If asking this to a kilt-wearing Scotsman, his answer might be "nae, maam, it's as good as it e'er was." But because this is the Japan forum, I'm asking about Yukata etiquette at a ryokan.

So what is appropriate underneath when wearing the Yukata in public areas of the ryokan (esp upscale ones)? Are sweats too informal? How bout a t-shirt and gym shorts?

Also, if the ryokan serves dinner in a dining room rather than in your room, what is appropriate dinner attire then? I'm headed to Hoshinoya later this summer, then Gora Kadan a while after that, and I'd like to limit the extent to which I cause uncontrolled laughter.

You wear it to dinner - that question solved. Wikipedia says so.

"One-Piece Hada-Juban for Yukata

This is worn over your underwear to prevent the yukata from sticking to your skin, and though I went years without bothering to wear one, it is much cooler if you do. The best is a 100% percent cotton or linen full-body shift. Avoid ones with a polyester skirt. Sales assistants will try to talk you into a large size if you are a gaijin to move the merchandise, but unless you are large, get the medium because the extra material of the skirt will make it hard to walk because it tangles around your legs. Appropriate underwear is a sports bra and panties for a woman and V-neck T-shirt and boxers for a man; men do not need a hada-juban."

http://blog.livedoor.jp/auberginefle.../50997880.html

There ya go.

Auberginefleur- a kimono enthusiast - is refering to the underwear for 'real' yukata, worn at firework displays, matsuri, and during the summer months.

These are not the same as the yukata worn in inns.

Whilst I could happily go into a long post about suitable underwear for yukata (and it would be a very long one) there is no need here.

Inn style yukata robes:

As these do flap open if walked in with long strides, some underwear is very much advised.

Wear any kind of underpants you wish, boxer shorts are fine. A lady conscious of her modesty might like to take a knee-length petticoat, but this isn't necessary, if they do feel unsure, a lady only needs to take smaller steps, optimally with the toes pointing inwards, and the yukata edges will remain together.

Again, if you prefer to wear something on your chest, a vest or v-neck t-shirt will do.

And, as any guide to inn etiquette will tell you, wrap the edge by your right hand over your torso first, then wrap the side by your left hand over this before securing with the belt around your waist. (right over left is how the dead are dressed)

I have a (female) Japanese friend who insists that it is in fact not necessary to wear any sort of underwear under a yukata, and that traditionally, this was not done. A quick Google indicates that opinions on this seem to vary.

In any case, I certainly wouldn't worry about wearing one with your usual underwear, if that is what you were concerned about. Sweats/gym shorts would definitely be a bit excessive, though.

Let's hope that your friend is never faced with the need to jump from the window of a blazing department store:
http://www.east-asian-history.net/te...J/ch4_main.htm
(See the section on Policing Private Life: Campaigns for Underwear and Against Sheer Clothing)

What was your female friend actually referring to when she discussed yukata with you?

This thread isn't even about what I consider to be yukata at all, everyone has ignored that the cotton robes you are given at a ryokan are an entirely different piece of clothing to what any googling or research will come up with searching for information about yukata.

I don't think there is any real debate about modern underwear not being traditional, of course it isn't, but then knickers/panties are a modern innovation in the West also. When ladies wear Victorian wedding gowns or Renaissance garb, few, if any, wear all the traditional undergarments either.

But again, I stress that a real yukata is a different item of clothing than the dressing gown style yukata you get at an inn.

I would be totally at ease wearing a real yukata without a thread of underwear. As a curvy Caucasian without a bra to flatten me, or a few tenugui towels around my waist to pad it out it wouldn't look that good, but a real yukata in my own size has ample material which folds over to effectively make a skirt and blouse and is tied with at least 3 separate belts. Unless I was going up a ladder or jumping from a burning building I would have no fears for my modesty. (I wouldn't waive my arms around either as a female yukata has large openings at the arm pits)
And there are different kinds of underwear relating to a real yukata, there's the corsetry I mentioned (also used by many modern Japanese women), panties/knickers are used for the same reasons that they are everywhere else, there's the underwear worn to protect the yukata from sweat (often these items are made from cotton gauze - they also feel fresher against the skin), and there are other items of underwear worn to make the garment easier to wear and move in. None of them are strictly necessary, but there are good reasons why they are preferred this century.


A ryokan robe 'yukata' - the item of clothing actually under discussion in this thread - is not something I would recommend that anybody wear in Public without underwear. Not unless you are thin and lacking in curves and willing to take dainty steps and at no point separate your legs whilst sitting. Since the whole purpose of going to a Ryokan is to relax, underwear will help you, and your fellow guests, achieve this. No nasty surprises for anybody.

May I add that the yukata-style bathrobe things for sale in the kimono departments of department stores or in gaijin-oriented souvenir shops are actually called nemaki and are what people used to wear to bed. I use a nemaki as a summer bathrobe, and it's perfectly appropriate, since the Midwest, like Japan, is humid in the summer.

A real yukata is what you see young women going around in during O-Bon. The obi is a lot simpler than the one for a full-fledged kimono, but it's more substantial than the simple fabric tie used for a nemaki.

I once stayed in a rooming house in Kyoto, and a young Japanese woman who was also staying there was surprised to see me going to the shower in my nemaki. She remarked that only old people wore those. I told her that she was missing something. Made of gauzy cotton and equipped with holes at the armpits, nemaki are perfect for hot humid weather. She was unconvinced, but then, nemaki don't have "old lady" connotations for me.

That's it!

I knew you'd mentioned it here before, but for the life of me couldn't remember what a nemaki was called.

Aubergine Fleur herself replies!

Thank you for linking to my blog. Since then, I have added many more posts on yukata. Related to this thread:


AF Answers: Yukata Underwear: Necessity, Or Not? Do you have to wear underwear with yukata?
http://blog.livedoor.jp/auberginefle.../51885528.html


What�s the Difference Between Yukata and Kimono
http://blog.livedoor.jp/auberginefle.../51574494.html

- AF

Hi Aubergine Fleur and welcome to the forum!

Unfortunately, your link hasn't really helped as the question wasn't about the yukata you and I wear and consider to be yukata. The question is about the onemaki gowns given to guests at inns and some hotels.

Do you have anything in your website relating to this style of garment?

Doesn't the blog post below address hotel and inn yukata?

Yukata Underwear: Necessity, Or Not? Do you have to wear underwear with yukata?
http://blog.livedoor.jp/auberginefle.../51885528.html

Under the headings:

1) Are you wearing your yukata as a bathrobe or sleepwear at home or alone in a hotel room?

2) Are you wearing your yukata at an Inn or Onsen spa around other people?

Both of the photos are of ladies wearing yukata with hanhaba obi belts and ohashori folds.

When I started to learn about kimono and yukata and searched on the web (to find resources such as your blog) this is exactly the kind of information that would confuse me. I have seen numerous posts in this forum (not just in this thread) that demonstrate that many people are still confused about how to wear ryokan yukata or don't understand how they are different from the kind of yukata worn at fireworks displays, matsuri, obon and other events and occasion.

Nobody can look as well groomed as the ladies in the photos in the two Q&As from your blog by wearing the kind of short yukata and thin belt supplied by most hotels and ryokan. It took me a while to understand why.

A t-shirt and gym shorts should be perfectly fine under a yukata worn at a Ryokan, even in public areas. But, do tie your yukata so that it does not come open inadvertently. If the ryokan is cold, sweatpants could possibly be worn for your own comfort.

Anyway, how did it work out for you? Did you have a good visit?


http://blog.livedoor.jp/auberginefle.../51885528.html

Here's a picture of me in a Ryokan yukata at a Ryokan (scroll down).
http://blog.livedoor.jp/auberginefle.../51964713.html

Here's a picture of me in yukata sleepwear at home (scroll down for blue yukata)
http://blog.livedoor.jp/auberginefle.../51959440.html

Unless you routinely sit (and rise!) in seiza while wearing a constricting skirt, I'd advise wearing under garments with a ryokan yukata. Some ryokans serve dinner in banquet halls where you sit on tatami mats. Western female travelers beware the seiza and take your time getting in and more importantly out.

In my experience, the procedure usually goes this way:
1. Try to kneel while edging up to a tray holding dishes that are quite expensive, some lit on fire, and in a nation that does not acknowledge the three second rule.
2. Give up trying to kneel while tottering and just slowly edge into a slightly gracious cross legged bend and rearrange legs properly. Try not to flash people.
3. Maintain for a while until legs fall numb or pain sets in. Try not to be distracted from food by pain in legs slowly falling asleep.
4. Attempt not to flash anyone or spill dishes while I scoot very numb legs towards the front. Unladylike but I'm probably not the first to cave in. This is usually difficult as once you move, you regain sensation in the limbs.
5. Arrange legs sticking straight out in front. Come to realize this will also hurt in a while. Wonder how many more courses of kaiseki there are.
6. Surreptitiously re-tuck yukata on top as I've probably tied the belt incorrectly. Again.
7. Eating finally over, attempt to rise and flee the upcoming karaoke as fast as possible. This may take longer if you're not willing to be the first one to leave. Ignore any popping sounds from joints or limping, especially if demonstrated by others.

If you are unlucky, you will meet someone who isn't wearing underwear and you'll notice it while dining. And it will be the man who can't sit cross legged, legs forward, or anything remotely decorous for sitting on a floor. And his top will gape. Then if you're seriously unlucky, he'll also have his yukata on the wrong way, have worn the toilet slippers to the dining hall, and is tone deaf. You do not want to be "that person".

Granted most individual travelers probably don't have a group kaiseki experience followed by karaoke... But just in case...

All this aside, the food is totally worth it. I enjoy the experience even with numb legs. You can always check pictures of the dining hall to see if there will be a small pit for your legs or if chairs are used. It helps to have the chair backs on tatami mats, too. Some mega ryokans have pretty good buffets/'vikings' for dinner which don't involve the tatami experience. Still advisable to wear ryokan with undergarments and the proper foot wear. Going to a ryokan buffet in western dress is unusual, in my experience.