My wife and I arrive in NRT on April 18th after a 10 day business trip to China, we depart from NRT on April 21st. I know there is not a lot of time which gets worse because she insists on going to Kyoto for a day.

Can anybody suggest an itinerary that does not include the night bus to Kyoto?

Are there flights that I can take from NRT to Kyoto when I arrive and make my way back to Tokyo?

Any suggestions are appreciated.....

Thanks, Mr & Mrs N.U.

The train vs plane debate for travel between Tokyo and Kyoto is a long standing one. Most people on this forum recommend the train (shinkansen - bullet) but there is a strong case for flying too.

Here are some sample threads where it has been discussed at length:
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=527891
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=464795
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=609783 (this one's a monster)
but there are many more.

I'm concerned about you both spending such a short time in Kyoto. One day is barely enough to scratch the surface of this city, even three days would be a short trip.

Economic option
You can get return shinkansen travel to Kyoto from Tokyo with accomodation included at both these websites:
http://www.jtbgmt.com/sunrisetour/
http://www.iace.co.jp/english/fare/pkg/kyoto2007.htm
from 19,500yen for one night and two days in Kyoto
The return rail fare without a JRrail pass would be about 26,000 yen, so it's a considerable saving.
This is for travel on the Hikari bullet train.

The fastest bullet trains are called Nozomi - you can still do the excursion using these trains if you prefer:
http://www.jtbgmt.com/sunrisetour/

Another option, of course, would be to arrive in Japan at NRT(Tokyo) and leave from KIX(near Kyoto)... or vice versa.

I agree with LapLap. You're setting yourself up for a stressful, disappointing trip if you elect to keep this itin.

Stick to Tokyo & plan a second trip back for areas outside Tokyo.

IMHO only, YMMV.

What LapLap said for sure.

Since you are arriving from China you will be in no later than mid afternoon so plenty of time to grab the N'Ex to Tokyo and Shinkansen it on to Kyoto. You will get there for dinner and then probably be very ready to fade. If you really want to enjoy that city, you can do a full day on the 19th and then head back to Tokyo on the 20th. But why? Just do a couple of amazing days and then since you are (I am assuming based on the profile) flying on to North America, you will have plenty of time to get the morning Shinkansen to Tokyo and the N'ex onwards to Narita. That assumes you cannot change your outbound to KIX, which if you can do, will simplify your life even further.

Mike

Thank you all for the replies.

I have already contacted my TA to see if I can change my return to KIX. My wife is flying in J on a reward tik and I already have a confirmed upgrade from NRT. AC has changed its instant KK rules so I am not sure what can be done.

In regards to booking the Nozomi - should this be done upon arrival or is it best to book before leaving Canada.

We have decided that we would rather see a little of both cities and return in the future to properly visit all of Japan.

N.U.

Unless you are a real train buff, and passionate about this, consider this:

A Nozomi train will take 2hours and 20 minutes (27,000yen return trip)

A Hikari train will take 2hours and 37 minutes (and cost about 600yen less)

The best advice would depend on whether you are able to change your inbound or outbound flight to KIX.

If you can't, most sensible and economical course of action would be to grab a two or three day deal from JTB Sunrise (you can book through IACE, I've used them myself and they allow you to book with a foreign credit card - if you're in the USA, they have offices there).
I've spoken to IACE about extending one of these trips so that you use the hotel for the one or two nights and go back by train on a date of your choice and they do allow this.

As this deal limits you a bit as to which trains you can use, if money is no object and you'd prefer to dictate your own timetable then you can just buy your ticket when you arrive in Japan for the Nozomi of your choice. There are plenty of hotels in Kyoto to choose from, if you want some help, just let us know the price range you're looking for and if you'd prefer Western or (generally more expensive) Ryokan/traditional accommodation.

Please jump in someone if any of these dates coincides with a national holiday that Mr. & Mrs. N.U. should be aware of!

So, working through this and assuming you'll be coming in and out of NRT.

My suggestion (with my usual bias towards value for money)

18th April arrive NRT - get the bus to the 4* Takanawa Prince Hotel (Tower view twin room there with great view of Tokyo is 16,000yen through www.utell.com). Limousine bus from NRT doesn't go through hardly any of the city but on the freeways across the bay and takes an hour and 15 minutes - leaves you right at the hotel door - for this hotel, it's much less stressful and quicker than getting the train.

Check out next day and walk across the road to Shinagawa station to get the Hikari you already booked through IACE/Suntours that leaves at 07:20 (you can sleep on the train). Try and get a seat on the right side of the train - facing North - so you can see Mount Fuji. You'll arrive at Kyoto at 09:43 am just as all the temples open (they close early!)

Drop your luggage off at your hotel in Kyoto and go explore. Stay there on the 19th.

Get a train back midday if possible on the 20th. Again, I'd suggest the Takanawa Prince because it's fantastic value for money, right by Shinagawa station and the bus connection makes getting to Narita the next day simple and extremely stress free, even if your flight leaves early.

Shinagawa is on the Yamanote line which means that few parts of Tokyo are more than 30 minutes away. It's an excellent base. If you have luggage, they'll hold it for you whilst you're in Kyoto.


Limousine bus details:
First bus leaves the hotel at 06:35 and arrives at NRT before 8am
http://www.limousinebus.co.jp/en/tim...a_ebisu_h.html


Let us know if you'd prefer cheaper or more deluxe accommodation in Tokyo, there are TONS of alternatives. The Takanawa Prince is just my personal favourite as I believe it represents a great deal - good, ultra convenient location, comfy beds, nice decor and bathrooms, great view, beautiful garden, sensibly priced.

LapLap, again thanks for all your great information.

My employer is picking up the 3 nights hotel stay as well as all meals while in Japan, it is his way of saying thanks for the previous 7 days in China. He suggested the Hyatt, maybe that could give you an idea for price. I will have to pay for the train.....

N.U.

Ah Hah! That puts a completely different twist onto this.

The best of the Hyatts in Tokyo is the Park Hyatt - but with the little time you have I'm reluctant to suggest it, it's neither convenient for NRT nor for Tokyo or Shinagawa stations (from where you'd get the Nozomi to to Kyoto).
I suspect a hotel near Tokyo station might be the best choice for you - it's a little more expensive around there than in Shinagawa, but you'll feel more like you're in the middle of the city which is what you want on such a short stay.

Will your employer be willing to pick up a big tab for a high end Ryokan in Kyoto? That would be magnificent! (If there's an upper limit to your employer's generosity, I'd even venture to suggest that you forfeit the most luxurious Tokyo hotels if it means snagging a top ryokan in Kyoto).

I'm going to leave you in the capable hands of my fellow Japan Forum regulars who will be able to best advise you on the best possible hotels and inns.

(one last thing, as you will be booking your own Nozomi to and from Kyoto, you might want to consider buying the tickets at the JR office at NRT airport itself... unless anyone is aware of concierges that will do it for you....)

Assuming (which may not be the case, I know) that you don't have a compelling reason to be in Tokyo, could you change your itinerary to just enter and leave Japan via KIX and stay in Kyoto? Or just go directly from Narita to Kyoto instead of stopping in Tokyo?

If you just have time to see one major area in Japan, I'd say it should certainly be Kyoto (the whole general area, including Nara and possibly a day trip to Hiroshima and/or Himeji) rather than Tokyo. Tokyo doesn't stand in the same relation to Japan as London does to Rome or Athens to Greece or Paris to France: it's the political and economic center, but it's not really the center and heart of the the culture. Visiting Japan and skipping Tokyo, especially on a first visit, is quite reasonable, at least in my opinion.

I took the Nozomi last week and it was 14,250 yen each way from Tokyo to Osaka return (so 28,500 yen roundtrip). I agree with LapLap that the Hikari train will be less for sure. What about the Kodama, if the OP can take that too?

Sanosuke!

If you want a luxury hotel with convenient access to the Shinkansen (which takes you to Kyoto) I would suggest the Four Seasons Marunouchi. It is immediately next to Tokyo Station.

Park Hyatt and Grand Hyatt are great hotels, but they are not conveniently located for a whistle stop NRT-Kyoto-NRT run.

Since you've decided to come another time, I'd be inclined to skip Kyoto this time.

I hope you didn't forget the newly renovated Prince Shinagawa hotel right by the Shinagawa station?

Sanosuke!

• Checked the "Japanese Holidays" plug-in for Google Calendar - those dates are not holidays, so Mr. & Mrs. Nu should be fine;
• Technically, the JTB Sunrise Shinkansen Tours don't limit you to anything at all. You can ride ANY Nozomi/Hikari/Kodama with the Nozomi package or ANY Hikari/Kodama with the Hikari package - you just can't sit in the reserved seats on any train but the assigned one. This, of course, means that you can do my plan - take the first Shinkansen out in the morning and the 3rd to last one back two or three days later, giving plenty of time to do Osaka, Kyoto, and Nara.

My personal feeling, and I think it's being echoed by others, is that you may really want to choose one of the two regions. It's up to you - Kyoto is the "ancient" Japan foreigners think of, Tokyo is the "anime/modern/bizzaro" Japan foreigners think of. I can tell you that on my first trip, I spent seven days in Kyoto, three in Osaka, and three in Tokyo (but, in the interest of full disclosure, I was studying the "history of performing arts in Japan").

In any case, both areas have a lot that you can do - but you should probably choose one or the other. If you choose Tokyo, you can see what is one of the craziest places on the planet, and you can always do a day in Hakone (for hot springs, views of Fuji-san, and a pirate ship) or Kamakura (for temples and delicious potatoes) in order to get your look at "traditional" Japan. If you chose Kyoto, you can do a day in Osaka (for amazing naninaniyaki), spend some time in Arashiyama, or go to Nara or Uji, too.

Kodama costs as much as Hikari and takes more than one hour longer. Why would you recommend that?

It didn't even cross my mind.
Why do you think that the OP would prefer an inferior hotel (not in the same league as PHT or FSM) in a less convenient location (lower frequency of trains to NRT and Kyoto) - when his boss has offered to pick up the bill for a top-end hotel?

I apologize if your suggestions were well intentioned. But the wink made me wonder if this is all tongue in cheek? The problem is that I can't really tell whether it's tongue in cheek or not - and that makes me think that the OP may spend time and energy looking into suggestions that are really just a joke.