Mickidon

I just posted a review of Tawaraya on TA and thought I'd share a few overall comments here on FT. This is reflective of a westerner's point of view, so that needs to be kept in mind.

First of all, I am a Japan-ophile, having spent a lot of time in the country and speaking the language a bit. Despite that, probably owing to my sybaritic inclinations, I have never stayed in a ryokan. Finally, on our most recent visit, we finally can check off the box, with a one night stay at Tawaraya.

While we are very happy to have had the experience, it was a one and done
thing. For us, we viewed it more as a cultural immersion, not lodging, and that
was key to our mindset.

We couldn't resist the allure of Tawaraya's reputation and the way it makes one feel almost smug for having scored a reservation. But in reality, my gut is that the legend is greater than the actuality and that a ryokan experience can be had for a much less lofty price with the same result. There is a lot of talk about its age - 300 years. Sometimes old is...well, old. That showed in the condition of the room, which really needed some TLC on fittings, paint finish, etc. As well, the chatter about the luminaries who have stayed in a place always makes me suspicious that current guests are after thoughts. Marlon Brando probably enjoyed his stay more than we did.

There are a lot of rituals involved in a ryokan stay and I don't think the ryokan did a good job explaining any of them - use of the (very old) wooden bath, how to wear a yukata, the dinner/breakfast drill. At a minimum I would have appreciated something in writing to more fully appreciate the offerings and customs. In my case, I knew a lot of this, but that wouldn't be true for everyone.

I know the point is to zen out. The minimal (spartan) furnishing and lovely
garden should have pointed us in that direction. However, if I am physically uncomfortable, I am not going to achieve that. There was one small chair that my SO and I took turns using. Otherwise, it was sitting on a low chair with feet in a pit or against a wall. They had internet, which we didn't use (trying to zen out and all that....) and a TV behind a drawer on the floor which we also didn't try, owing to a tough viewing angle. The futon, however, was much more comfortable than expected and we slept well, other than some noise from our
neighbor (thin walls.)

The location of Tawaraya couldn't be better, right in the heart of Kyoto on a quiet street. We enjoyed eating meals in our robes - the kaiseki was fine, not amazing, and the breakfast was very nice.

I would urge anyone NOT to stay in a ryokan if they are jet-lagged. This isn't a room with a nespresso machine and much to entertain one in the middle of the night.

On our departure day, we decided to go for an early walk. All they seemed to care about was when we were leaving. We said 11 AM but, when we returned at 10 AM, our bags were packed in the lobby and they were ready to send us on our way. I'm sure this was a communication gaffe, but it felt really inhospitable.

So I encourage people with an interest in Japan to give the ryokan a try, but, for many of us, our expectations have to be managed.

Aventine

What about a modern luxury ryokan with Western style beds and luxury fittings? Aman in Mie might tick your boxes for the future?

I would suggest you try Kayotei in Ishikawa-ken, if you ever want to try a ryokan again. That was one of the top stays in my life.

Mickidon

Our goal was to do the whole nine yards. Next time, your suggestion about might be the way to go.

abmj-jr

I have always thought the two most over-rated features of "the perfect trip to Japan" are the obligatory visit to a wet, hectic, crowded fish market (Tsukiji) at 4:00 AM and a night or two sleeping on the floor in a traditional ryokan. I recommend neither.

jib71

Notwithstanding my sincere admiration for abmj, I completely disagree.

op487062

I concur ^

shuigao

As a self-proclaimed foodie I totally enjoyed browsing the inner market. Wife and I spent close to two hours just walking around gawking at all the huge kuruma-ebi, chunks of tuna, etc.

But ... waking up at 3am to take a taxi to queue for the tuna auction, that is the most overrated thing ever. I'd recommend to just skip that and watch a youtube video

evergrn

There's a wide gamut of ryokans in Jpn and, even amongst expensive ryokans, you'll find varying quality, modernity and value. First of all, my ryokan stays are almost exclusively at places with natural hot springs. Onsen goes hand in hand with the whole yukata, kaiseki, futon experience. I wouldn't really care for the ryokan experience if it didn't have natural onsen. Another thing is, there are newer modern ryokans that place a premium on cleanliness, chic design and modern comfort (kind of like what Aventine was alluding to), and then there're what you'd call "shinise ryokans," places with history and tradition. However, many shinise ryokans have redone themselves and stayed fresh and modern, whereas other shinise ryokans have stayed old and stuck in the past (albeit still fairly well-maintained). There're some ryokans that have not renovated in >30yrs. I've not stayed at Tawaraya, but sounds like it fits into that latter category. Some people actually like that. I don't. My favorite ryokans are onsen places with clean, modern feel. There're many places like that all over.

Service/hospitality at ryokan can be a funny thing. I've stayed at places where they pamper you from check-in to breakfast. But as you get close to check-out time, all that goes out the door at some places. Cleaning ladies start working right outside your door, blocking hallway with stuff and making no bones about it as you weave your way through. One time I also had a bitter experience where I asked if we could stay no more than 30min past check-out and the staff graciously said 'take your time.' We ended up checking out a mere 10~15min past check-out and they'd still snuck in a 3000yen charge for late check-out. I raised issues with that, and the lady simply gave a one-sentence explanation matter-of-factly with polite and innocent keigo. To be honest, I got really p/o'd because she's politely blowing it off as nothing yet she's not going to reverse it. But in that setting, you'd look like an a** if you make a scene. So I just put up with it. As strict as Japanese hotels are about late check-out, no hotel chains in Jpn would charge you late fee for checking out 10-15min late. So with ryokans, it's kind of a hit and miss, good and bad, even within the same stay. Of course, I've had plenty of stays where it was excellent from start to finish.

Aventine

evergrn puts it very well. Your mileage will vary in ryokans.

mkjr

i got shot down in another thread for stating the same.... but i agree with you.

B7EIGHT7

I studied whilst in Japan from ~ 1990 to mid 1993.

Visited there back in January 2014 for 2 weeks - and OOOMMMGG...it changed aloot.

Stayed at http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...ure_Kanto.html and it was about 25 mins from Tokyo station via the JR Yamanote line...near yokohama/shinagawa.

How I'd do anything to go back there........

Aventine

I'll watch the Youtube video while eating some toro from there ^ That's the ticket!

AlwaysAisle

I do think OP’s experience is nothing unordinary experience at Ryokans in Japan. What considered luxury, relaxing, highly valued, etc. by Japanese standard do not necessary translate same to the standard by Europe or the U.S. But same time hope OP will not make an assumption that rest of entire ryokans in Japan are same as one experience OP had.

Once I read why Michelin Guide is popular reference among Europeans and Americans visiting Tokyo. Beside the reputation of Michelin Star system, Michelin Guide is judged by people who work for Michelin in Europe. Judges of Michelin Guide have standard of Europe when it comes to taste of food, service attitude, etc. So restaurants ranked by Michelin Guide have taste and service mind which are suitable for Europeans and Americans.

This article went on saying Europeans and Americans may not find restaurant reviews by local Japanese useful because the reviews are judged by different taste buds and different service concepts.

Just comment about Tsukiji Fish Market tuna auction. Until mid ‘80s no tourists hardly ever visited tuna auction at Tsukiji Fish Market. Tuna auction was not really considered as something visitors will come and see, and still many Japanese thinks it is odd thing Gaijin tourists (non-Japanese tourist) do.

It all started due to tourists from Europe and the U.S. on jetlag. Those on jetlag are wide wake at 2 a.m./3 a.m. in Japan and cannot go sleep. Somewhere came out about visiting tuna auction at Tsukiji Fish Market, pretty much only thing open at Tokyo that time of the day except for 24 hrs. Denny’s. Internet helped spread this around.

But even today many Japanese think it is weird thing Gaijin tourists (non-Japanese tourist) do going to tuna auction that early in the morning. Even today majority of visitors at tuna auction are non-Japanese. Sure there are some Japanese visitors at tuna auction, but they think because Gaijin are doing it so must be cool!

ksandness

I heard people talking about it in the 1970s, but it was considered a really offbeat thing to do, not something that was generally known among tourists.

Personally, I was underwhelmed.

As far as ryokan are concerned, I stayed in a lot of them when I was younger, but my arthritic knees make sleeping on the floor an awkward proposition. (I can sleep just fine; it's getting out of bed and standing up that's the problem.)

If I'm going to stay in traditional Japanese surroundings, I much prefer minshuku (private homes that rent rooms and provide breakfast and dinner--the Western-style ones are called penshon), which are the only affordable options in some remote areas (e.g. Tsumago or Tsuwano). I speak Japanese, so I always enjoy talking to the owners and finding out things that only locals know.

Otherwise, in the cities, including Kyoto, I prefer a business hotel.

Ichinensei

Everyone is different and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I always stay at a ryokan and I always love it. The one i stay at is across from the National Museum and is only 8000yen a night with breakfast and kaiseki dinner. I also always stay in a minshuku in Takayama that serves Hida beef and hoba miso. Some people will fly all the way to Japan and go to a McDonalds and that's all they will eat. Whatever makes them happy. And yes, I will go to Tsukiji. And also onsen, and other very Japanese things - which some people may also say it is overrated.