ksandness

A travel agent once told me that she felt as if airlines set their fares by using a dartboard. That's how hard it is to figure out why airline pricing works the way it does. I once went to the Canada forum to ask a question on behalf of some friends who were going to join a study tour to Nunavut. They were appalled at the airfare, even out of Winnipeg, and the Canada forum assured me that these fares were the normal ones, even though, or especially because, people up there are dependent on air travel.

As an example of weird pricing, on one of my Minneapolis to Tokyo trips, a DL search brought up a cheap ticket, but it would have required going MSP>SEA>JFK>NRT. It was cheaper than either MSP>SEA>NRT or MSP>JFK>NRT. Go figure. I decided to take a more sensible routing via LAX.

Over the years, I have found that flying out of LAX gives me the cheapest trans-Pacific fares, cheap enough that I can fly MSP>LAX on whichever airline offers the best schedule and fare, spend the night near LAX, and take one of the Asian airlines (or UA in a pinch) for about $400 less than it would cost to fly nonstop on Delta. Or maybe the best rate is flying out of LAX and back into SFO. It makes no sense, and you just have to keep checking back.

yhm71

Can’t say why it’s so expensive. I would not do separate tickets as you would not be protected if a delay on the first flight caused you to miss the second one.

Daytona

You didn't list the prices you found, but from your post:
There is almost 7k savings going through ICN vs direct to Tokyo

So it implies the nonstop ticket is 3500 more expensive than the 1-stop flight.

But...
On momondo I found a 1-stop AC/OZ itinerary for 3400ish per ticket.
There is a non-stop JL flight for 3700ish per ticket.
And if you want to stick with Star Alliance, NH can do it for 3900.
A nonstop AC flight is listed at 4200.

So maybe give momondo a spin?

ainternational

Folks, it’s shockingly simple. Supply and demand. Many people want to fly this route (remember, Apple employees alone fill 45 seats in J a day ex SFO to China, let alone Japan and other places in Asia), so they can get away with charging more for the tickets. Same reason why housing prices are out of control in markets like SF.

It really is that simple.

YVRYEGYVR

Part of that is true but also this is the first time I've been in this situation, going yearly YVR-NRT direct with AC for past few years. Always happy to pay little premium for the direct (although I'll specifically state it is not a premium to fly AC J which I don't like but use due to me being Canadian eh).

Its just this time the price difference is so ridiculous.

I doubt there are that many apple, or any tech giant co, driving the price for YVR-NRT daily via AC.

I know airline prices make no sense, but this year its particularly frustrating!

I'll check out momondo, and likely end up going through ICN. I won't mind the connection, get to try out a new airport and lounge, and if I can land into HND and spare N'EX I'll be happy.

O Sora

Hi, OP.

The cheapest is looking like on MU and CA. 2100USD.

evergrn

JAL and ANA are both ~$4200 USD nonstop. Isn't that sort of normal for YVR-TYO?
YVR-HKG is usually cheaper.


Those are very long layovers in mainland China both ways, though. I'd rather fly PE on ANA nonstop.

TA

I have posted / asked on this topic before and the / an unsatisfactory answer simply seems to be that because the market can command it, airlines providing nonstop USA-Japan fares price them high to take advantage.
What drives US-Japan airfares constantly much higher than average Asia?

If you're willing to transfer through S. Korea, Taiwan, HK, or China (last resort), that may be what you have to do to achieve the fare you want.

ksandness

Winter flights are always cheaper. Back when I was still teaching on the university level, I used to see roundtrips as low as $600 from PDX/SEA in January (this was over 20 years ago, but it was dirt cheap, even then), but my teaching duties prevented me from taking advantage of these bargains.

joejones

IME, there are basically three cheap periods for US-Japan tickets:

• Early January through the end of March
• Mid-May through early June (the period after Japan's Golden Week but before US summer vacation)
• September through early December (including US Thanksgiving week, but possibly excluding Japanese "Silver Week" holidays depending on how well aligned they are to facilitate vacations)

But business and premium economy fares seem to vary less by season.

acregal

There are cheaper periods, but at least from Japan - US, cheaper doesn't mean cheap and fares have been consistently high for some time.

Wife and I went to ORD in November - Osaka - ORD was $1500, but ICN - ORD was $800 ($1000 including KIX-ICN segments). These were both on United without crazy layovers. Looking at random times next year, I see the exact same thing - from ICN is substantially cheaper.

5khours

It's basically a half century of collusion between the Japanese carriers, the U.S. carriers, and their respective regulatory agencies.

acregal

I'd say it isn't limited to just airlines - I honestly think Japanese people are kind of abused by companies, both Japanese and non-Japanese. Prices in Japan are substantially more for no apparent reason (although there are some companies, both Japanese and non-Japanese) that charge similar prices.

It is OT but my wife, who is Japanese, says the government doesn't want people to really understand English, as doing so will give them the ability to understand things outside Japan.

joejones

YMMV on this one depending on routes and times. I just compared mid-week fares in January to/from my home city (WAS) and the cheapest options without crazy layovers are $1100 on AC WAS-TYO versus $1279 on KE WAS-SEL. In the other direction the difference is even more stark... TYO-WAS is $1319 on AC while SEL-WAS is $2000 on KE.

My experience about living costs is quite contrary to yours -- I find that nowadays, many things are cheaper in Japan than in the northeastern US: restaurant meals, hotels, public transit fares, etc. are all more expensive in NYC or DC than in Tokyo. Some things are even cheaper in Osaka of course.

skyfly58

1) besides japan air and ANA, there are other nonstop airlines you can try. 2) japan is popular as tourist destination now 3) check 1 way cost From japan to US. Costs japanese way more.