O Sora

Seven Bank 200k ->100k JPY
Enet 200k -> 40k JPY
Japan Post Bank 100k ->(considering lowering)

Source in にほんご
http://diamond.jp/articles/-/92351
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/economy/201...YT1T50131.html

keihin_242

Hope they don't make the JP Post ATM hours even more restrictive.

LCUF

I think regular ATM cash withdrawal limit is 500 USD anyway so that would be fine for now? At least the debit card I have.

msb0b

Isn't the root cause that the Japanese ATM do not debit from accounts in real time?

Last month my withdrawal from a Seven bank ATM took over 3 days to show up in my US-based bank account, even though the receipt showed the correct balance available. On unrelated note, my ATM card didn't work in a Japan Post Bank ATM but worked in the Seven bank ATM right next to it.

At least the new lower withdraw limit will make it harder to withdraw the entire balance of your checking account.

railroadtycoon

Probably the limit set by your bank as a daily withdrawal limit. My card had a little higher daily withdrawal limit (which was different from the domestic daily limit).

I use my domestic cards now, but one thing I remember about 7-11 ATMs is when you use an international card is that you could only take out 10,000yen increments at a time, so you could take out 20,000 yen, but not 25,000 yen, you had to take out 30,000 yen.

Domestic issue cards you can take out 1000yen increments. JP Post allows 1000yen increments with international card as well.

AlwaysAisle

This incident is making news because it was very well executed organized crime, some big time underground crime organization is suspected to be behind this incident.

Total of 1.86 billion yen (US$ 17.4 million or € 15.2 million) was withdrawn from Japanese ATM. The incident happened on May 15 between 5 a.m. and 8 a.m. at 1700 ATMs in Japan. All withdraws were all related to credit card issued by Standard Bank in South Africa. Standard Bank acknowledged that their credit card information was leaked to outside. There were few people arrested in Japan in connection to this incident, pictures taken from ATM’s camera lead to few arrests and suspects belong to motor bike gangs.

The evidence collected from these suspects showed simple flat plastic piece with size and thickness of credit card with magnetic tape placed on the plastic, where the magnetic tape contained credit card information from Standard Bank.

Police is suspecting large international crime organization is behind this and recruited this many people in Japan to withdraw cash from ATMs in Japan at specific time.

msb0b

I was able to get 4x Fukuzawas and 8x Noguchis from the Seven Bank ATM at NRT last month. Maybe it's different in the convenience stores.

Looking at Seven Bank's guide, step 6 shows preset amounts in 10,000 yen increments. I touched Other Amount and entered 48,000.

Also the step 6 screen shows limit of 100,000 yen but the footnote 1 says the limit is 50,000 yen.

acregal

Japanese ATMs have always debited my US accounts in real time. Sometimes it takes a few days for fees to be added but the actual amount is always debited then. I highly suspect that your bank isn't updating things in real time.

The thing that nobody has explained is that, while articles imply that 7 Bank has to bear the losses from this, why they have to bear losses when they were presented with valid cards and pins.

889

Well, they weren't presented with valid cards, apparently.

And while I don't know the actual legal arrangements among the parties on these networks, it doesn't seem odd to me that the loss would fall on 7 Bank. This isn't that much different to when a bank pays out on a check with a forged signature, in which case it's traditionally the bank that first paid out on the check that bears the loss, not the bank on which it's drawn or the account holder. But again, the contracts under which these networks operate may provide different rules.

mapleg

That's you card's rule, not mine.

LCUF

Then whoever wants to withdraw more than the max limit set by the banks will have to withdraw from more than one ATM, each with different bank.

acregal

The cards were valid - hence money was able to be withdrawn.

The situation here is more akin to a situation in which the bank is basically clearing a ton of fraudulent checks.

889

"The evidence collected from these suspects showed simple flat plastic piece with size and thickness of credit card with magnetic tape placed on the plastic, where the magnetic tape contained credit card information from Standard Bank."

At best, a device that mimicked a valid card.

I don't believe cards with chips could be mimicked in this fashion.

photaco

Why do people think Seven Bank is taking the loss? I thought Standard Bank already confirmed they took the loss...

edit: I mean think about it, these are credit cards (cash advance) needing a PIN, right? I'm pretty sure I've never successfully withdrawn cash from a Seven Bank ATM with a bad PIN... granted that would have been on a debit card, not credit card. I can't imagine how Seven Bank could shoulder more fault than Standard Bank for this.

AlwaysAisle

I am guessing anything involving this much amount of money is never this easy and straight forward in corporate world. It is possible transaction was online and electronically money was taken out from Standard Bank in real time when ATM fraud took place.

However, I am guessing that Standard Bank, Seven Bank, and also likely insurance companies of each bank involved all will be blaming, negotiating, etc. even possible lawsuits about who will ended up stuck with how much of damage. These will keep corporate lawyers from each company very busy for long time, job security for corporate lawyers.

I have seen in simple bankruptcy situation for a large corporation, after more than 10 years of filing for a bankruptcy layers are still working on asset allocations regarding who gets what and how much…

Case of valid card or not, I think this will ended up in argument based on individual’s definition of “valid.” It was fake card with credit card information, the card was not issued by Standard Bank. ATM machines simply could not detect that those cards were fake. Just because somebody successfully used counterfeit money does not make that counterfeit money into “valid” money. But again this argument will boils down to each personal definition of “valid.” One can argue that a person successfully withdrew money using this card, then it makes this card into “valid” card.