Mar 5, 2020, 5:17 pm
Last edit by: CPH-Flyer
This thread is for discussion of the coronavirus / COVID-19 pandemic as it relates to Japan. Non-Japan-related discussion should be taken either to the most relevant forum, the Coronavirus and Travel forum, or the OMNI forums.
UPDATE FOR TOURISTS LOOKING TO VISIT JAPAN AFTER COVID-19 BORDER RESTRICTIONS EASE
Japan does currently not allow entry for general tourism purposes. Most visa waivers are suspended, and travel to Japan for non resident foreigners generally require a visa. And quarantine as described for the countries and territories below.
UPDATE FOR PEOPLE WITH VISAS THAT ALLOW ENTRY INTO JAPAN
The quarantine requirements mentioned below will generally apply to entrants in Japan. As the conditions of who can obtain a visa for entry on exceptional circumstances are not clearly listed anywhere, it is necessary to confirm entry requirements with your local Japanese diplomatic representatives
Spouses and children of foreign permanent residents or Japanese nationals, can obtain visas for short term stays (up to 90 days) by applying in person or by mail at an overseas Japanese consulate. Required documentation includes application form, letter with reason for purpose of visit, bank statement and Koseki Tohon. Processing times have been reported as on the spot to up to one week.
From March 1st, business travelers, students and technical trainees can again enter Japan. There is a need to have a receiving organisation to apply for the visa. For business travelers, there will be one point of contact with the Ministry of Health Labour and Welfare. Though the full details are not published yet (as of typing on the 27th of February, please add them if you have seen them)
Business travelers must have a Japanese company or organization apply for a Certificate for Completion of Registration to the MHLW ERFS system. This is a two step process. The company must first register and then apply for the Certificate for the traveler. These can both be done online and completed in less than an hour.The website for doing this is https://entry.hco.mhlw.go.jp/.
After getting the certificate the traveler must apply for visa at the Japanese Consulate or Embassy with jurisdiction for where they reside. (They are quite strict about this. E.g. you can't apply while traveling in a foreign country.) The information on the Consulate pages state that you need Letter of Guarantee, Invitation Letter, etc when applying for the visa. In fact, however, if you have the EFRS certificate, all you need is the visa application, your passport and a photo. The Consulate will issue the visa within 5 days.
UPDATE JAPANESE CITIZENS AND RETURNING FOREIGN JAPAN RESIDENTS
All people travelling to Japan has to present a negative PCR test taking no earlier than. 72 hours before departure to be able to board the flight. The certificate has to meet the information requirements and test types from the Japanese government.
https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/000799426.pdf
From the 7th of June, passport number, nationality, signature and stamp from the doctor/medical institution are no longer required.
The requirement for pre-departure test will be removed for passengers on flights landing after the 7th of September 00:00 provided that they have received a full bases vaccination and a booster vaccination. Accepted vaccines are Moderna, Pfizer, Astra, Zeneca, J&J, Novavax, Covaxin.
Uploading documents in advance via the mysos app or via the mysos website is required. For details please see https://www.hco.mhlw.go.jp/en/
The arrival process is as follows. Countries will be grouped in red, yellow, and blue.
Red countries:
Albania, Sierra Leone
Yellow countries:
Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belarus, Belize, Bhutan, Botswana, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Cabo Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Cook Island, Cuba, Cyprus, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Dominica, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Eswatini, Federated States of Micronesia, Fiji, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Grenada, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, India, Kazakhstan, Kiribati, Kosovo, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Macau, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Namibia, Nauru, Nicaragua, Niger, Niue, North Korea, North Macedonia, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Portugal, Republic of Burundi, Republic of Congo, Republic of the Marshall Islands, Republic of Vanuatu, Saint Christopher and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Solomon, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Ukraine, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vatican, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zimbabwe
Blue countries:
Afghanistan, Algeria, Argentine, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cote d’lvoire, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Ethiopia, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Guatemala, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kyrgyz, Laos, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Palau, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, South Sudan, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Tanzania, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States of America, Western Sahara, Zambia
For updates to the lists of countries and territories and changes to the rules check the website of the ministry of foreign affairs https://www.mofa.go.jp/ca/fna/page4e_001053.html and ask in the thread for clarifications and experiences of entering Japan.
UPDATE FOR TOURISTS LOOKING TO VISIT JAPAN AFTER COVID-19 BORDER RESTRICTIONS EASE
Japan does currently not allow entry for general tourism purposes. Most visa waivers are suspended, and travel to Japan for non resident foreigners generally require a visa. And quarantine as described for the countries and territories below.
UPDATE FOR PEOPLE WITH VISAS THAT ALLOW ENTRY INTO JAPAN
The quarantine requirements mentioned below will generally apply to entrants in Japan. As the conditions of who can obtain a visa for entry on exceptional circumstances are not clearly listed anywhere, it is necessary to confirm entry requirements with your local Japanese diplomatic representatives
Spouses and children of foreign permanent residents or Japanese nationals, can obtain visas for short term stays (up to 90 days) by applying in person or by mail at an overseas Japanese consulate. Required documentation includes application form, letter with reason for purpose of visit, bank statement and Koseki Tohon. Processing times have been reported as on the spot to up to one week.
From March 1st, business travelers, students and technical trainees can again enter Japan. There is a need to have a receiving organisation to apply for the visa. For business travelers, there will be one point of contact with the Ministry of Health Labour and Welfare. Though the full details are not published yet (as of typing on the 27th of February, please add them if you have seen them)
Business travelers must have a Japanese company or organization apply for a Certificate for Completion of Registration to the MHLW ERFS system. This is a two step process. The company must first register and then apply for the Certificate for the traveler. These can both be done online and completed in less than an hour.The website for doing this is https://entry.hco.mhlw.go.jp/.
After getting the certificate the traveler must apply for visa at the Japanese Consulate or Embassy with jurisdiction for where they reside. (They are quite strict about this. E.g. you can't apply while traveling in a foreign country.) The information on the Consulate pages state that you need Letter of Guarantee, Invitation Letter, etc when applying for the visa. In fact, however, if you have the EFRS certificate, all you need is the visa application, your passport and a photo. The Consulate will issue the visa within 5 days.
UPDATE JAPANESE CITIZENS AND RETURNING FOREIGN JAPAN RESIDENTS
All people travelling to Japan has to present a negative PCR test taking no earlier than. 72 hours before departure to be able to board the flight. The certificate has to meet the information requirements and test types from the Japanese government.
https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/000799426.pdf
From the 7th of June, passport number, nationality, signature and stamp from the doctor/medical institution are no longer required.
The requirement for pre-departure test will be removed for passengers on flights landing after the 7th of September 00:00 provided that they have received a full bases vaccination and a booster vaccination. Accepted vaccines are Moderna, Pfizer, Astra, Zeneca, J&J, Novavax, Covaxin.
Uploading documents in advance via the mysos app or via the mysos website is required. For details please see https://www.hco.mhlw.go.jp/en/
The arrival process is as follows. Countries will be grouped in red, yellow, and blue.
- Group “Red”：On-arrival test is required. 3-day quarantine at a government-designated facility is required, however, those who obtain a valid vaccination certificate may have 5-day home quarantine (or 3-day home quarantine + negative result of a voluntary test) instead.
- Group “Yellow”：On-arrival test and 5-day home quarantine (or 3-day home quarantine + negative result of a voluntary test) are required, however, those who obtain a valid vaccination certificate are not required to have on-arrival test, home quarantine and other measures.
- Group “Blue”：Regardless of the vaccination status of the entrants/returnees, on-arrival test, home quarantine and other measures are not required.
Red countries:
Albania, Sierra Leone
Yellow countries:
Andorra, Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belarus, Belize, Bhutan, Botswana, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Cabo Verde, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Cook Island, Cuba, Cyprus, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Dominica, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Eswatini, Federated States of Micronesia, Fiji, Gabon, Gambia, Georgia, Grenada, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, India, Kazakhstan, Kiribati, Kosovo, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Macau, Maldives, Mali, Malta, Mauritania, Mauritius, Namibia, Nauru, Nicaragua, Niger, Niue, North Korea, North Macedonia, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Portugal, Republic of Burundi, Republic of Congo, Republic of the Marshall Islands, Republic of Vanuatu, Saint Christopher and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Solomon, Somalia, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Tuvalu, Ukraine, Uruguay, Uzbekistan, Vatican, Venezuela, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zimbabwe
Blue countries:
Afghanistan, Algeria, Argentine, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cote d’lvoire, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Ethiopia, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Guatemala, Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kyrgyz, Laos, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Mongolia, Montenegro, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria, Norway, Palau, Panama, Papua New Guinea, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Romania, Russia, Rwanda, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, South Sudan, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Tanzania, Thailand, Timor-Leste, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States of America, Western Sahara, Zambia
For updates to the lists of countries and territories and changes to the rules check the website of the ministry of foreign affairs https://www.mofa.go.jp/ca/fna/page4e_001053.html and ask in the thread for clarifications and experiences of entering Japan.
Coronavirus impact in Japan [consolidated]
Oct 18, 2021, 11:56 pm
#6256
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Metal Card (OWE), SAS Eurobonus Gold (*G), Marriott Titanium (LTP), Tokyu Hotels Platinum
Posts: 21,166
The government is unfortunately giving mixed official messages. For example the website of the Japanese Embassy in the US says: "While the Visa exemption measure to U.S. citizens has NOT been suspended, those U.S. citizens who intend to newly enter Japan without a proper entry visa will, in principle, be subject to “Denial of Permission to Enter.”" - the latter half of that sentence is not actually true but it's what they are advertising...
Oct 19, 2021, 3:51 am
#6257
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: BA Silver, ANA Mileage Club
Posts: 155
Anyone want to speculate when the 10-day quarantine will be lifted? I am currently in Tokyo but will be going to Thailand in December, anticipating I will have to return and quarantine for 10 days.
Also, I will be flying back to NRT. Any suggestions on how to get back to my apartment in central Tokyo without going on the train / breaking the rules of the quarantine? Thanks!
Also, I will be flying back to NRT. Any suggestions on how to get back to my apartment in central Tokyo without going on the train / breaking the rules of the quarantine? Thanks!
Oct 19, 2021, 3:57 am
#6258
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 1A
Programs: UA GS, NH Diamond, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist (formerly Courtesy Card sadly), Amanjunkie, CLEAR
Posts: 3,713
Late summer. It was back when they only checked in on you once a day during quarantine, so you could practically hang out at your home or hotel until they called and then go out without getting caught (my understanding is that this tightened up shortly thereafter and they do multiple random daily checks now).
GPS checks appear to be between 9am and 7pm at this time.
Oct 19, 2021, 6:26 am
#6259
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Hyatt Discoverist, SEIBU PRINCE CLUB Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 20,436
As of now, is there a better country in the world for the unvaccinated than Japan?
Cases are way down to levels not seen since the start of the second wave last summer. Overall vaccination rate pretty high, and most are fairly recent, meaning things have gotten pretty safe even for the unvaccinated at this point. Beyond ubiquitous mask wearing (which is the same for everyone regardless of vaccination), life in the country is largely back to normal, and getting even more normal from next week.
Meanwhile, lack of vaccination cannot be used as a means for one's employer to dismiss them (they can't even legally ask about vaccination status), and pretty much any place or service that's available to a vaccinated person remains available to the unvaccinated as well. Certainly can't say the same about "the land of the free", or any other first world country for that matter.
Cases are way down to levels not seen since the start of the second wave last summer. Overall vaccination rate pretty high, and most are fairly recent, meaning things have gotten pretty safe even for the unvaccinated at this point. Beyond ubiquitous mask wearing (which is the same for everyone regardless of vaccination), life in the country is largely back to normal, and getting even more normal from next week.
Meanwhile, lack of vaccination cannot be used as a means for one's employer to dismiss them (they can't even legally ask about vaccination status), and pretty much any place or service that's available to a vaccinated person remains available to the unvaccinated as well. Certainly can't say the same about "the land of the free", or any other first world country for that matter.
Oct 19, 2021, 6:38 am
#6260
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 813
As of now, is there a better country in the world for the unvaccinated than Japan?
Cases are way down to levels not seen since the start of the second wave last summer. Overall vaccination rate pretty high, and most are fairly recent, meaning things have gotten pretty safe even for the unvaccinated at this point. Beyond ubiquitous mask wearing (which is the same for everyone regardless of vaccination), life in the country is largely back to normal, and getting even more normal from next week.
Meanwhile, lack of vaccination cannot be used as a means for one's employer to dismiss them (they can't even legally ask about vaccination status), and pretty much any place or service that's available to a vaccinated person remains available to the unvaccinated as well. Certainly can't say the same about "the land of the free", or any other first world country for that matter.
Cases are way down to levels not seen since the start of the second wave last summer. Overall vaccination rate pretty high, and most are fairly recent, meaning things have gotten pretty safe even for the unvaccinated at this point. Beyond ubiquitous mask wearing (which is the same for everyone regardless of vaccination), life in the country is largely back to normal, and getting even more normal from next week.
Meanwhile, lack of vaccination cannot be used as a means for one's employer to dismiss them (they can't even legally ask about vaccination status), and pretty much any place or service that's available to a vaccinated person remains available to the unvaccinated as well. Certainly can't say the same about "the land of the free", or any other first world country for that matter.
Oct 19, 2021, 7:03 am
#6261
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: 1A
Programs: UA GS, NH Diamond, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist (formerly Courtesy Card sadly), Amanjunkie, CLEAR
Posts: 3,713
As of now, is there a better country in the world for the unvaccinated than Japan?
Cases are way down to levels not seen since the start of the second wave last summer. Overall vaccination rate pretty high, and most are fairly recent, meaning things have gotten pretty safe even for the unvaccinated at this point. Beyond ubiquitous mask wearing (which is the same for everyone regardless of vaccination), life in the country is largely back to normal, and getting even more normal from next week.
Meanwhile, lack of vaccination cannot be used as a means for one's employer to dismiss them (they can't even legally ask about vaccination status), and pretty much any place or service that's available to a vaccinated person remains available to the unvaccinated as well. Certainly can't say the same about "the land of the free", or any other first world country for that matter.
Cases are way down to levels not seen since the start of the second wave last summer. Overall vaccination rate pretty high, and most are fairly recent, meaning things have gotten pretty safe even for the unvaccinated at this point. Beyond ubiquitous mask wearing (which is the same for everyone regardless of vaccination), life in the country is largely back to normal, and getting even more normal from next week.
Meanwhile, lack of vaccination cannot be used as a means for one's employer to dismiss them (they can't even legally ask about vaccination status), and pretty much any place or service that's available to a vaccinated person remains available to the unvaccinated as well. Certainly can't say the same about "the land of the free", or any other first world country for that matter.
Also concur with the above post. We have nothing to be proud of here. I am ashamed of what’s happened in Japan over the past 18 months. Ditto America from where I hail. Just because things are getting better, doesn’t mean we get to excuse past mistakes… accountability is key and unfortunately has gone by the wayside in many first world countries including Japan and America.
Oct 19, 2021, 7:38 am
#6262
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Japan/Thailand
Programs: AS, UA
Posts: 1,201
As of now, is there a better country in the world for the unvaccinated than Japan?
Cases are way down to levels not seen since the start of the second wave last summer. Overall vaccination rate pretty high, and most are fairly recent, meaning things have gotten pretty safe even for the unvaccinated at this point. Beyond ubiquitous mask wearing (which is the same for everyone regardless of vaccination), life in the country is largely back to normal, and getting even more normal from next week.
Meanwhile, lack of vaccination cannot be used as a means for one's employer to dismiss them (they can't even legally ask about vaccination status), and pretty much any place or service that's available to a vaccinated person remains available to the unvaccinated as well. Certainly can't say the same about "the land of the free", or any other first world country for that matter.
Cases are way down to levels not seen since the start of the second wave last summer. Overall vaccination rate pretty high, and most are fairly recent, meaning things have gotten pretty safe even for the unvaccinated at this point. Beyond ubiquitous mask wearing (which is the same for everyone regardless of vaccination), life in the country is largely back to normal, and getting even more normal from next week.
Meanwhile, lack of vaccination cannot be used as a means for one's employer to dismiss them (they can't even legally ask about vaccination status), and pretty much any place or service that's available to a vaccinated person remains available to the unvaccinated as well. Certainly can't say the same about "the land of the free", or any other first world country for that matter.
By your metric, over the past year the 'best' country to be unvaccinated in has variously been America, several European countries, and probably others at different moments in time, in the short period of time where vaccination rates are high but not quite high enough that broad mandates are feasible.
Last edited by bpe; Oct 19, 2021 at 7:43 am Reason: fix wording
Oct 19, 2021, 9:07 am
#6263
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: TYO / WAS / NYC
Programs: American Express got a hit man lookin' for me
Posts: 4,596
No, that is true but that part is worded a bit strangely. It simply means that the list of 150+ countries in which you cannot have resided in the past 14 days applies. See https://www.mofa.go.jp/ca/fna/page4e....html#section1 section 1, titled "Denial of permission to entry".
Another example: MOFA says "all foreign nationals who wish to newly enter Japan need to apply for a visa except for those with re-entry permit" (heading 7). Again - not actually the case. Maybe it's what the bureaucrats intended but the spaghetti-like way in which they crafted the restrictions left holes open.
Oct 19, 2021, 10:22 am
#6264
Join Date: May 2009
Location: AMS
Posts: 2,064
They could've written it in a clearer way, yes. Maybe they are for some reason unable to close the holes and are trying to obfuscate their existence.
I'm still wondering why those holes even exist. I thought it might be a SOFA thing but then I realised that it was about more countries than just the US and I couldn't find any relation between them.
I'm still wondering why those holes even exist. I thought it might be a SOFA thing but then I realised that it was about more countries than just the US and I couldn't find any relation between them.
Oct 19, 2021, 11:14 am
#6265
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,970
There's another aspect to this that's not clear to me. I didn't know that the Visa Waiver was still in place for US citizens until reading this thread, partially because of true but misleading statements such as the above. I've also read several times in the press about how Japan is "closed to tourism." I don't know if this also is something that's not literally true, or just something that's true for the most part. More specifically, if a US citizen were to do what's described above by taking a VTL flight to Singapore, stay there 14 days, then take a non-stop flight to Japan, would the purpose of the visit matter? The landing form asks for Purpose of Visit, and the checkbox options are Tourism, Business, Visiting Relatives, Transit, or Other. The first three are all going to map to Temporary Visitor landing permission. In the current situation, would it matter whether your visit was for Tourism or Business?
Oct 19, 2021, 4:40 pm
#6266
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Bonvoy Titanium Elite
Posts: 1,968
Has anyone heard any movement on approval of J&J/Janssen in Japan (shot I got vax'd with), not necessarily for citizens, but for considering tourists as vax'd? I've only found websites (Japanese & English) from May showing it's going through trials, and another doc listing AstraZenica/Pfizer/Moderna as approved, but not J&J.
Oct 19, 2021, 5:09 pm
#6267
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 12
double post
Last edited by Alleycats; Oct 19, 2021 at 8:55 pm
Oct 19, 2021, 8:55 pm
#6268
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 12
This is the key question. the only way to find the answer is for someone to test it.
Oct 19, 2021, 9:48 pm
#6269
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,304
My partner's parent recently entered South Korea with quarantine exemption under October 5th, 2021 guidelines including full vaccination with booster, negative PCR result, and as a former national (probably with family registry papers) who is also visiting qualified family. Thought I'd mention this in case you'd qualify.
Oct 19, 2021, 9:55 pm
#6270
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Japan/Thailand
Programs: AS, UA
Posts: 1,201
They could've written it in a clearer way, yes. Maybe they are for some reason unable to close the holes and are trying to obfuscate their existence.
I'm still wondering why those holes even exist. I thought it might be a SOFA thing but then I realised that it was about more countries than just the US and I couldn't find any relation between them.
I'm still wondering why those holes even exist. I thought it might be a SOFA thing but then I realised that it was about more countries than just the US and I couldn't find any relation between them.
And for a non-citizen, entry is ultimately at the discretion of the immigration officers and not guaranteed. If you come in and say the purpose is just tourism, the immigration officer may well turn you away and you won't really have any recourse.