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-   -   JET BLUE IS A SCAM (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/jetblue-trueblue/279604-jet-blue-scam.html)

Analise Nov 1, 2002 1:02 pm

This article below explains thoroughly why frequent flyer plans are becoming more and more of a scam themselves. So why again should I pay $2,000 more than I need to? I still haven't heard why.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">The Contrarian's Guide to Frequent-Travel Plans


BY JOE BRANCATELLI
October 31, 2002 -- Once upon a time--which was 1984, when a pair of unrestricted tickets to Hawaii cost 75,000 miles--your humble scribe produced the complete guide to frequent-flyer programs on just four magazine pages. All the rules, all the awards, all the charts, all the tricks, all in just four pages.

Of course, that was once upon a time, before affinity cards, long-distance partners, pages and pages of incomprehensible rules, hotel frequent-stay plans and the magical, mystical moment when loyalty programs morphed into general travel-marketing schemes. The programs today have spawned non-travel gamers, their own currencies and now aren't even directly tied to the needs and interests of their travel sponsors.

One thing hasn't changed in the intervening 18 years, however. I'm still a contrarian about frequent-travel plans. And long after I have ceded the knowledge of the minutiae of the programs to experts such as Randy Petersen and Tim Winship, I suggest the contrarian's view remains the best one.

So, for your edification and enlightenment, here is the current edition of The Contrarian's Guide to Frequent-Travel Plans.

YOU'RE PLAYING AN UNREGULATED LOTTERY
It really doesn't matter how rich a program seems to be or how well you've been rewarded in years past. This is undeniable: Playing the frequent-travel programs is the moral and financial equivalent of playing an unregulated lottery. The program sponsors--the airlines and hotels--are under no legal obligation to disclose the odds of winning. They don't even have to disclose whether the awards on their charts actually exist. They are not required to tell you how many--if any--seats or rooms are available on any given day. They reserve the right to change any rule at any time and usually without advance notice. They are the police, the judge, the jury and the executioner. And, with minor exceptions, the courts have upheld their right to be the masters of their own domains. In the very broadest sense of the term, they rig the game for their own benefit.

THE AIRLINES ARE NOT BANKS
Since the game is rigged, you'd be foolish to treat your frequent-travel accounts as the equivalent of a bank account. Since the airlines and hotels guarantee nothing and control the value and the distribution of the "currency," don't trust them with your miles and points. Don't "bank" miles or points. When you earn enough for an award, cash out as soon as you can. Or think about it this way: The airlines run lousy airlines, why do you think they could run a good bank? Frequent-travel miles and points only have value when you use them. Banking them and leaving them to the vagaries of the changes airlines or hotels may impose is bad planning.

ONLY UNRESTRICTED AWARD LEVELS MATTER
The experts say that more than nine of ten awards successfully cashed are claimed at the lower-priced "restricted" levels. That's fine. But if you're planning a dream vacation around earning enough miles or points to win a restricted award, then you're a fool. I have no sympathy for travelers who tell me the airlines or hotels are ripping them off because they can't claim a seat or a room on the day they want at the restricted level. That's why the awards are restricted. And remember, they are restricted in a game that is already unregulated and rigged. To me, the only "truth" is the unrestricted, supposedly no-strings-attached award levels. If you want a seat or a room on the day you want in the place you want, expect to pay the unrestricted price. If you score at the restricted level, consider it a miraculous bonus.</font>
http://www.zyworld.com/brancatelli/branc.htm




Far Siren Nov 1, 2002 4:01 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by odnyc:
When I call Jet Blue for the lowest fare it never seems to be available.

It takes quite a bit of nevre to quote fares in the hundreds of dollars for short hops and deny your customers the benefit of a real frequent flyer program.

jet Blue is one of the great marketing frauds ever- totally positive press; meanwhile, I hear many complaints about leg room, customer service etc.

Can't anyone out there break the total media halo given to this product?

I understand when once a year travellers but into this nonsense.

But what savvy frequent flyer would ever fly Jet Blue unless the price was literally rock bottom (By the way $100) to from NYC to Buffalo is hardly rock bottom. At that rate per mile, NY-LAX would be $2,000 and still no real, valuable frequent flyer program.

Please explain the mystery of Jet Blue.
</font>
Are you by any chance employed by Southwest?

Far Siren Nov 1, 2002 4:03 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by odnyc:
When I call Jet Blue for the lowest fare it never seems to be available.

It takes quite a bit of nevre to quote fares in the hundreds of dollars for short hops and deny your customers the benefit of a real frequent flyer program.

jet Blue is one of the great marketing frauds ever- totally positive press; meanwhile, I hear many complaints about leg room, customer service etc.

Can't anyone out there break the total media halo given to this product?

I understand when once a year travellers but into this nonsense.

But what savvy frequent flyer would ever fly Jet Blue unless the price was literally rock bottom (By the way $100) to from NYC to Buffalo is hardly rock bottom. At that rate per mile, NY-LAX would be $2,000 and still no real, valuable frequent flyer program.

Please explain the mystery of Jet Blue.
</font>
Are you by any chance employed by Southwest?

Analise Nov 4, 2002 8:26 am

Some scam....they are winning awards for being a low-cost airline giving top-knotch service. Oh my, I feel sooooooooooooo taken by this scam. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

"Cheap chic" ---- Great description!

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/021104/42121_1.html

glenngpr Nov 8, 2002 2:30 pm

I do not work for any airline..here is my opinion:

I've flown 2 RTs on JetBlue. One was RT JFK-SYR, the other RT was JFK-ONT. The flights upstate were fine; the cross-country flights were horrible. Leg room is non existant, the lure of the satellite TV wore off real quick, and the lack of meal service (or any type of service) on the flight added to the unending monotony.

Now, here's another perception. I frequently fly from NY to the Bay Area on business, and never, ever, did I have to fork over more money to fly American. The JFK-OAK flights regularly price lower than JB when I schedule flights. Plus, I can upgrade, and there's that little thing called AAdvantage that allows me to redeem miles worldwide.

Analise, it seems you're issue is CO, and JetBlue may be a better alternative for you.

But there are some who don't see JetBlue as the panacea they are portrayed to be.

AS Flyer Nov 8, 2002 3:12 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by glenngpr:
I do not work for any airline..here is my opinion:

I've flown 2 RTs on JetBlue. One was RT JFK-SYR, the other RT was JFK-ONT. The flights upstate were fine; the cross-country flights were horrible. Leg room is non existant, the lure of the satellite TV wore off real quick, and the lack of meal service (or any type of service) on the flight added to the unending monotony.

Now, here's another perception. I frequently fly from NY to the Bay Area on business, and never, ever, did I have to fork over more money to fly American. The JFK-OAK flights regularly price lower than JB when I schedule flights. Plus, I can upgrade, and there's that little thing called AAdvantage that allows me to redeem miles worldwide.

Analise, it seems you're issue is CO, and JetBlue may be a better alternative for you.

But there are some who don't see JetBlue as the panacea they are portrayed to be.
</font>
If you've been flying on AA between NYC and the bay area for any length of time, then you would know that fares were MUCH higher before Jet Blue entered the market. In fact, AA didn't even fly from JFK to OAK until Jet Blue started, and then it was only in retaliation for Jet Blue stealing much of their transcon business and lowering the yields on what business they could keep.

While you may not like Jet Blue, they are, in large part, responsible for those low fares you enjoy on AA. AA is only offering these low fares because Jet Blue has forced them to in order to remain in these markets. LAX-JFK and SFO-JFK were two of AA's premium markets, when Jet Blue started offering JFK-OAK/LGB flights they drove AA's yields on these routes into the basement. Prior to Jet Blue's entrance, if you had to buy a last minute ticket on any of the AA transcon flights from JFK to either SFO or LAX you could count on paying NO LESS than 1100.00 each way. If you had the luxury of buying your tickets in advance and non-refundable works for you then perhaps you were able to get some competitive deals.

[This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited 11-08-2002).]

MUC Flyer Nov 8, 2002 5:02 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AS Flyer:
While you may not like Jet Blue, they are, in large part, responsible for those low fares you enjoy on AA. [This message has been edited by AS Flyer (edited 11-08-2002).]</font>
largely? I'd say wholly - what/who else is repsonsible for this other than B6?

The other poster is right though about seat pitch. I have to believe that one reason AA/UA are reluctant to put seats back in Y is that they know that is one BIG (or 3 inch) reason that people are sticking with them.

I have read that Neelman is considering ripping a few rows out of his planes. I think he should do and raise fares slightly, a risky move I know but if you start an airline from scratch, you're a risk taker anyways.

glenngpr Nov 8, 2002 5:43 pm

Last month I flew to/from PHX (a non-JetBlue city) for business. Out and back the next day. RT Fare: $270 on AA. They were competing with HP, Frontier, and possibly WN. My point is that there has always been competiton in NY, going back to the days of People Distress...just have to know where to look. So JetBlue should not be credited with inventing low fare tickets. Yes, they are a factor in driving down prices.

I wish them well, do to competitive issues, they are my last alternative. Well, second to last...Southwest is still in the basement.

keithguy Nov 8, 2002 5:51 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AS Flyer:
...then it was only in retaliation for Jet Blue stealing much of their transcon business and lowering the yields on what business they could keep.</font>
How would you back-up this statement? Do you know the yields and loads for both AA and B6 on these two routes?

JFK-OAK
B6 runs 4 non-stops on A320s (162 seats each) daily
AA run 3 non-stops on 757s (176 seats each) in addition to 4 JFK-SFO non-stops on 767s and 1 JFK-SJC non-stop on a 757.

Capacity wise, AA has more than double the capacity for JFK-Bay area.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Prior to Jet Blue's entrance, if you had to buy a last minute ticket on any of the AA transcon flights from JFK to either SFO or LAX you could count on paying NO LESS than 1100.00 each way. If you had the luxury of buying your tickets in advance and non-refundable works for you then perhaps you were able to get some competitive deals.

</font>
Since JetBlue has entered the market, a walkup JFK-SFO Y26 full-fare is still $1128.37US each way. JetBlue has done nothing to change this.
Have you considered that AA's JFK-SFO/LAX trans-continental flights offer 3 class service, which may boost yield significantly?

MarineJourdan Nov 10, 2002 6:06 pm

About Jet Blue... All I have to speak about is my experiences... I love the leather seats, which are more comfortable than most carriers. I love the TV in every seat which makes the flight go faster... The flight attendants are actually nice, other airlines I have found some really nasty ones... The prices are not always better, some carriers offer better deals if you are a fare watcher... However, they do have good fares if not sometimes the best... I will choose the best fare since I refuse to pay some of these ridiculous prices that some will quote - I will always look at the Jet Blue website to see what they are offering and if they have a good fare - I'll take it...

Flyer Miles are not easy to use and I hope I can use the ones I am accumulating to spend a month in Hawaii... Hopefully it will not be too hard... If anyone knows about ways to use AA miles for that purpose - please let me know...

Jet Blue does a good job and not everything in life is perfect - you are free to choose what you wish and it is always something with one carrier or another...



------------------
Marine Jourdan
www.teamstarlight.com/marinejourdan

whlinder Nov 11, 2002 7:33 am

People must hate flying jetBlue... which is why their seats are only 81% full... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/021106/1225000712_1.html

Analise Nov 11, 2002 8:04 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by glenngpr:

Analise, it seems you're issue is CO, and JetBlue may be a better alternative for you.

But there are some who don't see JetBlue as the panacea they are portrayed to be.
</font>
All I can really compare my experiences to are with CO. I've flown AA but their MRTC seems to be the exact same room as CO. B6 is incredibly better than CO.

Each passenger has his/her own needs. I find airline food disgusting so to not have one served means nothing to me. I find the leather seats in my 5'8" frame to be very comfortable. I find that CO's upgrade policies are becoming more and more restrictive so what's the point of accruing elite status if CO keeps increasing the number of ERJs to their collection? There's no first-class there! On their cross-country flights, first class is almost non-existent for platinum elites. So for me, I compare coach to coach experiences. CO's coach is hell. JetBlue's coach is quite nice.

And I just love DirecTV! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

skofarrell Nov 11, 2002 7:45 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by kanebear:
People, does the word TROLL mean nothing to you??? Ignore them and they will crawl back under their rocks, I promise. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif</font>
Words of wisdom from the sage Meatman.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definit...213222,00.html

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited 11-11-2002).]

toadman Nov 12, 2002 8:59 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Analise:
All I can really compare my experiences to are with CO. I've flown AA but their MRTC seems to be the exact same room as CO. B6 is incredibly better than CO.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
</font>
What! CO has got some of the worst seat pitch in the industry. AA MRTC is almost like getting your own exit row seat. Maybe you ended up with an exit row seat on your CO flight and compared that to AA's MRTC. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


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