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[Agreement terminated March 2024] B6, NK agree to $3.8 billion merger

[Agreement terminated March 2024] B6, NK agree to $3.8 billion merger

Old Jul 29, 2022, 11:44 am
  #31  
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Do you think NK/B6 to move to another terminal? Gate change? Combined the ticket counter?

FLL

NK will relocate to T3. But they will keep concourse G gates.

PHX

B6/NK will stay at T3 and still in concourse F.

LAS

B6 will relocate to T1 from T3. It will combine.

LAX

B6/NK will stay at entire T5. No change.

ATL

B6 will relocate from concourse E gate to concourse D gate.

LGA

NK will relocate to new terminal B. NK Ticket counter will be moved.

Let the speculation begin!
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Old Jul 29, 2022, 6:45 pm
  #32  
 
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Spoke to someone who knows industry pretty well. He thinks both nea and merger will go through. Maybe nea will be slightly reduced. We will see

Secondly, JetBlue cannot possibly achieve nk level of unit cost. It's just not possible. As such, they will not densify seats and degrade service to nk level. They have to compete for higher revenue passengers to cover their higher costs. Now, I do think it is possible they find that the big seat model works well on nk and add something similar to non mint flights. We will see

I see e90s go away pretty quickly with a merger and a319 take over those Boston business markets.
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Old Jul 29, 2022, 7:05 pm
  #33  
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I keep forgetting they have A319s. It would be nice to have A319s on shuttles again. Throwback to US Airways

-J.
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Old Jul 30, 2022, 12:17 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by BearX220
North Dakota would like a word.

I believe NH is the only New England state B6 doesn't serve.
On everything I hold holy, I could have sworn that I wrote "the only state in New England".....

I feel like an idiot!
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Old Jul 30, 2022, 2:24 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by tphuang
Spoke to someone who knows industry pretty well. He thinks both nea and merger will go through. Maybe nea will be slightly reduced. We will see

Secondly, JetBlue cannot possibly achieve nk level of unit cost. It's just not possible. As such, they will not densify seats and degrade service to nk level. They have to compete for higher revenue passengers to cover their higher costs. Now, I do think it is possible they find that the big seat model works well on nk and add something similar to non mint flights. We will see

I see e90s go away pretty quickly with a merger and a319 take over those Boston business markets.
This is basically what B6 has been saying since this whole thing started. NK adds nothing to JFK and has a very small presence at LGA which itself is an airport dominated by the US3. A larger presence at EWR just provides more competition for the dominant carrier, UA. NK does not add much to BOS either. If more competition is what is being sought, having a strong counter to DL/UA provides that competition. It is also very limited. It is not like B6 will be jointly operating flights from DFW/CLT/MIA to the Midwest/West Coast/Europe/Asia etc on AA's behalf to add to AA's fortress hubs.

They also stated they are going after higher revenue not the lowest possible costs which is why they are using the B6 inflight product instead of the NK one. They have been successful at places like SFO/LAX because of Mint--not because they are offering more $39 fares from those airports.

The E90s were going away anyway and this gives them the opportunity to dump them more quickly which B6 has also stated. Depending upon what the economy looks like when the integration happens they have flexibility to ground some of the older owned aircraft at NK as well if needed.

A lot of the press coverage that this merger would be a huge hill to climb as far as regulatory approval goes was just talking points from F9. We saw how quickly the CEO of NK changed his tune on CNBC after F9 cancelled the merger agreement. LOL. If true competition were really what is wanted, then WN should give up gates at DAL; DL should contract at ATL/LGA, AA should give up slots at DCA and gates at DFW/CLT; UA should be forced to pull back at EWR/SFO/ORD to open up competition. That is highly unlikely to happen so there is really no basis to deny a merger to a combined carrier that won't be dominant at any airport.
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Old Jul 31, 2022, 6:27 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco
A lot of the press coverage that this merger would be a huge hill to climb as far as regulatory approval goes was just talking points from F9. We saw how quickly the CEO of NK changed his tune on CNBC after F9 cancelled the merger agreement. LOL. If true competition were really what is wanted, then...
A lot of the antitrust argument revolves around Florida, particularly MCO and FLL (maybe FLL/MIA). In FLL I think they would become the vastly dominant carrier, but probably still not as big as AA in MIA. In MCO they would be a lot bigger than they are now. That's what a lot of people are grumbling about -- nobody (other than JetBlue and Spirit) wants to see a new fortress hub in this day and age, especially not in huge O&D destinations like Orlando and SoFla.

-J.
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Old Jul 31, 2022, 9:11 am
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by GW McLintock
A lot of the antitrust argument revolves around Florida, particularly MCO and FLL (maybe FLL/MIA). In FLL I think they would become the vastly dominant carrier, but probably still not as big as AA in MIA. In MCO they would be a lot bigger than they are now. That's what a lot of people are grumbling about -- nobody (other than JetBlue and Spirit) wants to see a new fortress hub in this day and age, especially not in huge O&D destinations like Orlando and SoFla.

-J.
They can grumble all they want but B6 will still not be dominant in MCO or FLL. There are very few barriers to entry in MCO. In FLL, B6 has already said they are willing to give up gates--even though they would be nowhere near the dominant carrier there. So, again, at which airport will be B6 be anywhere close to AA's position in CLT or DL's position in ATL or hogging the vast majority of slots at LGA/DCA like the US3? Unless the market radically changes and one of the US3 disappears or airport resources at gate/slot restricted airports are more fairly distributed, there is very little to grumble about. Now if DL/AS merged, SEA residents would be well served to grumble as a huge percentage of flights would be operated by one carrier. In this case, there are none of those issues.
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Old Aug 1, 2022, 6:33 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco
This is basically what B6 has been saying since this whole thing started. NK adds nothing to JFK and has a very small presence at LGA which itself is an airport dominated by the US3. A larger presence at EWR just provides more competition for the dominant carrier, UA. NK does not add much to BOS either. If more competition is what is being sought, having a strong counter to DL/UA provides that competition.
Originally Posted by sfozrhfco
They can grumble all they want but B6 will still not be dominant in MCO or FLL. There are very few barriers to entry in MCO. In FLL, B6 has already said they are willing to give up gates--even though they would be nowhere near the dominant carrier there.
So, does B6 get through regulatory approvals (and settle the current lawsuit) by perhaps simply agreeing to dismantle the most anti-competitive elements of the NEA and give up some real estate at a few airports?

May be a mix of:
  • Ending slot sharing (which would force AA to compete or relinquish its NYC slots to another, presumably low-cost, competitior).
  • Ending schedule coordination with AA
  • Ending code-shares on all or some (i.e., Florida, California) routes
  • Ceding some gates at LGA/FLL/LAX to ULCCs

In the end, I suspect B6 will be able to retain its frequent flyer partnership with AA, which gets B6 most of what it needs. It's possible AA might be able to strike a deal to permanently sell some of its slots to B6 and give up others to ULCC competitors if AA decides to throw in the towel in the NYC market. But, I expect AA will make the decision to fight at least one more major battle for NYC relevance with whatever assets they're left with coming out of the B6-NK tie-up.


-

Last edited by NYC Flyer; Aug 1, 2022 at 6:34 am Reason: clarif
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Old Sep 27, 2022, 8:18 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by BearX220
North Dakota would like a word.

I believe NH is the only New England state B6 doesn't serve.
More less the same for MSP............B6 has been in MSP Terminal 2 for 5 years now and I believe they only fly to and from Boston and JFK out of MSP

I grabbed the 80K mile Jet Blue card today figuring routes to/from MSP will be expanded in the near future.
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Old Sep 27, 2022, 8:29 pm
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by N830MH
Do you think NK/B6 to move to another terminal? Gate change? Combined the ticket counter?

FLL

NK will relocate to T3. But they will keep concourse G gates.

PHX

B6/NK will stay at T3 and still in concourse F.

LAS

B6 will relocate to T1 from T3. It will combine.

LAX

B6/NK will stay at entire T5. No change.

ATL

B6 will relocate from concourse E gate to concourse D gate.

LGA

NK will relocate to new terminal B. NK Ticket counter will be moved.

Let the speculation begin!
How about MSP, NK is in Terminal 1 and B6 in T2. NK has a lot more flights at MSP than B6 , I would love to see them stay in T2 but my guess is probably not.
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Old Oct 28, 2022, 9:50 am
  #41  
 
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Deleted...forgot to reply i post

Last edited by MilesPointsCollector; Oct 28, 2022 at 9:52 am Reason: didn't attach to quote
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Old Oct 28, 2022, 10:00 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by GW McLintock
As I shared in the speculative thread, JetBlue has a new landing page for merger information: https://lowfaresgreatservice.com/

-J.
Can you share a link to the speculative thread you mention above? I think there is value (for some) in continuing a thread on how to play the merry-go-round of status: Mosaic to Free Spirit then back to Mosaic in '24/25 through status matches/ credit card spend etc. I'm at the point where the only airline loyalty programs that interests me are the ones I can obtain by a reasonable amt of annual spend while minimizing butt in seat. (I define reasonable cr card spend as ~$50K/yr) Regarding the merger overall...I'm a JB loyalist, though Mosaic is much less valuable in '22 than 5 yrs ago. Based in S FL the short-term net effect will likely be positive for me personally.. Everyone on FT knows, however, that the long-term cumulative effect of these mergers is almost always a net negative for the masses when you take all factors into account (devalued loyalty programs, less consumer choice in airfare etc)
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Old Oct 28, 2022, 10:50 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by mm93991
Can you share a link to the speculative thread you mention above? I think there is value (for some) in continuing a thread on how to play the merry-go-round of status: Mosaic to Free Spirit then back to Mosaic in '24/25 through status matches/ credit card spend etc. I'm at the point where the only airline loyalty programs that interests me are the ones I can obtain by a reasonable amt of annual spend while minimizing butt in seat. (I define reasonable cr card spend as ~$50K/yr) Regarding the merger overall...I'm a JB loyalist, though Mosaic is much less valuable in '22 than 5 yrs ago. Based in S FL the short-term net effect will likely be positive for me personally.. Everyone on FT knows, however, that the long-term cumulative effect of these mergers is almost always a net negative for the masses when you take all factors into account (devalued loyalty programs, less consumer choice in airfare etc)
The post you are quoting is from July. I honestly don't remember where the thread is, but I'm guessing it was on the Spirit (or maybe Frontier) forum. It may have been merged or moved as I can't find it.

Ever since JetBlue's reliability plummeted Mosaic has never caught my attention. Benefits are great but what good is it if they can't get you to your destination on time? I haven't flown JB on cash since 2019 and I don't miss it; in fact, I will be sad to see Spirit get absorbed by them, should this all go through. As a frequent traveler, I want this all to fail... but as a JBLU shareholder, I *really* need this to work out.

-J.
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Old Feb 10, 2023, 8:42 pm
  #44  
 
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Biden administration moving toward blocking JetBlue-Spirit merger

Via Politico, February 10, 2023 (I can't post links yet):

"The Justice Department is likely to sue to block a pending $3.8 billion merger between JetBlue and Spirit airlines, five people with knowledge of the matter told POLITICO."

"Even without Bidens increased emphasis on promoting competition, the JetBlue-Spirit tie-up would probably draw scrutiny in any administration, according to antitrust experts."

"The companies are arguing in part that in a highly concentrated market that exists due to past DOJ antitrust decisions, the only way to move forward is to be bigger. That argument is not expected to persuade DOJ lawyers, despite acknowledging that past federal decisions contributed to the current merger plans."
Adding article cdate

Last edited by hiker67; Feb 10, 2023 at 8:48 pm Reason: Added article date
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Old Feb 23, 2023, 7:30 pm
  #45  
 
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