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Old Aug 1, 2009 | 8:52 am
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Tokyo Metro Arbitrage

Today, I realized that the Tokyo Metro fare from Tokyo station (Marunouchi line) to Omotesando (via Akasaka Mitsuke and changing to the Ginza line) is 190 yen, but the fare from Otemachi (one stop further away on the Marunouchi line) to Omotesando is 160 yen.

The reason (I assume) is that one can go from Otemachi to Omotesando via the more direct Chiyoda line, but still one can walk from Tokyo station to Otemachi and save 30 yen. Better yet, walk from Tokyo station to Nijubashimae (a short walk along the underground passageway between the two Marubiru) and take the Chiyoda line from there. Quicker and cheaper.

Any other examples of such arbitrage?
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Old Aug 3, 2009 | 9:44 pm
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The fares are all distance-based and based on the most direct routing, so this sort of thing would happen in many instances where you are taking the long way around a more direct route. For example, you could take the Marunouchi Line from Shinjuku-sanchome to Ikebukuro for less than it would cost to go from a "closer" station to Ikebukuro, because the system assumes you are using the much more direct Fukutoshin Line.

Speaking of fare oddities on Metro, how about the segment between Kita-Senju and Ayase on the north end of the Chiyoda Line? It can be treated as either a Tokyo Metro segment or as a JR segment for pricing purposes depending on where you go at either end. If you start at Ayase (or come in from the Joban Line), go to Kita-Senju and immediately change to the Joban rapid line to Ueno, it gets counted as a JR segment, but if you come in from Kita-Ayase and change to Joban rapid at Kita-Senju, it gets counted as a Metro segment along with the Kita-Ayase to Ayase sector.

A similar rule applies between Shirokane-Takanawa and Meguro because the system has no way to tell whether you took the Metro Namboku Line or the Toei Mita Line. Instead, the system decides which train you probably took based on the routing at either end of the trip. (I think it also assumes you took Metro if you are only riding between Shirokane-Takanawa and Meguro, because Metro is cheaper.)
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 4:12 am
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There's also some possible gamesmanship at Nakano station since it is served by both metro and JR. With many thousands of possible combinations, there's bound to be some anamolies.
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 7:43 am
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Originally Posted by RichardInSF
there's bound to be some anamolies.
I think the anamoles were all chased out of the tunnels by the first trains. They're nervous critters. However, I think there are a few resilient jalbadgers down there to this day.
(Sorry - there's nothing like a good pun. And that was nothing like a good pun)

On a serious note - This sort of information must be like gold dust for the folks who get their monthly commuter pass paid by their companies.
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 8:04 am
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Originally Posted by jib71
I think the anamoles were all chased out of the tunnels by the first trains. They're nervous critters. However, I think there are a few resilient jalbadgers down there to this day.
(Sorry - there's nothing like a good pun. And that was nothing like a good pun)

On a serious note - This sort of information must be like gold dust for the folks who get their monthly commuter pass paid by their companies.
But do those people get money out of these ? I suspect their monthly pass are invoice based and without invoice you probably hard to refund the origional pass?
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 8:07 am
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Originally Posted by jib71
On a serious note - This sort of information must be like gold dust for the folks who get their monthly commuter pass paid by their companies.
Of course there is the classic kiseru move, where one uses the commuting pass to enter the JR or metro network and use a kaisuuken (11 for the price of 10!) to get out.

Don't know if it works anymore with the system being more sophisticated, but for a long time the exit wickets could not read whether the kaisuuken had been used to enter the kaisuuken area, and the commuter passes could be used to enter twice, so it worked like a charm.
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 8:44 am
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You didn't mention my favorite: buy a "Tokunai free" ticket for Y730 that allows unlimited use of JR in and around the central Tokyo area. Use it to go in and show it when you exit at, say, Odawara, paying the difference in fare but keeping the ticket.

Then to return from Odawara, buy a minimum price ticket and use the Tokunai Free to exit in Tokyo.

I'm sure this is not allowed, but the system isn't sophisticated enough to check -- and even if it does, your Tokunai free shows an entry with no exit because when exiting at (say) Odawara, the ticket agent never gets his mitts on the ticket to indicate an exit.
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 8:48 am
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Originally Posted by RichardInSF
You didn't mention my favorite: buy a "Tokunai free" ticket for Y730 that allows unlimited use of JR in and around the central Tokyo area. Use it to go in and show it when you exit at, say, Odawara, paying the difference in fare but keeping the ticket.

Then to return from Odawara, buy a minimum price ticket and use the Tokunai Free to exit in Tokyo.

I'm sure this is not allowed, but the system isn't sophisticated enough to check -- and even if it does, your Tokunai free shows an entry with no exit because when exiting at (say) Odawara, the ticket agent never gets his mitts on the ticket to indicate an exit.
Right, this is the kiseru move. Say your commuter pass is to go between Yokohama and Kawasaki. Use your pass to get in at Yokohama, and use the kaisuuken to get out somewhere in the Yamanote. On the way back, use the kaisuuken to enter the Yamanote and use your pass to get out at Yokohama. Clearly theft of service, but we're not discussing the legality/morality of this, just looking for the arbitrage.
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 8:56 am
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Originally Posted by ChrisLi
But do those people get money out of these ? I suspect their monthly pass are invoice based and without invoice you probably hard to refund the origional pass?
IME, the employee provides a home address and commute route to the company's payroll dept. The folks in HR check this route with google or navitime to make sure it's a sensible route from the employee's home. And they verify the monthly commuter pass fee. And then the employee gets the money added to the monthly salary payment. No further questions asked.

There's money to be made. Perhaps it's not a fortune, but for an underpaid new recruit, it could make a significant difference over the course of a year.

Now ... that's based on my experience at three relatively small firms. Maybe other firms have more stringent checks to catch fraudsters.
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 9:03 am
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Here's my Kansai tidbit. I honestly don't like JR in Kansai. The loop line is generally inconvenient, the Hanwa line is always late (I had it once where some guy hit a train bridge with a truck so they canceled everything down to Kansai airport/Wakayama except the Haruka and regular (not express) trains), and JR is generally expensive.

If you take the loop line outside Osaka (IIRC the line is around Nishinomiya if you're going west and Ibaraki if you're going to Kyoto), the train fares get really expensive. It is cheaper to just take the loop line to Osaka, leave the station, then enter again, then go to Kyoto or Kobe (for example) than it would be to just take the train and transfer at Osaka station. It's true for any loop line station.

Here's what Yahoo says.
Tennoji - Kyoto - 890 yen
Tennoji - Osaka - 190 yen
Osaka - Kyoto - 540 yen
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 10:47 am
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For a while back in the 1970s, there was a scheme using platform tickets.

Person A in Tokyo and Person B in Kyoto (or any other distant destination) would each buy a platform ticket (intended for people who were seeing someone off or helping with luggage). Person A would leave first, and ride to Kyoto, sitting in jiyuuseki and hiding out in the toilet when the conductor came through to check tickets.

At Kyoto Station, Person A and Person B would exchange platform tickets. Person A would exit Kyoto Station using Person B's platform ticket. Person B would board the next Shinkansen for Tokyo, also sitting in jiyuuseki and evading the conductor. Upon arrival in Tokyo, Person B would use Person A's platform ticket to exit Tokyo Station.

Eventually, the then-JNR caught wind of this scheme and without any public announcement started putting time stamps on platform tickets and instructing the ticket takers (this was before mechanization) to look at the time stamps on all platform tickets that came through.

People who came through the turnstile after apparently having spent seven hours on the platform were pulled aside, questioned, and fined heavily, and that was the end of that scheme.
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 11:18 am
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Originally Posted by ksandness
Eventually, the then-JNR caught wind of this scheme and without any public announcement started putting time stamps on platform tickets and instructing the ticket takers (this was before mechanization) to look at the time stamps on all platform tickets that came through.
Then now most of the JR stations set 2 hours as the maximum time for a single platform ticket.

Originally Posted by Pickles
Right, this is the kiseru move.
May I talk about why that is called kiseru ?

Kiseru is a Japanese old style smoking pipe.
http://www.jti.co.jp/sstyle/trivia/k...es/02_img2.jpg

At both ends kiseru has metal(金 かね) on it. But in the middle there is no metal.

When someone does kiseru, he pays money (金 かね) only for both ends of his travel. He doesn't pay for the middle section.

These two have something in common. So this is why.

Last edited by O Sora; Aug 4, 2009 at 11:40 am
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Old Aug 4, 2009 | 6:34 pm
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I work in the cluster of office buildings between Uchisaiwaicho (Toei) and Kasumigaseki (Metro). I know a number of people who tell their company they are buying a Toei commuter pass, which is more expensive, and then buy a less expensive Metro commuter pass with the money.

This sort of thing is also really common in northern Kansai, when you generally have a choice of three commuter lines (JR, Hankyu, and either Hanshin or Keihan) to get to Osaka. Hankyu is significantly cheaper, so many people will claim to ride JR, commute on Hankyu and pocket the difference. If you're REALLY lucky, you can add in a fake monorail segment somewhere.
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Old Aug 5, 2009 | 4:38 pm
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I don't know about elsewhere, but some of this might not work anymore. As mentioned JR sets a limit of about 2 or so hours.

For example if you use your say suica commuter pass to enter Yokohama and exit using a another ticket or pass at another location (so your suica commuter pass never shows an exit) then you try to return to your ORIGIN station (eg Yokohama) after a few hours the alarms will sound and the gates will shut. My friend tried doing this, using their pass to enter their home station, then they went to another station exiting using another ticket, but on their return about 3 hours later, while trying to exit their origin station the alarm sounded, and since my friend isn't a good liar almost got into big trouble, they just paid 2x the price of the fare.

Any case it has happened to me as well but I never left the system, got on one day to ride trains for about 6 hours, tried to exit again at my home station and got all the buzzes and whistles.

But as for the Tokyo Metro fare, yes, it just assumes you will take the most direct route and charges it. Other times there are special fare routes where it will be cheaper or more expensive then normal depending on competition with other railway companies. For example, JR has special pricing between Shinagawa and Yokohama (if I recall) because Keikyu trains also run that route.
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Old Aug 6, 2009 | 12:04 pm
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I used a Suica getting to Tokyo Stn then used a N'EX ticket to get to NRT. The Suica didn't work next time went to use it a few months later. Had to fix it at a JR East counter. Even the HND Monorail counter cannot fix it.
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