I still have a bunch of details to work out so our plans are flexible at this point. The long and short of it is we have 6 days and nights in Japan and would like to visit Tokyo and Kyoto. This is our first visit to Japan. I was planning to spend most if the time in Tokyo and a night and a day and a half in Kyoto. Does this make sense? Is tokyo worth 4 days? I know Kyoto is worth a week, but we may need to make another trip there at a later date. Any thoughts on how you would split the 6 days is appreciated. FWIW, I can fly into KIX or NRT, but have to fly out of NRT.

TIA.

Opinions vary in this group on this subject.

In my view, you should budget more time in Kyoto than you have. At least half-and-half. Three days will let you at least get a good, quick look at the old city and 3 days in Tokyo will do the same.

If you can work it out, flying into KIX and out of NRT is ideal for this type of trip. The shinkansen between Tokyo and Kyoto is rather expensive and eliminating a one-way would help the money-budget and the time-budget.

An arrival at KIX would permit you to immediately transfer via the JR Haruka deluxe limited express from KIX to Kyoto Station in 75 minutes of comfortable rail travel on a train that is equipped for air travelers, including plenty of room for bags. Two or three nights in Kyoto would open up the city for you. The shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo averages less than 2-3/4 hours. After spending a few days in Tokyo, the train out to NRT - either the JR Narita Express from Tokyo or Shinagawa Station or the Keisei Skyliner from Ueno Station will take a bit over an hour.

My best advice - don't short-change Kyoto.

JR

What abmj said.

Most tourists are looking for the more "traditional" Japan, and that's easier to find in Kyoto, although frankly, I find Tokyo endlessly fascinating and have yet to see everything.

Flying into NRT and out of KIX will give you the maximum amount of time in both cities and shouldn't cost any more than flying in and out of the same airport. (I've done it a couple of times.)

So given your limitations, fly into KIX and take the Haruka train straight to Kyoto for 3 nights, followed by the Shinkansen to Tokyo for 3 nights. With this itinerary, it is not economic to get a JR pass, just pay for the shinkansen tickets directly.

If you feel up to a cross-cultural experience, you can find a "coupon shop" in Kyoto where you can buy coupons (for cash) that will save you 2-10% on the shinkansen ticket, depending on whether it is Nozomi or Hikari.

My feeling is this. Unless you're really about the night life and clubs, Kyoto is the way to go for the majority of the trip. I usually end up arriving and departing from NRT however. This is because the fares to and from KIX are usually a lot more for me. Your millage may vary depending on where you're flying from. It certainly is quite nice to start at NRT and end at KIX when you're doing the classic Tokyo/Kyoto combo.

Many thanks for the quick responses. It sounds pretty unanimous that more time in Kyoto is warranted. We will be flying in from ICN so it doesn't really matter if we fly from ICN to NRT or KIX. Our flight back to the US is from NRT and so we would visit KIX first. We're not that into nightlife, but do like to hang out and see the modern culture as well as the ancient one.

I also really appreciate the advice about the trains. To someone who is unfamiliar with all the lines, names and companies that offer service it is daunting.

Just so I understand, it isn't worth a 7 day pass if we are flying into KIX going to Kyoto then to Tokyo and then Narita. We are staying at the Westin Chosun. I'm confused about the use or JR trains in Tokyo. Do you take those trains within Tokyo or is it all subway? If I need to do a search or there is a thread on this already, just let me know. I hate to ask a question that gets asked all the time. I did do a search, but still found it confusing... almost like a different language of which I understand bits and pieces and concepts, but miss the meat of it.

Here are a few sites that your might or might not have visited, about trains and passes:

http://www.ttasfo.com/pages/tokyu_jr.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2017.html

The Yamamote Line is a JR operated train in Tokyo. It circles the city, and connects to many subway lines.

I also concur that 3 days in Kyoto would be enough, so that you have equal time in Tokto.

When you get to Tokyo, each of you should buy a Suica or Pasmo stored value card. You just tap this in and out for each ride and don't have to worry about whether it is the railroad or the subway you are riding on.

Here's the math on the JR pass: Kyoto-Tokyo is Y13,500, the train from KIX to Kyoto is Y3,000 and the Narita Express is Y3,000 -- this totals Y19,500, and a 7 day JR pass is Y28,000. You won't spend even 1/3 of the difference on JR in Tokyo (and there is no JR service inside Kyoto).

Furthermore, there are ways to save on the costs of all three trips. The coupon shop I mentioned above is only one possibility. As but one additional example, the Keisei Skyliner will take you to Narita airport from Ueno just as fast and is Y1,000 cheaper (plus I've even seen Keisei Skyliner tickets at discount in a coupon shop). However, with only 6 days, it might not be worth it to spend time trying to figure all that out.

Again, many thanks. I'm going to print this and take it with me. Although I am not all that cost sensitive, I am surprised about the cost of the train between Kyoto and Tokyo.

If it fits in the schedule I would like to go to a baseball game in Tokyo or Osaka while we are there. If it ends up being Osaka, I guess that would add a few yen to the train total, but still be cheaper to buy individually.

Any thoughts on the "green car." is that much better/worth it. I'm used to my train travel being on Amtrak so clearly anything will be an improvement.

Thank you for the links.

An Acela from Boston to Philadelphia covers the same distance taking twice as long and 30% higher price... (OK, so you'd fly... ).

From Kyoto to the Kyocera Dome in Osaka takes about an hour. Fare is about 800 each way with local trains. If there's a game when you're in Tokyo, it would probably be easier to reach.

Ordinary car is perfectly comfortable, but definitely get reserved seats.

If you have luggage, you might want to request the seats at the very back of the car, because that's the place to store bags (behind those seats).

Not only that, but the Shinkansen leaves every few minutes and you're pretty much guaranteed to get there on time and in one piece. The same cannot be said for neither the Acela nor the plane in the NE corridor.

Excellent advice all around. I actually made a post to this thread last night that somehow disappeared into the big bit-bucket in the sky - have no idea what happened. It looks like most of my ideas in that post have been covered by subsequent posts except one - in case you have not yet found it, please do check out the Master Thread at the head of this forum, particularly post #3 and page #2. There is quite a bit of info about "getting around" in that thread.

Also, even if you are not a "guidebook person," I suggest getting one for ideas on what to see and where things are. It makes life a lot easier. I like Frommer's, but there are many excellent choices. I your case, I suggest the more in-depth specific city guides for Tokyo and Kyoto, rather than a general "Japan" guide. If not, than at least be sure to stop at the Tourist Information Center at either KIX or Kyoto Station and pick up maps and guides for Kyoto and Tokyo.

JR

I picked up a couple of books. One for Tokyo, one for Japan and I'll probably get one for Kyoto. There is usually stuff in there that I wouldn't have found any other way.

After looking at the baseball schedules, I think the Giants game will work better for us. Plus if the wife doesn't want to go, I can take off for a few hours more easily that way.

I just got back from a 3 week trip to Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka. It was my first time to Japan. I had 2 weeks in Tokyo and 4 days in Kyoto. I wished I would have budgeted more time for Kyoto. I found it to be the traditional Japan I wanted to see.

The Nozomi (Shinkansen train) between Tokyo and Kyoto was right around 13,000 yen. It was a joy to ride. I went with unreserved seats and had no problems (4 of us traveled together). They are frequent so if you miss one just wait a few minutes.

Tokyo is massive and has a lot to take in but the major sites/districts can be seen fairly quickly via the subway but getting to know each area can take a lifetime. I highly recommend the Passmo card. It takes a 500 yen deposit but its nice to stick it in your wallet and just tap your wallet as you walk through the gates. Talk to one of the gate officers as you are leaving and you can get the deposit back.

Kyoto has old world charm. It has a lot of everything and they are sprinkled everywhere. I enjoyed the izakayas (small bars with the red lantern out front). Be sure to go to the temples in the northwest corner of the city. Tenryju (spelling) was fascinating to visit and there is a neat bamboo forest you can walk through. On the way back in be sure to catch the Golden Palace and the nightingale floors in the Nijo Jo were pretty cool with some amazing grounds. I missed the series of Tori gates down south but will have to hit them on a later trip.

Enjoy yourself. There is a ton to see and the people are incredibly friendly. Open a map and someone will come over to help. Ask for directions to a subway entrance and they will take you there. I can't wait to go back.