Observations
 

This was our 4th trip to Japan, all the trips have been 3 day stopovers. Every trip has been wonderful. Maybe we were more observant this visit than on other visits.

We stayed at a 5* deluxe property(FHR) and we were very surprised that on 1 occasion the room service girl came to our room in her stocking feet. We have stayed in hotels all over Asia and have never encountered this before. This is something we would have expected at a traditional Japanese hotel.

On our way back to the airport we used a car from the hotel. Our driver was in a hurry and got up to speeds of 160kph. We were not late, in fact we left the hotel 4.5 hours before flight departure. Aren't the penalties for speeding in Japan quite stiff? Anyway we found this strange.

We also noticed ( for the first time) that some people in the service industry seemed to be expecting tips. 2 or 3 times we had people who seemed to hover and look disappointed as if they were expecting a tip. We had a 6 hour private tour with one fellow and at the end of the tour we thanked him profusely and presented him with a nicely wrapped gift. Suddenly this fellow went from being quite affable to being quite cold and stone-faced, the smile literally left his face, we felt like we had done something wrong. Is the custom of tipping slowly entering Japanese society?

Anyway, Japan is a great country and next trip it will be our final destination

Do you mean that the "room service girl came to our room in her stocking feet" or that she came INTO your room in her stockinged feet?

I was at the Osaka Sheraton Miyako last week (which barely makes it as a 4 star) and requested an iron. When a member of staff came to collect it he'd slipped off his shoes at the threshold and entered my room in stockinged feet. I usually slip off my shoes at the door and don a pair of slippers so this feels absolutely 'right' to me.

I don't drive so I've only been on expressways a few times. It's rare, on a bus or in a car to have the driver stay inside the speed limit.
Here's a web page describing the fines and penalty points system: http://www.thejapanfaq.com/bikerfaq-signs.html

I've only seen people 'expecting' tips at the Tobu Narita Holiday Inn, and not from me.
In fact no-one has ever given me the impression that they were hoping from a tip from me, certainly not when I've been with my Japanese husband and never when I've been alone either...

Except from some deer I fed in Nara recently. Once I'd started feeding a couple of them they began bowing to me, naturally, this made me continue to feed them a bit longer than I perhaps would have ordinarily. I also noticed that some of the younger deer were picking up on this tactic.

Tipping isn't actually alien to the Japanese culture at all, there is a tradition for this on the higher end of some of the Service Industries. Japan Forum regulars occasionally express their views on tipping the doctor, teacher or the upscale Ryokan. Not that many of us take on the services of a guide for 6 hours, and having seen the tariffs of bilingual guides recommended by the Japan Tourist Board, I would not feel moved to provide an additional tip.

I can assure you that those of us who travel to Japan using more modest service industries are rarely if ever approached for or bullied into giving tips.

It's possible that the luxury travel service providers are accustomed to international visitors who automatically tip without thinking and are therefore disappointed when someone breaks the pattern.

I've traveled in Japan only at the levels from youth hostel to higher grade business hotel, and at those levels, no one expects a tip.

Just some related observations from our trip last month...
I really found it somewhat disconcerting how fast some cars zipped (eg. some over >50km/hr?) through narrow-ish corridors (without sidewalks) that were shared with pedestrians.

Felt the reflex to tip numerous times because the service was so great nearly everywhere we went. The gifts we presented the odd times seemed to be quite well received (though we tried to limit ourselves to budget establishments).

I think you need to tell us who that private guide was that gave you the cold stare so we can all avoid him/her in the future. That is unacceptable behavior for Japan.

Also, you need to email the hotel about the driver who got up to 160km/hr on the expressway to Narita. It is true that Japanese speed limits are so low (max 90kph on a wide open freeway) that people generally break the limits -- but not by that much, which is dangerous on that road. That driver endangered you and should not be in service to a luxury hotel.

Is the OP certain the speed was 160 kph? Some speeding is pretty normal but that is almost 100 mph and would be very unusual IME. I agree that the hotel should be made aware of it - if you are sure of the speed.

I also think that some of the very highest end services have probably become somewhat accustomed to automatic tipping by clueless westerners. It doesn't take much to move from "accustomed" to "entitled," which is why so many areas that do not value tiping are so strident about avoiding it. That sense of entitlement can be very hard to reverse once the "apple" has been tasted.

Of course, when you stay at cheap business hotels and dine at cheap neighborhood pubs and itzakayas like I do, you don't ever have the issue come up. :D And you often get better food in the bargain.

When we first got into the car we noticed he was driving quite rough on the streets near the hotel. When we finally got onto the highway we noticed he was passing most cars so I tried to determine what the speed limit was, I saw an illuminated red sign on the side of the road that read '80', I looked at his speedometer and it read '110'. After a while I realized he was passing everyone and I looked at the speedometer and it read '160'. He was not doing 160kph the whole time, just short bursts. Of course it's hard to read a speedometer accurately from the backseat, so let's just say I know he was speeding because he was passing every car on the road. Traffic really was not that heavy. I should also say that every other time we traveled to/from Narita the driver followed the speed limit. From what we've heard, the police aren't that concerned with speeders, it's drunken drivers they're looking for.

The room service woman came into the room.

I checked the Amex FHR list for Tokyo since you seem determined not to name names. There are 7 hotels on the list: FS Chinzan-so, RC, MO, Conrad, Seiyo Ginza (Rosewood), Pen, and PHT. I am confident that the management at ANY of these hotels would really appreciate it if you reported the driver's behavior to them.

If the hotel you stayed at was the PHT, and you would rather remain anonymous, PM me and I'll tell management personally on your behalf when I aarrive there in two weeks. If it was the Pen, I can also help as I can email the GM, who I know, on your behalf.

So she ditched the shoes she was wearing in the hallway at the doorway to your own room?

This is quite common, and often you'll see the maids wearing slippers. The underlying motive is that the room is your 'home' and it would be entirely natural and expected for a Japanese person to remove their shoes when entering another person's home.

Consider how rude it would be for hotel staff to walk into a room in their shoes when the hotel guests have taken pains not to.

Once you've adapted to the mindset of shoes off at the front door you start to see the habit of wearing outdoor shoes inside as being a bit disgusting. I don't even like to trundle a roller case over a room I'm staying in for similar reasons.

I always carry a set of indoor wheels for this purpose.

I think your complaint about the driving at 160km/hour is the biggest complaint and worry I would have. That's unacceptable. I drive almost as fast as that at times on the highways in the States but not when I have valuable passengers in the car.

But, overall, I'm hesitant to wonder if these complaints are Japan-specific? You will only travel to Japan one more time as a result of these complaints? A taxi driver going too fast/driving too rough and people expecting tips are not surprising complaints in any country. Chinese or Indian traffic was more scary than anything in Japan to me. If you don't want to tip, don't sweat it, I think. But if you want to tip, and give a gift instead, I don't know how good that is. Nothing is better than cash money! My friend's mom (who is Japanese) leaves a tip for housekeeping every time she stays at a hotel.

Which leads me to a general remark about gifts/presents to the Japanese. A lot of the presents I'm sure are great, but much of the time Japanese people FAKE it really good, as if they like it, much better than us Americans that's for sure. So, gifts are not equal to cash money! If you want to tip, give cash, not a gift. How many tourists give gifts as a replacement for tips, do you think? If you're a tour guide, how many gifts from Americans or foreigners do you want?

Not sure about you, but I'm not passing up (for one example) matsuzakagyuu or any of the nice Japanese beef and live the rest of my life with the crappy "U.S. kobe beef" just because I had a bad taxi driver in Japan. You shouldn't either!

I think you forgot to connect your parsing engine and contextualizer to your brain before opening your mouth.

Opening my mouth on an internet message board is a first for me, that's for sure!

I hate it when that happens. Most of the time my parser is off just long enough for my parambulation phalanges to be inserted into the mouth. :)

It's a shame I know you're joking, I love this concept!

Hmmm....

I interpreted this to mean that ChickenOrMeat is considering a trip with Japan as the main feature rather than it being just a stopover.

... but you're right. It probably means that he plans to come here to die.

Can't think why...

Part of me is laughing, a much larger part is cringing tightly and painfully into a ball.

No doubt, it's already Friday evening in Japan.

I love you folks...........:cool:

Enola Gay, you should have stayed at home yesterday
Aha words can't describe the feeling and the way you lied

These games you play, they're gonna end in more than tears someday
Aha Enola Gay, it shouldn't ever have to end this way

It's 8:15, and that's the time that it's always been
We got your message on the radio, conditions normal and you're coming home

Enola Gay, is mother proud of little boy today
Aha this kiss you give, it's never ever gonna fade away

Right, and because of your astute observational skills, you know that the op is MALE, as well. How do you know the op is male?

I made a misinterpretation and I often mistype, so you got me there. You're not free of imperfections either though buddy.

I made no assumption about the sex of the OP.

The personal pronoun "he" is the defauilt in the absence of any evidence of the subject's sex.

Frankly, his sex has no bearing on the matter - Why do you think it's important?

:rolleyes:

PM your address. I'll send you some cash!

(No, really. I mean it. I've got a 100 Ruble note for you - 1991 vintage).

I suppose you can't write without being gender-neutral. It's ok, so long as you admit it. Though it's odd that the op wrote many more sentences without you without mentioning the op's sex.

And, the op's sex doesn't matter, but you think using "he" as a default is ok. Ever thought about the fact that the op was purposefully leaving the op's sex out of the posts?

If you're talking about relevance, why would a 100 Ruble note matter or have any relevance to tipping in Japan? Would you tip a 100 Ruble note to a Japanese tour guide? :rolleyes:

It seems that I have offended you.

Hardly. It would take much more to offend me. My thoughts regarding your posts are similar to how Japanese people react to foreigners and foreigners' inability to understand keigo: hardly a surprise. Also, I do like it as well when foreigners speak katakana like English, but that's another discussion.

Your generalisation about 'Japanese people' and their reactions is crude and bordering on the offensive.

It goes much further in the way of assumptions than the 'he' used as a default in English you've picked jib71 up on.

And on the other side of the internet.......reporting from Livingston, Zambia which is across a bridge from Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe. The folks in Zimbabwe are being either starved out by Mugabe or are being forced out of their homes violently lest they vote for the opposition. Things are dire for them, they have no food.......really......very bad. Anyway, I ventured across the bridge for a few hours and handed some food out that I purchased in Zambia....sadly the border guards took half of what I brought! Perhaps we could tip those in Japan with Zim Dollars. I saw a 50 Billion note today........better use it before it expires !

Wow, re-read what I typed and come back to me.

Japanese people are not surprised when foreigners cannot use keigo. That statement is neither crude nor offensive. 99.9999% of foreigners either don't know the concept of keigo or don't use it properly, so why would it be offensive if Japanese people are not surprised when foreigners suck at Japanese?

You might like to re-read your own post:

"how Japanese people react to foreigners and foreigners' inability to understand keigo: hardly a surprise"

The way I read it is:

how Japanese people react to foreigners and how Japanese people react to foreigners' inability to understand keigo is 'hardly a surprise'.

You don't seem to understand the implications of your own written eigo.


And 99.9999% of all statistics are pulled out of thin air. Any source for your assertion? It's almost as if you are suggesting that out of the 2 million non-Japanese residing in Japan only about 200 or so can speak Japanese fluently. Yet another assumption.

WARNING WILL ROBINSON "TROLL ALERT".:p:p:p

Not surprised to see this one troll making out themselves to be an astute observer of Japanese society's norms... ;P

As if I haven't seen any stereotypical views of Japanese society.. :rolleyes: :p

Sanosuke!

No, that is why I explained it again for you in any case. And you seem to not be able to grasp what role that colon played in the sentence and the parallel I was trying to make between my reaction to jib71's post and the fact that foreigners can't understand Japanese. And, you seem to think that your interpretation is more important than my interpretation of my own post??

Not one foreigner passed the entire Japanese bar exam ever in its previous iteration, and very few even passed the second stage. Foreigners include the whole world, as well. How many people have tried to learn Japanese and how many people suck at it? Yes, foreigners suck at Japanese.

Actually, yes. That's the concept known as communication. If, in general, your interpretation of what you said or wrote always took precedence over what the other person understood, then we have a problem. Perhaps it is something particular to the Japanese, and that would certainly explain why Mr. Kato is so inscrutable. My cat Smidgen also behaves that way, but he lives in his own little alternate furry universe anyway.

Not many Japanese passed the bar exam either, so what's your point? How many foreigners took the Japanese bar exam, anyway? Three?

And the Japanese aren't exactly known for their stellar command of English, so again, what's your point?

Not sure if the problem is s-b-t's eigo or s-b-t's ego.

Either way, I agree with Tokyorich.

Off-topic: there should be a Gif for Troll Alert. Maybe something like a hurricane flag, but with a picture of nerdy-looking teenager.

If she misunderstood what I wrote (or mistyped, as I'm known to do), then I get what you're saying and generally agree with it. However, in post #29, I clearly explained what my intentions were, and she should have understood it at that point. If she doesn't understand, that's her problem, not mine.

Yeah, never did I say that Japanese are known for their stellar command of English. If someone said Japanese people suck at English, I would agree with them, and there are complaints all over this board how "so and so" went to country x and "so and so"'s complaint was that no one could speak English. And so? It's true.

laplap could may even be right that 200 out of 2 million foreigners are truly fluent... I don't really count burakumin or koreans who are 4th generation Japanese to be foreigners either.

Then I must know about two dozen of them, all of them white as lilies. I must move in some pretty good circles.

Well, if you're a good judge of fluency, I suppose you're running in good circles. But until they can read and write fluently, I don't count them as fluent.

Okay, s-b-t, let me jump in here then.

What is your _standard_ or for the lack of a better word - "bar" for fluency then?

I hope you do know there is a thing called the JLPT. Read up on it, s-b-t.

Sanosuke!

I'd go with it's s-b-t's eigo. I'd also add that I doubt if s-b-t has actually been to Japan (unless s-b-t is actually Japanese).