Hello all,

Would appreciate any insight into practicality of following itinerary (figuring out if we have enough time to include Kyoto in our mid-December trip) Here are details-

Day 1 (Monday) - get in at 9:05 am into KIX
Go to Kyoto by train (JR Haruka?), check into a hotel (undecided, probably use SPG points)

Day 2, Tuesday - Take a tour of Sanjusangen-do Hall, Heian Shrine and Kiyomizu-dera. Will tours operate even if it snows?
Can we do this in the morning and then take a bullet train to Tokyo in the evening? Or should we take a flight to HND and then check into hotel in Tokyo?

Day 3 � Tour Tokyo
Day 4 � Tour Tokyo
Day 5 � Shop in morning, CX Flight from Narita at 6:05 pm

We are 4 adults and will have a large-ish bag each, but definitely want to ride the bullet train, and hopefully go on a Mt Fuji tour (not climb).

Will book hotel after deciding itinerary, but leaning toward Conrad.
Thanks.

Seems quite doable. A couple of notes. It's unlikely to snow in mid-December as compared to January or February. You might consider sending your main suitcases straight to the Tokyo hotel and just keep enough for the day and a half in Kyoto. You could use the takkyubin service at KIX. That way you don't have to worry about carrying the suitcases around and dealing with them on the trains.

Given your timeframe/constraint and objectives (both Kyoto & Tokyo), I think your itinerary is good. I would recommend you stay at/near Kyoto Station (eg, Grandvia) so that you can get off the train in AM and dump your bags w/ front desk, then the next day leave the bags again w/ front desk until you pick them up on your way to the bullet train platform. And you could consider shipping one or two of your bags to Tokyo, if you want, as nishimark said. With your itinerary, you won't be able to cover anything close to all of Tokyo (or, to less extent, even Kyoto for that matter). But you'll still have a good trip if you focus on certain areas/things. Don't bother flying... just take the bullet train.

Thanks folks! Flyertalk consistently replaces bit of uncertainty on vacations with excitement. Thanks again.

A couple of thoughts on Kyoto from me - I really enjoyed it, probably more so than Tokyo (although I did enjoy there too). There was more of a sense of history in Kyoto for me.

Given you get in to KIX in the morning, provided you can caffeinate yourself, you could use that time to see a few more things. There are a couple of things I really enjoyed in Kyoto - Kinkaku-ji was probably the prettiest place I went to - really lovely setting, although you can't go inside. I would imagine it would be stunning with snow on the ground. I found the Imperial Palace tour (you have to book this in advance, limited number of places each day) fascinating, really gave me a sense of how the place used to be. You could probably do a couple of the other things on your list that day as well if you want to make the most of your time. Be aware that several things shut quite early - 4, 4:30 pm seemed the norm for several places.

Slightly further afield, Nara was probably my favourite place I visited in Japan (it's a tough call, as everywhere was pretty amazing!) The Tōdai-ji is wonderful - you just can't understand the size from pictures. It's in a lovely park, with cute but cheeky deer everywhere! Kofuku-ji has a very impressive pagoda. It's an easy trip by train from Kyoto, and on the way back stopped at Fushimi Inari-taisha which I thought was very pretty, although I didn't stay there terribly long (walked one of the shorter routes and took a few photos then hopped back on the train)

I think you can absolutely spend a full day in Kyoto / Nara and then take the train in the evening, it is only about 2.5 hours to Tokyo. Hyperdia.com will give you train times so you can plan. Much easier than flying too!

Definitely want to include Kinkaku-ji, just forgot to type it, and most likely we should be good to go both days.

The images online of the Todai-ji are beautiful - the family is going to have a tough time deciding what to include.

A few suggestions:
1) As emma mentioned, it gets dark early in December- this can factor in a few different ways, but definitely maximize your touring time in Kyoto with an early start, if possible.

2) One great part of the bullet train ride is the scenery between Kyoto and Tokyo. If you do it at night, you miss out on that, and potentially cool views of Mt. Fuji (sit on the left side). Which brings me to...

3) With such a limited schedule, I'd think twice about taking a trip to see Fuji. You can google "fuji 5th station" to see what it looks like, but its basically a tourist trap with good views on a clear day. On a foggy day it is just a tourist trap (alas, I was unlucky). If the trip to Fuji is combined with seeing the lakes, etc, then it might be worth it. YMMV.

4) If you decide not to do Fuji, you have many other options- more time in Kyoto or Tokyo, a day trip to Nara (totally worth it), Nikko, or Kamakura, or maybe a stop at Hikone castle (Himeji is still undergoing renovation on the inside).

You are more likely to see Fuji in the winter than in the summer, but with limited time, I wouldn't bother actually going to it.

If you can't see it from the left side of the train, you may be able to see it from tall buildings in Tokyo.

Thanks folks. Am tweaking my itinerary slightly accordingly.

Enjoyed what we saw of polite, clean and beautiful Japan.

Wanted to point out some of the good advice that we got off FT in the hope that it could help others -

- Loved the convenience of staying overnight at a hotel at KIX airport - got off flight, sent extra bags over to hotel in Tokyo using Takkyubin in airport, took our carry on bags and walked over to hotel via covered walkway, free Wifi at hotel, got over jet lag, walked to trains to Kyoto next morning. Worked out well for our needs. (Very minor issue was our flight landed in around 9 am and hotel check-in was around 2 or 3 pm, but by the time we were done with currency changing, picking up a SIM card, eating at a fast food place, etc. etc., not too much of a wait before we could check in)

- Could not see Mt. Fuji on the Shinkansen because it was already dark, but was able to see it on one of the tours in Tokyo from afar

- Flew FRA-KIX on LH, (part of a J United award) - what nice crew and service, very pleasant. ^