Hassled in Tokyo
 

I bring this up only because it happens every time I am in Tokyo. I travel throughout Asia including Communist Countries and never get even a look from the police. In Tokyo I get stopped for simply walking down a plain street in the middle of the day and asked to produce my passport. Both times on both trips I did not have it with me. The first time they radioed and got the “OK” to let me go. :rolleyes: On this last trip an undercover agent approached me while I was paying for my subway ticket and showed me his badge and demanded a passport. I showed him my driver’s license but he could speak English so within a minute a dozen undercover agents surrounded me asking why I was in Japan. :rolleyes: Eventually I mentioned something about living in Ichiro's team city and everyone went away after apologizing. Seriously, I have been to a lot of places in Asia and Eastern Europe but never been treated like this. I feel like the secret cameras see a Caucasian and instruct the agents to intercept me. Truly I am doing nothing suspicious. It seems almost racists to me but may be part of Japans effort to keep their culture closed off from outsiders.

Is there anything unusual about your appearance that causes them pause?

I've never been hassled in Tokyo... unless you count comments about how pale my skin is... but I've gotten that throughout Asia (usually from women accompanied by questions about what beauty products I use to get it/keep it that white).

I find your post most odd. How old are you, are you a linebacker, and how do you dress? Is there something that might trigger their curiosity? Being a white male of rather non-descript character I have never been approached in Tokyo or anywhere else in Japan. I do get approached by young women students on the streets of China. And once, 30-years ago, I was asked by a French policeman for my documents getting off a train in Paris, but never what you describe. And I would never leave my hotel without my passport when traveling abroad, even when visitng in the United States!

I also find this very odd. In many trips to various parts of Japan, I have never, ever been approached by police. In fact, the only times I have ever spoken with police officers was when I went to the koban seeking directions. I am really curious as to what there is in your appearance, dress, demeanor or locations you visit that is triggering their profiles.

As to the passport, why do you not have it in your possession as is required? That is just asking for trouble, regardless of what country you are visiting.

JR

...I thought the passport was supposed to stay with the hotel desk?

(never really been comfortable about that, must say.)

This has never happened to me in 14 years of living here but I do know people who were subjected to a random ID check while walking through Ueno station. (Two caucasian males. Casually dressed, with nothing "provocative" in their appearance. Just walking through the station. Not doing anything suspicious). The police officer told them that he was checking for "overstayers."

According to Arudo Debito, the law states that the police should only ask ID if there is a suspicion of crime etc.:
http://www.debito.org/instantcheckpoints2.html

With this in mind, you should ask the police about their reason for subjecting you to the ID check. However, as a visitor you are required to carry your passport. A photocopy would be enough to get you out of the situation very quickly.

Believe it or not, you can walk around the UK with no ID at all.

Definitely not. The hotel desk will ask to see your passport. But you keep it.

I have to agree with the frequent visitors and/or residents. I've never been stopped by the police once in the past ten years. OTOH, Mizuho bank usually wants 50 different forms of ID and proof of blood type anytime I want to deposit money in my account. :rolleyes:

Different styles of dress and fashion which are totally acceptable and possibly normal in other countries can appear to be "different" here and may be considered suspicious. What may be considered "normal" to the OP may be highly unusual in Japan.

So much so that until now I had no idea I was required to carry it with me in Japan. I mostly don't - just so I don't lose it.

Stopped once in 11 years for a passport check, obviously didn't have it or my gaijin card either. They were happy with my driver's license. I routinely never carry ID here. The Japanese don't have to, why should I?
To the OP, you're just unlucky.

I never carry my passport around while traveling; I always leave it in the hotel.

The chances of losing it due to theft out on the street are probably considerably higher than being asked to produce it by local authorities.

The driver's license will have to do, if I'm even carrying that. If they want, they can accompany me back to my hotel where I will be happy to show them the passport.

I have also never been asked by the police in Japan for my passport or any other form of ID. I've heard stories, but these seem to mainly involve checks of bike registrations, rather than just random checks of pedestrians.

I also find it highly unlikely that you would be "surrounded by a dozen undercover agents" for no reason other than that you didn't have your passport with you...

I have never been stopped in the one year plus that I have been living in Japan. I don't carry passport but make sure wife and I always have our military ids. Although not required for locals to carry id, I don't find it an onerous requirement for foreigners to carry ids. As for random stopping by police, I like OP, would be annoyed if this were a frequent occurrence.

Marc

I think they have more problems with Chinese, Philippine, Indian over staying their visa. Most of the Caucasian over stayers seem to be street vendors, lower ranking musicians etc. When dressed in similar style, then they will be more prong to be checked.

I've never been stopped on the street, but then again there might be other reasons for that. The only time I have been asked to produce passport to law enforcement is at Narita Airport, but thats part of their standard security procedures for all passengers.

Like it or not Japanese law requires you to have your passport on your procession at all time if you are a visitor. It is very unlikely to get stolen in Japan, if it is lost most likely someone would turn it to lost and found (eg railway station) or to a police koban.

Yes I understand the pain of getting a new passport if lost, but I'd rather deal with that then spend time in a detention cell until they can prove your identity. Though I don't think it will come to that point. But there was that case involving an old lady that it happened to, but turns out she was a Japanese citizen!

Wow, so many questions. I knew people would be saying "I lived there for years and no one stopped me." Don't know what to say other than this happend to us. The first time I was stopped it felt like they really wanted to know if I was overstaying but I find it unsettling for them to just randomly just stop me without reason but I guess I play by their rules. They asked me a bunch of questions about when I got there, when I was leaving etc. which they wanted to match with my passport. My partner does not allow me to carry my passport. Affraid I will lose it. Now I am white and he is Asian. Maybe that seems "odd" to them.
The 2nd time they concentrated on my partner. The "dozen" agents converged BECAUSE the first agent could not speak English and they were confused why my partner could not speak Japanese. What was freaky about the agents is they were normal looking people in regular clothes standing around the subway pay station during rush hour and they came out of the blue both male and female showing us their badges. The country must be crawling with undercover people. They did say it was "mistaken identity" but it seemed like a lie to me. We were arguing as we bought the subway tickets so maybe the thought the "Asian" was trying to scam me. There was also an incident many years ago of some people gasing and killing other passengers on the subway so maybe they are on high alert from "evil" Americans.
However, anyway you look at it is very unsettling considering I have been to Vietnam so many times over the past 15 years and have never even got a look.

Not likely. That incident had nothing to do with "evil Americans." It was done by Japanese citizens. Virtually every terrorist incident in Japan has been homegrown. It seems much more likely that they were interested in an obvious westerner in some sort of relationship with an obvious asian. That quite likely caught someone's eye as a possible scheme to overstay a visa. It would be a stereotype but then, they do that.

Wow! Your OP just talks about you as an individual (it says "I/me") Caucasian American being hassled.

Now all of a sudden you mention your Asian partner was with you during the two incidents -- it's "we/us" rather than "I/me."

What other details were you leaving out? Unusual clothing, hairstyles, piercings, tattoos? Strange behavior? ;)

I'm not justifying the hassling, but I'm sure most readers of this thread would like to know if there was some sort of pattern to it. Like maybe seeing a white guy and an Asian guy together raises the undercover cops' suspicions, especially if they thought he was Japanese. :confused:

Exactly. The sarin gas attacks on the Tokyo subway were carried out in 1995 by members of a Japanese religious cult, Aum Shinrikyo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_g...e_Tokyo_subway

Regarding the first incident, it would have been good if you'd asked why you were being asked for ID. Just seeing a foreigner (or foreigners or outlandishly dressed foreigners with tattoos and piercings) is not sufficient cause for a police officer to request ID. Unfortunately we all know that foreigners are occasionally ID'd for no good reason - even if we have not had personal experience of it.

Regarding the second incident, I guess that an argument in a station might be cause enough for a police officer to consider you or your partner suspicious. Again, it would be good if you had asked why you were being asked for ID. (Yes. I know it's not easy when there's a language barrier).

I doubt that it has anything to do with being an Asian + Caucasian couple.

That's quite a conclusion to draw from one incident.
If you had a dozen plain clothes agents converge on you, I think that something exceptional was going down at the station.

I got a hint of something like that at King's Cross Station in London once - saw two or three plain clothes agents with ear pieces, clearly moving in a coordinated operation. I don't know who they were protecting / following / observing. It happens from time to time in any major city.

Well nothing unusual. I was not wearing a dark suit like every single person around us. But maybe there is a dress code in Japan. I guess there always has been a dress code if you are Japanese.
We were not doing anything weird however it has shown us always be on your best behavior and try to act like the Japanese even if you are alone because I feel like they are watching you.
Good to hear. Not sure if people have the same rights or not. They seem to back pedal quite fast when they discover they have not "caught" me doing anything.
Only other thing they could be doing is looking for fare evaders as they were watching the turnstiles but everyone is so honest in Japan I can't imagine anyone ever getting caught. I tell you if you could have seen how so many agents came out of nowhere it was quite freaky. In fact, most of the people standing around the subway pay station were actually undercover agents.
I also got slightly hassled by customs coming through the airport unlike any other Asian country but I am sure others get it much worse from U.S. immigration. They kept questioning/searcing me for quite a while asking if I knew Japanese, etc. Of course this could be the 100 immigration stamps I have in my passport.

I do, I'm not a visitor here.

Sorry. You've lost me.
I don't think that Japan is crawling with plain clothes agents. I have no idea why there were plain clothes agents at the station where you were questioned. I can think of several reasons for a large number of plain clothes agents to be at a subway station, but all of them are "extrordinary" events -- a visit by a dignitary, a threat of terrorism, a need to follow a specific criminal, a tip off of a crime etc. etc.

Catching visa overstayers or fare evaders would not be likely reasons IMHO.

I've been stopped once (not counting the time when I got stopped and they wanted to see my bike registration), and that was when I was running at midnight (yes, I had my gaijin card on me, so it only took a minute).

Honestly, I can see why you were stopped in the subway. Other than that, I'm not sure. Either there's something we're not being told or your experience is definitely not normal.

I do as a visitor, though I am and look Japanese (apart from what I wear ;)) and don't expect to be stopped as a foreigner.

What I can't get used to is the requirement to carry a driving licence when driving, since it is not a requirement in the UK.

Not any more. This used to be a practice in most countries when a foreign passport holder checked in (likely so it was impossible to leave the country) but now a photocopy of the photoID and signature pages are taken and passport returned. Otherwise, as noted, a foreigner is always supposed to have his or her passport (or acceptable national identity card, certainly not just a drivers license which can be the most bogus type of US ID ever created!) on their person at all times. That's the very purpose of this document which lets a foreigner pass freely in any country that signs onto the international protocol. (Some countries may have civil liberties traditions that are thoroughly archaic in today's world, but if you are not a citizen of a country, you have proscribed rights.)

Because you are a foreigner. The UK has its own particular problem which goes back to feudal days and the ending of the devine right of kings. But as long as you are not a citizen of a country officials have every right to detain you until you can prove your status.

Doh! Like wake up and smell the reality! You're a Caucasian male (of what age) in the company of an Asian male (of what age)? You're gay and most societies are far from liberal about such circumstances. No wonder you were stopped. Sorry but if you don't like my analysis, you'd better come back to a part of the world where such things are tolerated (which unfortunately are very, very few and certainly does not encompass 90% of the USA either!).

We now know the reason you were stopped. A bit of information goes a long way. BTW why does your partner not want you to carry a passport? What gives him the right to dictate such things to you, and flaunt what is a basic convention if not law for foreigners visiting any country other than their own? Japan is among the safest countries in the world so your partner's excuse is BS.

Also smell the coffee about the sex trade, and two male foreigners traveling together of mixed race in some eyes can raise an alarm, particularly in a repressed society like Japan which has ethnic zenophobia and keeps its sexual ideosyncracies behind closed doors. I don't want to be jumped upon as a homophobe, but I think your eyes are so coloured by a permissiveness that you expect the rest of the world's societies to adopt, and it just ain't so! Your reference to having travelled in SEAsia for 15-years leads me to suspect your partner is a lot younger than you as well, so this too would immediately set off suspicions among the police.

As for the gassing in the Tokyo subway, that was more than 10-years ago and was a local religious cult, so I cannot see why that would even be a rationalization on your part? It is not "evil Americans" who are terrorists these days...we Caucasians have become the victims of terrorism be it in NYC, London or Madrid.

Japan is actually pretty liberal when it comes to homosexuality. I don't think that is a normal basis for increased scrutiny from police. More than likely, the OP was just at the wrong place at the wrong time and triggered some sort of search that the police were undertaking.

FWIW, it's xenophobia. And ethnicity is only tangential to the condition.

I am nearly 40 but thanks for reminding my about my old age. We are both about the same age, together for 12 years, although Asians don't seem to age like Caucasions doReally? We were walking down the street like any other two people. :(
Mixed couple = sex trade?Actually I was wrong about 15 years - it has been since 1999 for me.
I guess I better wake up. Thanks for the advice.^

Yes, this sounds weird. Maybe you resembled somebody they were out on the lookout for. And just for completeness, I've never been stopped in the street and asked to produce ID. I usually don't carry it, so I'm tempting fate, but I like to live on the edge.

I think it probably has to do with the sex trade and maybe there is increasingly more gay American/Russian/other men who are servicing the Japanese Gay population. Maybe the police are on alert for gay men who are prostitutes in Japan and overstaying their tourist visits..

I think that probably is why they were so surprised with the fact that op's Asian partner wasn't Japanese.

They didn't think they were looking at two foreigners--they thought they were looking at one Japanese gay guy with a white gay guy who was hired??

Bollocks, they don't know I'm a foreigner just by looking at me (though it'd be a pretty good guess). It's institutionalised racism anyway you care to dress it up.

Wow. Some people have such vivid imaginations.

For the folks who think that the second incident was in some way related to the OP's sexuality, race or partner's race. Do you think that two plain clothes cops engaged in an operation at a subway station with 10 other plain clothes cops would put their operation on hold to indulge in a little gay harassment or mixed race couple harassment?

I think it's unlikely.

For the folks who think that the incident was in some way related to a clean up of the sex trade. Is it likely that 12 cops would be watching the turnstiles at a subway station to clamp down on prostitution?** I have read that there are periodic raids on properties where prostitution goes on. I can believe that there are teams of plain clothes cops observing people in neighbourhoods where street solicitation happens. But a subway ticket gate doesn't strike me as the place they'd set up an operation to catch prostitutes.

Unless theres a subway kaisatsu cottaging phenom. that I'm simply unaware of....... I suppose it's possible, but I've been through a lot of subway gates and never been propositioned. (Maybe I'm just too ugly).

Oh -- I've just remembered one reason that there are sometimes groups of plain clothes cops on the subway. They sometimes have sting operations to catch "Chikan" (molesters). I recall one incident where a woman complained to the cops that she was being repeatedly targetted by some gropers. A group of plain-clothes cops joined her on her morning commute for several days. When the offenders struck, the undercover police team stepped in and arrested them.

OP - Did you or your boyfriend have mirrors on your shoes? Or might you have inadvertantly put a hand up a stranger's skirt? I know how easily these things can happen by mistake and get blown out of all proportion.

(Paragraphs 5 and 7 are tongue in cheek. The rest of this post is intended seriously. I know it's confusing the way I sometimes mix the two. I do it to keep you on your toes).

** And we're talking about a subway station where everyone is wearing a dark suit. So this is not Roppongi on a Friday night.

Once, whilst minding my own business (and wearing a long jumper knitted for me by my mother) I was propositioned by a young Japanese man (not unhandsome) who wanted to buy my services.

This was outside Kings Cross Station in London.

My own mother (someone who has never worn heels or make up in her life) was also propositioned here by someone who wanted to be her pimp.

Coincidentally, this is also a station where I've seen large gangs of plain clothes policemen stop and apprehend people, usually males, on numerous occasions. I have to say that most of the times (but not all) those apprehended were not caucasian.

Just thought I'd throw this into the mix for a little perspective. I've always thought of Ueno station as kind of like the Kings Cross equivalent for Tokyo. Now even more so.

---
I also had a group of about 8 plain clothes policemen swoop on me when a gang of young men, foreigners, took a case of mine outside a Bus Station in Alicante, Spain when I was waiting for a cousin to come and collect me. The case was returned and the gang taken away. Naturally, I was happy to see them.

Plain clothes officials always seem to work as a team in my experience. In Japan, where 3 people in Public facing roles usually do the work of 1 elsewhere, perhaps it isn't surprising that so many work together.

I'm sorry the OP was so unlucky. I've enjoyed my own interactions with the police in Japan and not seen the flipside as of yet. I can't even guess as to what they were looking for in Ueno.

I think you may be mixing up incidents.

The Ueno story in this thread is one of my contributions and there's absolutely no mystery to the story - Ueno is where my two friends were stopped. They were stopped by a lone policeman in uniform. They did ask why he wanted to see ID. He did say that he was checking for overstayers. There's no mystery. It was an unwarranted ID check, since merely being foreign is not a valid reason for a policeman to suspect criminal activity or intent. If I had been there with time on my hands, I think I would have protested against the harrassment, demanded to see the cop's ID and subsequently lodged an official complaint.

The OP has not mentioned which station he was hassled at. He did mention that everyone around was wearing a dark suit. That makes me think of Nagatacho, Kasumigaseki, Otemachi etc. But it could describe the scene at so many stations during certain times of day. (My local station is often full of dark suits since there's a funeral ceremony place nearby).

I don't see how you can say others' speculation is wrong when you're speculating as well. Did you know that there's some secret gay code at airport bathrooms before the Larry Craig incident? The police knew about it.. I suppose you're supposed to know about it before the police do?

Whether or not the police were there for a terrorist attack or for some high-profile government people is irrelevant. If they think there is something weird going on, they will investigate.

Not to mention, why is it that the reason police were there in the first place limited to protecting public profile figures or some news about a terrorist attack? Maybe it was a training program or a training tool? Or maybe there's some secret gay prostitution thing you don't know about? But none of that can be right according to your expert opinion...

I have said that some theories are "unlikely" - I don't think I've been bold enough in this discussion to dismiss anyone's theory as "wrong"

Let me show you why I am skeptical of a specific speculation that I have criticized:

One of the speculations in this post is:
(1) "it probably has to do with the sex trade"

The foundations for this speculation appear to be
(1) "maybe there is increasingly more gay American/Russian/other men who are servicing the Japanese Gay population.
(2) "Maybe the police are on alert for gay men who are prostitutes in Japan and overstaying their tourist visits.."

So, we have a "probably" balancing on two "maybes." "Maybes" are inherently flimsy. The theory collapses.

Let's look at my theory:

Here's the speculation:
"an argument in a station might be cause enough for a police officer to consider you or your partner suspicious"

The foundation for this speculation is the OP's comment:
"We were arguing as we bought the subway tickets"

It's a "might be" which is supported by a "We were"

The theory is not perfect. It can be attacked from a number of angles such as:
- If 12 policemen were undercover at a location they would be unlikely to want to give themselves away by becoming engaged with two bickering foreigners

That's why I only felt confident enough to hazard a "might be" rather than a "probably" or a "certainly."

I'm happy for you to dispute any of the reasoning that I've layed out in my posts. I'm genuinely interested in the issue of foreigners being unfairly harrassed in Japan - and if my premises or reasoning are flawed, I really want to know about it.

I think it's highly relevant to the OP's conjecture that Japan is crawling with plain clothes police. I don't think this conjecture is justified.

My experience tells me that there are plain clothes police officers in Japan, but they don't get deployed in groups of 12 unless there's something special happening.

It's not. That's why I wrote:
My point is that whatever the reason for the presence of plain clothes police officers, it is not the normal state of affairs for subway stations to have 12 plain clothes police officers on duty in the absence of a special reason.

The OP stated that he believes that Japan is crawling with plain clothes police officers. I am trying to explain that he was witness to an extremely unusual situation.

I think that's plausible.

I am almost sure that there are many gay prostitution things that I don't know about. But I find it unlikely that they are going on at the ticket gate of a subway station full of suits. I frequently find myself in subway stations full of suiits. I'm observant enough.

I have pointed out that some theories are "unlikely" based on facts of the story as presented by the OP. I've also applied some relevant experience of my own to interpretting this story. To wit:
- I have an MA in Japanese studies
- I am a regular visitor to Japan since 1989
- I currently live in Japan (and have lived here 14 years)
- I have one experience of dealing with plain clothes cops to plan the visit of a member of the Imperial family to my place of work.
- I experienced multiple police ID checks when my office received a bomb threat
- I follow Japanese news stories in English and Japanese media
- I have gay friends (including two Asian + Caucasian couples) who lived in Japan
- I have foreign friends (including two who were asked for ID for no reason)

NRT, JUL06, waiting for the Narita Hilton shuttle, standing by myself with luggage, I saw 2 uniformed policemen across the street as they were looking at me. They crossed the street at the crosswalk and walked towards me.

They approached me and asked to see my ID. Both were very professional, very polite, but they were asking questions. What, why, when? One officer wrote down some info from my passport, while his partner and I engaged in a conversation about Florida, my home these days.

It didn't bother me, but the policemen did write down info from the passport and my answers to their questions. At the end of the encounter, they thanked me, wished me a good stay at the Narita Hilton and walked on....

Caucasian male, mid 40s, smart casual dressed, etc....