Nonetheless, it was wrong of them to ask for ID.

I wish that everyone who goes through this would ask why they're being ID'd.

For some people it may be no big deal - but some police officers clearly need to be reminded that there must be a valid reason to do an ID check.

It took me a few minutes to read through these posts.

In any case, you win.

You have proven yourself to be an expert with these kinds of credentials.. MA in Japanese studies and you have friends..

I agree with your logic now!
Gay bathroom sex = likely
Police stopping a gay couple because of suspicion of prostitution = highly unlikely.

Maybe because they're used to seeing Americans in Vietnam? :D

Is that how you met your husband?

(J/K, of course! :D)

In October many employers of non Japanese were asked for a list of non Japanese employees.

There have also been many recent reports (on the internet) of increased ID checks of non Japanese. As I have been made aware of the increases, for the past few moths I have been very careful to remember my I.D. even when going out near home. I do not know the reason for the sudden increase. I do know that it is a fact.

I think that the OP was just caught up in the sweep.

Paying the trip expenses of someone you'd never met before could be viewed this way. Of course, I'm the one who did the propositioning.

So, depending on your morals, not so far off...

Oops! Yes I did :o

Japan is an insular society and has its own mores when it comes to outsiders. If you are not visually identifiable as being ethnically Japanese, then you are a target for suspicions. That's a fact of life. You may feel it violates your rights under some flimsy UN Charter of Human Rights, but that's bullocks. When you are a non-resident in most countries, you have very few rights. If you feel the way you do, then why are you in that country?

Unwarranted? Maybe to you, but it is quite valid for officials to do such checks. [off-topic and personal attack removed by senior moderator]

No, really, my opinion has nothing to do with it.

[Quote of and response to now-removed material deleted by senior moderator]

Hmmmm...
As jib71 has consistently backed up his posts, takes the trouble to research them and has graciously corrected them on the few occasions he may have been mistaken I think [remainder of sentence deleted by senior moderator since a response to now-deleted prior post]

I agree that it is wrong for a policeman to apprehend someone without due cause, and I'm sure that what jib71 has said about the law means that it is not a 'right' that they have either.

Sure, I don't live in Japan, but my Japanese husband lives in the UK with me. If he was to be questioned by the police for no reason I would hope he would, and certainly encourage him to question why he was being singled out this way.

If the Japanese authorities don't want their own Nationals being treated as suspected criminals abroad they have no right to treat those of other nationalities in this way on their own turf either. Perhaps it's the culture I've been brought up in, as well as being well aware of what it means to be the subject of a Dictatorship (as my mother was) but I view basic human rights as a precious but fragile commodity. If they are enshrined by law, nobody has the right to push away at the perimeters, no matter how 'valid' their reasons to do so might seem, they are far too easily eroded.

If people like jib71 aren't prepared to stand up for their rights and explain them to others, those rights will quickly mean nothing. And as there is every possibility I will be living in Japan for an undefined period at some point in the future, I am personally grateful that he, and others like him, aren't meekly allowing the authorities to ride roughshod over these rights.

Saying it's quite alright for officials to hassle foreigners in Japan without due cause is giving the authorities here carte blanch to hassle my husband (an Asian) in the same way. From my perspective as a Brit, it isn't acceptable.

I'm a 41 year old Caucasian and I've never been hassled by Japanese police. While walking to Minami-Senju Station, once, a koban police officer comically stood at attention and saluted me. I returned the salute and continued on my way.

Interesting. I think this may apply to the first incident. We did nothing. I am happy to know this since we will probably be returning next year.

In the second incident we left the Grand Hyatt, went directly into the subway to buy a ticket. We slightly and briefly argued about which machine to use because there is like three different machines and the amount to pay based on the station name is in Kanji. We had used our Suica cards up until then which are so great since we did not have to think! They were not very interested in me and one person seemed a bit surprised that we knew each other. But we had remembered the incident from the previous year and after the agents walked off we kind of looked at each other like "that was sooo freaky." How come this always happens to us?

Despite the whole attitude on here that:
I don't think Japan is intolerant and really we did nothing for the police not to tolerate. Their culture makes being gay unacceptable and embarrassing but there is not the religious intolance like we have in the U.S. Gay people in Japan are still expected by their family to marry someone of the opposite sex. Sometimes being outed in Japan can have a negative impact on one's reputation so therefore blackmail incidents supposely occur in Japan. The one a read about online was a man who worked at a straight porn shop who was so afraid that he would be outed to his co-workers he actually gave in to an extortion sceme.

That law leaves a great deal of leeway for the Japanese Police to stop and ID, doesn't it?

I arrived in NRT from Tokyo on a bus during a very quiet international flights arrival time. I was spending my last night in Japan at the Narita Hilton, so I just walked to the Hilton shuttle station and waited foir the bus. It was very quiet, and I mean QUIET, and perhaps the officers found it "odd/suspicious" for a caucasian ~40+ yo male waiting for a shuttle when there were no international arrivals for some time. I'm just guessing, as I don't know the full NRT schedule, but all I'm trying to say is that the law as prescibed above does allow them to ID under a wide spectrum of what may be suspicious.

Like I said, it was no big deal. Both officers were very polite although only one spoke English. He was the one telling me about his wonderful trip to Orlando, Florida with his family while his partner was writing my passport info down and "my story" as interpreted to him by the English speaking officer.

That was the only time during my Tokyo visit. I came back to Osaka, Japan a month later and AFAIK, that ID check had no effect whatsoever on my return.

Love the country.

Going to have to chime in here. I see a post in which one person takes a wholly inappropriate stance towards another, and in so doing offends me. Shareholder, jib71 is clearly willing to support his contentions with fact, shows a great deal of reserve in articulately addressing positions with which he may have issue. After my own 17 years here and the accompanying awareness of Japan and its society I have developed in that time, I am regularly impressed with the knowledge that his mere 14 years here have allowed him. I know him to be one of the more informed and worth listening to people who populate this forum. I think in this instance an impartial reading of this thread would reveal such an impression to be validated. [quote of and response to now-deleted material in a prior post deleted by senior moderator.]

I think a picture with more clarity has just developed. You were in Roppongi Station, correct? If so, that is one of the more frequent places at which a police officer would find a non-Japanese misbehaving, overstaying, without papers, trying to do things the law says are no go, etc.

I think you had rotten luck in having both incidents occur to you, but looking at the second one in isolation, it is not an uncommon thing at all for police to "discuss" things with westerners in Roppongi. This is one of the hotbeds of minor crimes and the cops are just simply a bit sensitive. They have a police station literally above the ticket machines and their traing center is there too. It is entirely conceiveable that they are running a bit of OJT (on the job training) for their newbies. It is also possible, they are trying to do a joint effort with the immigration folks who on 11/20 became a whole new experience for many of us. It is also very possible that a certain description of a sought after person had been crculated and they thought it best to ask questiuons and not spare the feelings or rights of those who they questioned based on "suss" alone. In any case, I would encourage you to look at that second incident as just bad luck, and see it as mutually exclusive of the first. Of all the stations where something like that might happen, Roppongi as a non-Japanese is possibly one of the most likely.

Mike

closed for housekeeping and review

cblaisd
Senior Moderator

Re-opened.

I like to request that folks a) stay on-topic, and b) post civilly :)

Thanks.

cblaisd
Senior Moderator

This thread has long since run its useful course, anyway. Probably best to just let it die.

Actually, I think mjm (a long-time resident of Tokyo) had some useful insights just before the thread was (temporarily) closed. OP, was it indeed Roppongi Station where all the undercover cops converged on you and your partner?

Yes. The police have very wide reaching powers.

But the foreigner has rights. He has a right to know why the officer wants to inspect his ID. He also has a right to see the police officer's ID. (Except if this is taking place at a police station).

I think it makes sense to exercise these rights and to lodge a complaint about any unreasonable ID request. Imagine if this happens to you three times. By the third time, you're going to be upset. You'll be wondering (like the OP) whether you've been targetted. You will want to persuade the police to leave you alone to do your lawful business. Well, it will be hard to make your case unless you can detail the times, places and names of officers who ID'd you and the reasons they gave for the inspections. It will be much easier to make your case if you can point to official complaints that you previously lodged.

Regarding the inspection at the shuttle bus stop -- I now understand that you were at Narita airport itself (I misunderstood before - thought you were at the Hilton hotel). The situation within "fortress Narita" is a bit special, since it is constantly threatened by domestic and international terrorists. You will notice that everyone (Japanese and foreign) goes through an inspection with ID checks before entering the airport.
If you ask "Why?" at the airport, the police officer will probably name a good enough reason. But I still think it's a good idea to ask "Why?"

I'm far from a non-resident, in fact I'm a permanent resident of Japan. This is my home I'm not visiting. I will not be treated like a second class citizen. My wife is Japanese my children are Japanese, I own property here and I work and pay taxes here. I have very compelling reasons to stay in this country. I take great offence at the likes of you suggesting "I just go home". I AM HOME.:mad:

Huh?? I (caucasion, straight male) have traveled in Japan with male Japanese and non-Japanese friends before, and I've never been stopped. Unless the OP and his partner were holding hands or kissing in public, why would anyone assume they were anything other than regular friends??

FWIW, I've never been stopped by the cops in 12 years of living in Japan. But there does seem to be anecdotal evidence that such incidents are increasing...

This thread probably has run its course. Should have started it in OMNI I suppose.
First incident happened after departing a subway in near Shinjuku station and walking onto the street. Both officers intercepted us during the daytime evening hours while walking down the street with lots of people around. It really seems like they were directed towards us to intercept us and stop us.
2nd was in Roppongi station and the only significant things is it was during the morning rush hour and tons of Japanese were flowing out of the turnstiles. After they were done talking to us they all returned to their locations. One woman put a surgical mask back over her mouth because of the fumes and they all just blended right back in. It was very spooky.
My last comment is not to tell Japan how they should or should not do things (not that they're listening anyway) but simply that it really kind of rattled us a bit since no other countries has ever done this to us.

deleted

This thread is starting to smell like a Big Daikon. :eek: