NRT: transfers & timing
Jan 3, 2004 | 8:24 am
#1
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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NRT: transfers & timing
1) We're flying to Beijing through NRT in early April. As the flight in and the flight out are both in terminal 2, I hope we can just walk between gates, rather than go through immigration, etc. Is this right?
2) We're flying back to NRT later in April and want to continue on to Kyoto on the bullet train. Is NRT express to bullet train through Tokyo the best way to go?
3) If plane is scheduled to land in NRT at 1pm, how much time should it take to get to the NRT express to Tokyo? How much time from scheduled Tokyo arrival to Tokaido&Sanyo Shinkansen departure for Kyoto?
4) It seems train reservations can not be made more than a month in advance. Is this right?
5) Finally, it seems a Japan Railpass will not cover the Kyoto bullet train: "The JAPAN RAIL PASS is not valid for any seats, reserved or nonreserved, on "NOZOMI" trains on the Tokaido and San'yo Shinkansen lines." Is this right?
[This message has been edited by richarddd (edited Jan 03, 2004).]
2) We're flying back to NRT later in April and want to continue on to Kyoto on the bullet train. Is NRT express to bullet train through Tokyo the best way to go?
3) If plane is scheduled to land in NRT at 1pm, how much time should it take to get to the NRT express to Tokyo? How much time from scheduled Tokyo arrival to Tokaido&Sanyo Shinkansen departure for Kyoto?
4) It seems train reservations can not be made more than a month in advance. Is this right?
5) Finally, it seems a Japan Railpass will not cover the Kyoto bullet train: "The JAPAN RAIL PASS is not valid for any seats, reserved or nonreserved, on "NOZOMI" trains on the Tokaido and San'yo Shinkansen lines." Is this right?
[This message has been edited by richarddd (edited Jan 03, 2004).]
Jan 3, 2004 | 9:15 am
#2
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1. On my last transfer through NRT, there was no need to go through Imigration.
2. Since you will be getting a train through to Kyoto, the Narita Express (NEX) makes sense.
3. Budget at least three hours. The NEX (like everything else in Tokyo) runs like clockwork but you need to get through immigration (45 minutes for me last May) which in turn may mean missing the NEX train you intended to board and so on.
4. Not sure. I've only ever bought tickets at the station.
2. Since you will be getting a train through to Kyoto, the Narita Express (NEX) makes sense.
3. Budget at least three hours. The NEX (like everything else in Tokyo) runs like clockwork but you need to get through immigration (45 minutes for me last May) which in turn may mean missing the NEX train you intended to board and so on.
4. Not sure. I've only ever bought tickets at the station.
Jan 3, 2004 | 9:36 am
#3
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,673
1) Yes, no immigration.
2) Yes, NEX to Tokyo station, very long climb up to Shinkansen platform, as the NEX stops underground and Shinkansen leave from the top level.
3) The NEX runs twice an hour. Since the JR Pass does not cover the most frequent and fastest Nozomi trains, you'll have to take one of the two Hikari trains running every hour to Kyoto. Between 2 and 8PM, southbound Hikaris currently depart at :06 and :36 after the hour, arriving in Kyoto ~2:46 later.
4) No idea. Unless this is a Japanese holiday, there is no need to make such advance bookings. There are non-reserved cars if you just want to jump on a train.
5) The regular JR pass covers all of Japan. There are other region-specific JR passes (JR West, JR Kyushu) which are not big savings over the regular one.
I recommend:
1. exchange your JR Pass voucher for a pass at Narita
2. go to the ticket counter and get tickets all the way to Kyoto, including the connecting Hikari from Tokyo
3. if you get lost in Tokyo station and miss your Hikari, just get new tickets for the next one.
2) Yes, NEX to Tokyo station, very long climb up to Shinkansen platform, as the NEX stops underground and Shinkansen leave from the top level.
3) The NEX runs twice an hour. Since the JR Pass does not cover the most frequent and fastest Nozomi trains, you'll have to take one of the two Hikari trains running every hour to Kyoto. Between 2 and 8PM, southbound Hikaris currently depart at :06 and :36 after the hour, arriving in Kyoto ~2:46 later.
4) No idea. Unless this is a Japanese holiday, there is no need to make such advance bookings. There are non-reserved cars if you just want to jump on a train.
5) The regular JR pass covers all of Japan. There are other region-specific JR passes (JR West, JR Kyushu) which are not big savings over the regular one.
I recommend:
1. exchange your JR Pass voucher for a pass at Narita
2. go to the ticket counter and get tickets all the way to Kyoto, including the connecting Hikari from Tokyo
3. if you get lost in Tokyo station and miss your Hikari, just get new tickets for the next one.
Jan 3, 2004 | 9:45 am
#4
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,673
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
it seems a Japan Railpass will not cover the Kyoto bullet train: "The JAPAN RAIL PASS is not valid for any seats, reserved or nonreserved, on "NOZOMI" trains on the Tokaido and San'yo Shinkansen lines." Is this right?</font>
it seems a Japan Railpass will not cover the Kyoto bullet train: "The JAPAN RAIL PASS is not valid for any seats, reserved or nonreserved, on "NOZOMI" trains on the Tokaido and San'yo Shinkansen lines." Is this right?</font>
- 'bullet train' = Shinkansen
- there are 3 types of trains running on the Tokaido (Tokyo-Osaka) and Sanyo (Osaka-Hakata) Shinkansen lines
- the fastest, 'Nozomi', is not covered by the JR pass. It is shown in red on Japanese schedules.
- the second fastest, 'Hikari', is. It only takes a few more minutes than a Nozomi, and often uses the same rolling stock. It is shown in blue on Japanese schedules.
- the slowest, 'Kodama', is to be avoided, as it stops at nearly every minor station. Older, slower, one-class rolling stock. It is shown in black on Japanese schedules.
Nozomi and Hikari have 2-2 seating in green cars, 2-3 in regular cars. One-class Kodama and Hikari Railstar (used only on Sanyo Shinkansen) are 2-2.
I find the green pass well worth it.
Jan 3, 2004 | 10:30 am
#5
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,030
Thank you all for the replies. A few more questions
>>Unless this is a Japanese holiday, there is no need to make such advance bookings. There are non-reserved cars if you just want to jump on a train.>>
The exact day is April 19. We'd return to Tokyo a few days later, then fly out on the 26th. Do any of these sound like problem days?
>>the second fastest, 'Hikari', is. It only takes a few more minutes than a Nozomi, and often uses the same rolling stock>>
Looking at the schedule, there seem to be lots of Nozomi and almost no Hikari. The ride seems to take about 2:20 on the Nozomi and 2:40 on the Hikari, which is not much of a difference.
>>I find the green pass well worth it. >>
Do you mean *both* pass v. a la carte and green v. ordinary are worthwhile?
By the way, what does the NRT express cost? I couldn't find it on the web site.
[This message has been edited by richarddd (edited Jan 03, 2004).]
>>Unless this is a Japanese holiday, there is no need to make such advance bookings. There are non-reserved cars if you just want to jump on a train.>>
The exact day is April 19. We'd return to Tokyo a few days later, then fly out on the 26th. Do any of these sound like problem days?
>>the second fastest, 'Hikari', is. It only takes a few more minutes than a Nozomi, and often uses the same rolling stock>>
Looking at the schedule, there seem to be lots of Nozomi and almost no Hikari. The ride seems to take about 2:20 on the Nozomi and 2:40 on the Hikari, which is not much of a difference.
>>I find the green pass well worth it. >>
Do you mean *both* pass v. a la carte and green v. ordinary are worthwhile?
By the way, what does the NRT express cost? I couldn't find it on the web site.
[This message has been edited by richarddd (edited Jan 03, 2004).]
Jan 3, 2004 | 11:08 am
#6
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,673
April 19 and 26, 2004, are normal days in Japan.
The only difference between the Nozomi and the Hikari on the Tokaido Shinkansen is the number of stops, and the fact Hikaris stop to let Nozomis go by. All reach up to 270km/h.
The normal JR Pass pays for itself with a roundtrip to Kyoto. Use it for a few side trips, or during your stay in Tokyo on JR city lines (Yamanote, Chuo, etc.), and you'll come out ahead.
The Green Pass provides additional comfort for not much money. Actually the normal cars are plenty comfortable on the Shinkansen, but more crowded. On the NEX, Green cars have vastly superior legroom.
Some prices:
- Narita-Tokyo: Y2,940/4,980 normal/green
- Tokyo-Kyoto: ~Y13,220 normal, ~Y4,000 more for green
The only difference between the Nozomi and the Hikari on the Tokaido Shinkansen is the number of stops, and the fact Hikaris stop to let Nozomis go by. All reach up to 270km/h.
The normal JR Pass pays for itself with a roundtrip to Kyoto. Use it for a few side trips, or during your stay in Tokyo on JR city lines (Yamanote, Chuo, etc.), and you'll come out ahead.
The Green Pass provides additional comfort for not much money. Actually the normal cars are plenty comfortable on the Shinkansen, but more crowded. On the NEX, Green cars have vastly superior legroom.
Some prices:
- Narita-Tokyo: Y2,940/4,980 normal/green
- Tokyo-Kyoto: ~Y13,220 normal, ~Y4,000 more for green
Jan 3, 2004 | 11:23 am
#7
Join Date: Apr 2001
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However be aware that "Golden Week" starts around the first of May and possibly earlier....I left Japan in 1980 so I'm a bit fuzzy here. You do NOT want to try and travel during Golden week. Three national holidays during one week period.
Jan 4, 2004 | 9:22 am
#8
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,030
JR pass: we're staying 8 days. Kyoto RT plus one NEX is about equal to the JR pass. Sounds worth it if we're going to do any other train travel.
Sounds like it's worth it to go for the green fare.
Golden week: official start is a few days after we leave.
thanks again
Sounds like it's worth it to go for the green fare.
Golden week: official start is a few days after we leave.
thanks again
Jan 4, 2004 | 10:54 am
#9
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The JR pass used to be a major winner, as the majority of the shinkansen on the Hokkaido line were Hikari. Now, due to schedule changes last October -- most of the trains are Nozomi and only a few are Hikari -- the JR pass is a much more difficult decision.
If you fly into Tokyo and out of Osaka (or vice versa), often fares are not much different. Maybe you can arrange your ticket like that? Then you only need to go one way on the train, in which case buying the JR pass isn't worthwhile or necessary.
Connections between Osaka and Kyoto are cheap and frequent -- about 30 minutes long and only cost $5-6. There are also regular direct rail connections from Kyoto to Osaka airport.
If you are up to a mild adventure, try to get someone (your hotel staff, maybe) to show you a "discount shop" where JR tickets are sold at a 10-15% discount. You buy a coupon for cash at the shop and then can trade it in at the JR ticket window for your desired train.
Edited to add:
JR train fares are by distance. Thus if you are buying tickets (no JR pass), it is definitely cheaper to buy your ticket at Narita for the entire trip to Kyoto. However, there are no discount shops at Narita airport as far as I know.
If all you are interested in is Kyoto, you might fly to Osaka instead of Tokyo in one direction and avoid the long train ride entirely (farewise, it might be a better deal even if you have to transfer to Haneda for a domestic flight to Osaka).
[This message has been edited by RichardInSF (edited Jan 04, 2004).]
If you fly into Tokyo and out of Osaka (or vice versa), often fares are not much different. Maybe you can arrange your ticket like that? Then you only need to go one way on the train, in which case buying the JR pass isn't worthwhile or necessary.
Connections between Osaka and Kyoto are cheap and frequent -- about 30 minutes long and only cost $5-6. There are also regular direct rail connections from Kyoto to Osaka airport.
If you are up to a mild adventure, try to get someone (your hotel staff, maybe) to show you a "discount shop" where JR tickets are sold at a 10-15% discount. You buy a coupon for cash at the shop and then can trade it in at the JR ticket window for your desired train.
Edited to add:
JR train fares are by distance. Thus if you are buying tickets (no JR pass), it is definitely cheaper to buy your ticket at Narita for the entire trip to Kyoto. However, there are no discount shops at Narita airport as far as I know.
If all you are interested in is Kyoto, you might fly to Osaka instead of Tokyo in one direction and avoid the long train ride entirely (farewise, it might be a better deal even if you have to transfer to Haneda for a domestic flight to Osaka).
[This message has been edited by RichardInSF (edited Jan 04, 2004).]
Jan 4, 2004 | 11:55 am
#10
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 7,030
Great idea. Alas, we're flying on miles, are already booked, and have both an open jaw and a stop-over, so I don't know if we'll be able to change. But I'll have to look into this.
Where can we find JR pricing for NEX (other than reading monahos's very helpful posts in this thread)? The japanrail web site lists the fares for the bullet train, but I can't find NEX or NEX connections on the JR web site.
Current plan (if we can't fly) is land at NRT, NEX+bullet to Kyoto, pause, bullet back to Tokyo, pause, NEX to NRT.
Where can we find JR pricing for NEX (other than reading monahos's very helpful posts in this thread)? The japanrail web site lists the fares for the bullet train, but I can't find NEX or NEX connections on the JR web site.
Current plan (if we can't fly) is land at NRT, NEX+bullet to Kyoto, pause, bullet back to Tokyo, pause, NEX to NRT.
Jan 4, 2004 | 1:16 pm
#11
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,673
NEX fares
I agree the JR Rail Pass used to be a better deal. However (I used one last November) the twice-hourly Hikari on the Tokaido Shinkansen are frequent enough, and are nowadays less crowded since all the locals take the Nozomi instead.
The major inconvenience is south of Okayama for Green Pass holders, as the only non-Nozomi green cars on the Okayama-Hakata stretch are now Kodama. Every Hikari Railstar I have been on was always packed.
Let's not forget about the many non-Shinkansen trains in the JR network, which make the pass a good value for anyone who has the time to stray off the main north-south routes.
I agree the JR Rail Pass used to be a better deal. However (I used one last November) the twice-hourly Hikari on the Tokaido Shinkansen are frequent enough, and are nowadays less crowded since all the locals take the Nozomi instead.
The major inconvenience is south of Okayama for Green Pass holders, as the only non-Nozomi green cars on the Okayama-Hakata stretch are now Kodama. Every Hikari Railstar I have been on was always packed.
Let's not forget about the many non-Shinkansen trains in the JR network, which make the pass a good value for anyone who has the time to stray off the main north-south routes.
Jan 4, 2004 | 2:22 pm
#12
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Princeton, MO/Tonopah, AZ
Posts: 687
I am now totally confused. I thought the RailPass INCLUDED tranport from NRT to Tokyo. Maybe not the Narita Express, but something other than the local train or bus.
I have spent the whole weekend reading about Japan for my MR in Feb. Planning to spend night at Narita Holiday Inn, take some kind of express train (hopefully with my RailPass) to Tokyo, and board the bullet train as far West as I can go and still get back in time for my flight out. I have 2 full days in Japan (arrive Sat. at 4:00PM, leave Monday at 7:00PM.)
Now you guys threw a loop in my plans (and budget)with your info on the Narita Express. Please clarify. Thanks
I have spent the whole weekend reading about Japan for my MR in Feb. Planning to spend night at Narita Holiday Inn, take some kind of express train (hopefully with my RailPass) to Tokyo, and board the bullet train as far West as I can go and still get back in time for my flight out. I have 2 full days in Japan (arrive Sat. at 4:00PM, leave Monday at 7:00PM.)
Now you guys threw a loop in my plans (and budget)with your info on the Narita Express. Please clarify. Thanks
Jan 4, 2004 | 4:18 pm
#13
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Jan 4, 2004 | 5:05 pm
#14
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,673
greatam, the JR Rail Pass includes the NEX as long as it is activated.
If one stays 8 days in Japan and has a 7 day pass, either the first or last day won't be covered by the pass.
If you plan to get maximum mileage out of your pass, I suggest going all the way to Nagasaki or Sapporo, as the low-speed stretches are quite rewarding. One won't see much from a speeding Shinkansen, especially in the many tunnels on the Sanyo Shinkansen.
The Hakata-Nagasaki run is relatively scenic, and its 'Kamome' train the most stylish I have ever seen. Nagasaki will be mild even in February, and is a pleasant city (nice dinner spots on the new piers too).
The view from the upper deck of the Hakodate-Sapporo 'Super-Hokuto' train is among the best on JR main lines. However Hokkaido will be snowbound at that time of the year, and it takes an entire day to get there.
[This message has been edited by monahos (edited Jan 04, 2004).]
If one stays 8 days in Japan and has a 7 day pass, either the first or last day won't be covered by the pass.
If you plan to get maximum mileage out of your pass, I suggest going all the way to Nagasaki or Sapporo, as the low-speed stretches are quite rewarding. One won't see much from a speeding Shinkansen, especially in the many tunnels on the Sanyo Shinkansen.
The Hakata-Nagasaki run is relatively scenic, and its 'Kamome' train the most stylish I have ever seen. Nagasaki will be mild even in February, and is a pleasant city (nice dinner spots on the new piers too).
The view from the upper deck of the Hakodate-Sapporo 'Super-Hokuto' train is among the best on JR main lines. However Hokkaido will be snowbound at that time of the year, and it takes an entire day to get there.
[This message has been edited by monahos (edited Jan 04, 2004).]
Jan 4, 2004 | 8:39 pm
#15
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My favorite web page for finding Japanese rail fares and schedules is
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/
About the only drawback is you have to spell the station name the exact way the program thinks it is spelled in English transliteration of the Japanese -- and if you get it wrong, the program won't help. But for precise info, this is a great site.
If the date you are going to travel isn't in the site yet, just try the same day of the week closer in to get a good idea -- schedules and fares don't change that often.
http://www.hyperdia.com/cgi-english/
About the only drawback is you have to spell the station name the exact way the program thinks it is spelled in English transliteration of the Japanese -- and if you get it wrong, the program won't help. But for precise info, this is a great site.
If the date you are going to travel isn't in the site yet, just try the same day of the week closer in to get a good idea -- schedules and fares don't change that often.