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-   -   Shinkansen Gran Class (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/1893640-shinkansen-gran-class.html)

Nagasaki Joe Jul 19, 2022 6:25 pm


Originally Posted by ainternational (Post 34435677)
I have a tangentially related question for those who speak (some) Japanese. Is “gran” sometimes used interchangeably to mean “grand”? Such as an NHK “gran sponsor” on a TV show or the Shinkansen “gran class”? Or is there a completely different and separate meaning unrelated to the English word “grand”? Since the Japanese love to shorten everything (make up becomes make for example), it seemed natural that gran may be short for grand. But I leave it up to the linguistic experts here to educate us all.

I think your question has been answered, but I'll chime in too, for what it's worth. When spoken fast enough, "Goran no sponsa" runs together and can sound like "Gran Sponsor" to the untrained ear, so that's probably what you heard but it has nothing to do with the word "Gran". In my early days in Japan, the commonly used phrase 実施中(jisshi chu) in TV commercials to mean that some sales campaign is "now underway" always sounded to me like the Japanese pronunciation for "beef stew" (ビーフシチュー) and confused me, so I understand your confusion.

jib71 Jul 19, 2022 6:41 pm

They're not offering juicy stew?

ainternational Jul 19, 2022 9:51 pm


Originally Posted by Nagasaki Joe (Post 34440777)
I think your question has been answered, but I'll chime in too, for what it's worth. When spoken fast enough, "Goran no sponsa" runs together and can sound like "Gran Sponsor" to the untrained ear, so that's probably what you heard but it has nothing to do with the word "Gran". In my early days in Japan, the commonly used phrase 実施中(jisshi chu) in TV commercials to mean that some sales campaign is "now underway" always sounded to me like the Japanese pronunciation for "beef stew" (ビーフシチュー) and confused me, so I understand your confusion.

I think you’re right. So NHK isn’t saying “grand” by English definition but what about the Shinkansen?

Q Shoe Guy Jul 19, 2022 10:20 pm


Originally Posted by ainternational (Post 34441111)
I think you’re right. So NHK isn’t saying “grand” by English definition but what about the Shinkansen?

At least 4 of us are "right".......I used think the elevators were saying "Gweditbairibus" , when they were actually saying "Ue ni mairimasu". :D

Nagasaki Joe Jul 19, 2022 10:53 pm


Originally Posted by ainternational (Post 34441111)
I think you’re right. So NHK isn’t saying “grand” by English definition but what about the Shinkansen?

In some Japanese dictionaries, you'll find that グランド (grand) and グラン (gran) are listed together to mean "large," "big" or "important". Jib71 touches on it above, for example, Grand Prix in Japanese is written グランプリ (Gran Pree) with a silent "d" just as the original French is pronounced, so you can think of "gran" and "grand" as meaning the same. So "Gran Class" on the Shinkansen is an "important" (VIP) class.

ainternational Jul 19, 2022 11:10 pm


Originally Posted by Nagasaki Joe (Post 34441196)
In some Japanese dictionaries, you'll find that グランド (grand) and グラン (gran) are listed together to mean "large," "big" or "important". Jib71 touches on it above, for example, Grand Prix in Japanese is written グランプリ (Gran Pree) with a silent "d" just as the original French is pronounced, so you can think of "gran" and "grand" as meaning the same. So "Gran Class" on the Shinkansen is an "important" (VIP) class.

Interestingly, “gran” in French translates to “great” in English.

Thanks for the reply, that helps clarify things. Appreciate it.

Objectivelyreal Jul 24, 2022 1:47 am


Originally Posted by ETHFlyer (Post 29443455)
You can still use gran class with a jr pass, you just have to pay the $80 upgrade fee. It’s not worth it unless you want to experience it for the hell of it. And taking the train to Sapporo is only recommended if you have tons of time, it is a pretty long journey.

It IS worth it.


Originally Posted by JapanFlyerT (Post 34430869)
I doubt it tops the Seven Stars.

https://www.cruisetrain-sevenstars.jp/english/

That’s not a regular run. That’s a tourist cruise!

JapanFlyerT Jul 24, 2022 5:58 pm


Originally Posted by Nagasaki Joe (Post 34440777)
I think your question has been answered, but I'll chime in too, for what it's worth. When spoken fast enough, "Goran no sponsa" runs together and can sound like "Gran Sponsor" to the untrained ear, so that's probably what you heard but it has nothing to do with the word "Gran". In my early days in Japan, the commonly used phrase 実施中(jisshi chu) in TV commercials to mean that some sales campaign is "now underway" always sounded to me like the Japanese pronunciation for "beef stew" (ビーフシチュー) and confused me, so I understand your confusion.

For decades I too thought it was Gran Sponsor (as opposed to lessor sponsors)

5khours Jul 24, 2022 9:03 pm


Originally Posted by Objectivelyreal (Post 34452683)
It IS worth it.

Definitely not.

Objectivelyreal Jul 25, 2022 2:48 am


Originally Posted by 5khours (Post 34454973)
Definitely not.

Try it. Best regularly scheduled train seat on the planet. By planet, for you extraterrestrials out there, I mean Terra.

5khours Jul 25, 2022 3:06 am


Originally Posted by Objectivelyreal (Post 34455376)
Try it. Best regularly scheduled train seat on the planet. By planet, for you extraterrestrials out there, I mean Terra.

As commented below, I rode it a couple of dozen times earlier this year.

freecia Jul 25, 2022 11:16 pm


Originally Posted by Objectivelyreal (Post 34455376)
Try it. Best regularly scheduled train seat on the planet. By planet, for you extraterrestrials out there, I mean Terra.

There are a number of compartments on regularly scheduled non-overnight non-cruise trains in Japan. Some are very nice.

I'm a bit partial to JR Kyushu, especially the sightseeing trains. But the other JR regionals have also come up with some really nice competition. I'd love to ride the Iyonada Monogatari again in the Green Suite with the 270 + virtual back view https://youtu.be/zstQ4O9D8Fo?t=1051

You might enjoy Solo Solo Travel and Kuga's Travel on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTp4KZmCI90
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDa...kDtbRmdlqBD3g/

If you like watching in Japanese, Suit Train has a lot of JP train videos over many years, routes, and classes.
The posh stuff https://www.youtube.com/c/%E6%97%85%...8F%AF%E3%81%AA

Food wise, there are sightseeing trains with food emphasis. Aru Ressha 或る列車 aka "Sweets Train" is pretty impressive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFNTDLoAqu4

Some people on the Japan FT started riding the JP rails when dining cars were more a thing and have shared photos, so I can see why the Gran Class food doesn't tip it into the "worth it" category for them.

Objectivelyreal Jul 26, 2022 1:21 am


Originally Posted by freecia (Post 34458489)
There are a number of compartments on regularly scheduled non-overnight non-cruise trains in Japan. Some are very nice.

I'm a bit partial to JR Kyushu, especially the sightseeing trains. But the other JR regionals have also come up with some really nice competition. I'd love to ride the Iyonada Monogatari again in the Green Suite with the 270 + virtual back view https://youtu.be/zstQ4O9D8Fo?t=1051

You might enjoy Solo Solo Travel and Kuga's Travel on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTp4KZmCI90
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDa...kDtbRmdlqBD3g/

If you like watching in Japanese, Suit Train has a lot of JP train videos over many years, routes, and classes.
The posh stuff https://www.youtube.com/c/%E6%97%85%...8F%AF%E3%81%AA

Food wise, there are sightseeing trains with food emphasis. Aru Ressha 或る列車 aka "Sweets Train" is pretty impressive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFNTDLoAqu4

Some people on the Japan FT started riding the JP rails when dining cars were more a thing and have shared photos, so I can see why the Gran Class food doesn't tip it into the "worth it" category for them.

These are all mostly irregularly-scheduled scenic tourist trains and are not to be compared with regular commuter and long-distance trains.

Gran Class has to be compared with other train cars that ride the rails NOW! Not everyone had the opportunity to meet Agatha Christie on the Orient Express in 1927.

The Narita Express had four-person private compartments in the late 1990s. Do these still exist? (I chose to take the Keisei Skyliner when I discovered that it was cheaper and faster and cleaner!)
Still - Not even close to Gran Class.

jib71 Jul 26, 2022 5:31 am

Train travel appears to be getting more luxurious in many places. I would like to try the Swiss Glacier Express:
Glacier Express - Excellence Class
Frecciarossa - Executive Class
China Railway - Business Class

Pickles Jul 26, 2022 9:40 am


Originally Posted by kaku_jinbutsu (Post 34437567)
I had always assumed that the Shinkansen class of service came from the French “grand” (pronounced “gran”). I think it’s unrelated to the NHK ご覧のスポンサー (“go-ran no suponsa,” “the sponsors that you see (here)”)

Not to get into possibly misguided pedanterizations, but I always understood the ご覧のスポンサー translated as the sponsors of the show that you (the esteemed viewer) is ご覧nning, as 覧 means to view or peruse (or even read something, like a pamphlet or an instruction manual). So the 覧 refers to the TV program being viewed, that is sponsored by the list of companies mentioned right after.


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