Another First-Timer with Miscellaneous Questions
#1
Original Poster




Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,777
Another First-Timer with Miscellaneous Questions
Hello all - very much excited about a first trip to Japan coming up in a couple weeks. Unfortunately, due to a general hectic schedule I've not done as much planning as I'd like. And frankly, the information available is overwhelming. That said, I'm not the kind of traveler who likes a rigorous, fully-planned schedule; I like it to feel like vacation after all.
As I greatly value the opinion of FTers more than just about any other groups, I'd be honored by any inputs you could provide on this assortment of newbie questions...
Traveling with SO, itinerary is as follows:
Feb 26: arrive 21:05 into HND (CX F). Plan to somehow obtain a Suica and then take paid rail to Shinjuku. Staying at PH.
Feb 26-Mar 1: stay at PH. Do Tokyo things.
Mar 2: check out of PH, first day of JR 7-day pass (green car), ride to Osaka.
Mar 2-Mar 5: Hilton Osaka.
Mar 6: check out of Hilton Osaka, ride to Yokosuka, meet with friends.
Mar 6-7: Yokosuka, staying with friends, probably just doing whatever they want to show us.
Mar 8: Leave Yokosuka, last day of JR pass, make it to Hilton NRT before end of night.
Mar 9: Depart NRT 11:10 AM (JL F to JFK).
Questions:
1) Most open-ended of them, I promise they won't all be this ridiculous...OK, so seriously, what do I absolutely have to do in Tokyo? Like I said we're not really super-strict planning people, generally when we're in big international cities we just like to get lost and take it all in...to us some of the most interesting things are simple everyday things like checking out grocery stores, etc. We explore on foot or rail and are fine with 10-15 miles a day of walking every day. We're not really huge museum/attraction/etc. folks but would obviously do something world class or unique. I'm sure we'll find plenty to keep ourselves entertained, it goes without saying! But when handful of things are just absolutely not to be missed?
2) Restaurants - What is a good source for restaurant info? City-specific or the whole country. Unfortunately I cannot read Japanese. Are hotel concierges generally pretty good, or will they try to cater to what they think we will like and lead us to conservative choices? In general, any pointers on finding good dining establishments? My usual rule is "look for places with lots of old men"; does that apply here? And any can't-miss suggestions? $500 dinners we have been and done and they're generally lost on us. We like flavor for our buck. I think we're going to be more izakaya types.
3) Tokyo day trips - with only 3 full days in Tokyo, and JR passes not yet activated, do you feel it worth it to take any distant day trips? My current feeling is no.
4) Osaka - we chose to stay here because we believed the folks that said it was better to stay there and take day trips than to stay in say Kyoto. We're also Hilton loyalists. Figure on one full day in Osaka, one full day Kyoto, and then a full day trip somehow combining Arima onsen, Mt. Rokko area, and maybe dinner in Kobe to the extent that that is possible. Does this seem reasonable?
5) Aforementioned trip to Arima onsen - where is the best actual onsen to visit for a couple hours as part of that day trip? And how best to tie in Mt. Rokko? Was planning on taking the cable car right up from Arima (but I read that may be closed?) and then somehow working our way down to Kobe...any suggestions on how to best do this would be appreciated.
6) 1/2 day trip for last day in Osaka - check out in Osaka morning of Mar 6 but don't need to be in Yokosuka until sometime that night...how best to fill that day?
7) Train seat reservations - do these need to be done in person? By phone with hotel concierge? At all (except for NEX which requires)? Opinions seem to vary.
8) Trains in general - seems that there are often many ways to do the same thing. Looks like Hyperdia is the best route planner. Not having cell service or wifi everywhere though, in the stations are route maps generally available? Is it easy to tell JR trains from other trains? Also, it seems there has been some integration of Suica across the country, but I can't seem to find out how far along it is...is it possible to use Suica on most non-JR rail lines I might run into in the general Kyoto/Osaka/Kobe region?
9) Yokosuka - Is there anything I need to know as an American visiting this area? I understand that there may be friction due to the US presence. I certainly want to convey as great a sentiment of respect as possible.
I apologize in advance if these are vague or have been previously answered repeatedly. But I would be grateful for any input or discussion that would come of this. My experience in traveling is that I can read books and guides for weeks but it is not worth as much as 5 minutes of advice from someone who has been there and done it. And maybe there is something here that might be of use to someone traveling after me.
Many, many thanks!
As I greatly value the opinion of FTers more than just about any other groups, I'd be honored by any inputs you could provide on this assortment of newbie questions...
Traveling with SO, itinerary is as follows:
Feb 26: arrive 21:05 into HND (CX F). Plan to somehow obtain a Suica and then take paid rail to Shinjuku. Staying at PH.
Feb 26-Mar 1: stay at PH. Do Tokyo things.
Mar 2: check out of PH, first day of JR 7-day pass (green car), ride to Osaka.
Mar 2-Mar 5: Hilton Osaka.
Mar 6: check out of Hilton Osaka, ride to Yokosuka, meet with friends.
Mar 6-7: Yokosuka, staying with friends, probably just doing whatever they want to show us.
Mar 8: Leave Yokosuka, last day of JR pass, make it to Hilton NRT before end of night.
Mar 9: Depart NRT 11:10 AM (JL F to JFK).
Questions:
1) Most open-ended of them, I promise they won't all be this ridiculous...OK, so seriously, what do I absolutely have to do in Tokyo? Like I said we're not really super-strict planning people, generally when we're in big international cities we just like to get lost and take it all in...to us some of the most interesting things are simple everyday things like checking out grocery stores, etc. We explore on foot or rail and are fine with 10-15 miles a day of walking every day. We're not really huge museum/attraction/etc. folks but would obviously do something world class or unique. I'm sure we'll find plenty to keep ourselves entertained, it goes without saying! But when handful of things are just absolutely not to be missed?
2) Restaurants - What is a good source for restaurant info? City-specific or the whole country. Unfortunately I cannot read Japanese. Are hotel concierges generally pretty good, or will they try to cater to what they think we will like and lead us to conservative choices? In general, any pointers on finding good dining establishments? My usual rule is "look for places with lots of old men"; does that apply here? And any can't-miss suggestions? $500 dinners we have been and done and they're generally lost on us. We like flavor for our buck. I think we're going to be more izakaya types.
3) Tokyo day trips - with only 3 full days in Tokyo, and JR passes not yet activated, do you feel it worth it to take any distant day trips? My current feeling is no.
4) Osaka - we chose to stay here because we believed the folks that said it was better to stay there and take day trips than to stay in say Kyoto. We're also Hilton loyalists. Figure on one full day in Osaka, one full day Kyoto, and then a full day trip somehow combining Arima onsen, Mt. Rokko area, and maybe dinner in Kobe to the extent that that is possible. Does this seem reasonable?
5) Aforementioned trip to Arima onsen - where is the best actual onsen to visit for a couple hours as part of that day trip? And how best to tie in Mt. Rokko? Was planning on taking the cable car right up from Arima (but I read that may be closed?) and then somehow working our way down to Kobe...any suggestions on how to best do this would be appreciated.
6) 1/2 day trip for last day in Osaka - check out in Osaka morning of Mar 6 but don't need to be in Yokosuka until sometime that night...how best to fill that day?
7) Train seat reservations - do these need to be done in person? By phone with hotel concierge? At all (except for NEX which requires)? Opinions seem to vary.
8) Trains in general - seems that there are often many ways to do the same thing. Looks like Hyperdia is the best route planner. Not having cell service or wifi everywhere though, in the stations are route maps generally available? Is it easy to tell JR trains from other trains? Also, it seems there has been some integration of Suica across the country, but I can't seem to find out how far along it is...is it possible to use Suica on most non-JR rail lines I might run into in the general Kyoto/Osaka/Kobe region?
9) Yokosuka - Is there anything I need to know as an American visiting this area? I understand that there may be friction due to the US presence. I certainly want to convey as great a sentiment of respect as possible.
I apologize in advance if these are vague or have been previously answered repeatedly. But I would be grateful for any input or discussion that would come of this. My experience in traveling is that I can read books and guides for weeks but it is not worth as much as 5 minutes of advice from someone who has been there and done it. And maybe there is something here that might be of use to someone traveling after me.
Many, many thanks!
Last edited by arlflyer; Feb 9, 2014 at 1:15 pm
#2
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#3
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Don't worry about finding the right trains/platforms. All of the major and most minor stations are very well signed in English. Plus, you can just show your ticket to the entrance gate attendant and they can tell you where to go.
If you know in advance what trains you want, you can make seat reservations for your entire trip, or any smaller segment, at the Japan Rail Service Center at any station. If I know what I am going to need, I like to drop in there upon ARRIVAL at a new location, before heading to my hotel, to obtain tickets and seats for my next rail segments - even days in advance. That way I have them and don't need to worry about sell-outs or last minute bad seat options. Many others here prefer to just wing it and get tickets just before boarding. YMMV.
I recommend having your preferred trains written or printed out ahead so you can just show the JR agent when you reserve your seats. They often can understand your needs seeing it written out in English better than trying to understand your spoken English. Hyperdia is great for this.
I have never used a concierge for train tickets or anything else so can't make a recommendation there.
If you know in advance what trains you want, you can make seat reservations for your entire trip, or any smaller segment, at the Japan Rail Service Center at any station. If I know what I am going to need, I like to drop in there upon ARRIVAL at a new location, before heading to my hotel, to obtain tickets and seats for my next rail segments - even days in advance. That way I have them and don't need to worry about sell-outs or last minute bad seat options. Many others here prefer to just wing it and get tickets just before boarding. YMMV.
I recommend having your preferred trains written or printed out ahead so you can just show the JR agent when you reserve your seats. They often can understand your needs seeing it written out in English better than trying to understand your spoken English. Hyperdia is great for this.
I have never used a concierge for train tickets or anything else so can't make a recommendation there.
#4
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Central California
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Posts: 6,531
On the other hand, if you want to stay with Hilton, you don't really have much choice, unfortunately.
#5
Original Poster




Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,777
Hah! It certainly does seem to be a divided camp. And, having just come from Tokyo, I can definitely see how it would make sense to diversify things a bit and maybe stay someplace quieter instead of another big city. But we just weren't sure about the Ryokan scene, if we would enjoy that experience or not, and Osaka seemed to be more centrally located for day trips. So we decided to play it safe in that regard.
And thank you for your advice on trains...making reservations on arrival makes a LOT of sense. For the big legs I can do some Hyperdia printouts before I even leave the US.
And thank you for your advice on trains...making reservations on arrival makes a LOT of sense. For the big legs I can do some Hyperdia printouts before I even leave the US.
#6



Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WAS
Posts: 892
1) Just do the research yourself. This question has been answered here at least once a month for years. Search the board, check out the travel wikis, look at guidebooks. If you have specific questions around certain interests, we can be of better help. Sorry if I'm being harsh, but this is probably the easiest question about visiting Japan that you can find 100+ answers to.
3) Traditional day trips are Yokohama, Nikko and Kamakura, and at least overnight in Hakone. Research them and see if any of them make sense for your itin and interests.
4) I and many others disagree with those folks, (I always say consider dropping Osaka) but you can do it. Unless you have a good reason to avoid it, I would recommend at least 1-2 nights in a traditional ryokan. Kyoto is the easiest place to do it, with ryokans in every price range. I splurged for one night in Hiiragiya (regarded as either the top or in the top 2 luxury ryokans) at the time the yen was the strongest against the dollar and didn't regret it for a second.
6) Probably not enough time for Hakone, but Kamakura is close to the base.
7) On my trips, I tend to make reservations at the train station since I usually don't know which train I'll be on till I get to the station. The main Tokkaido bullet train line has trains coming so often, you only need to worry if it is rush hour times, and even then not so much. When travelling to/from Tokyo during the day, try to get a seat on the North side of the train (right side Tokyo -> Osaka, left side on the reverse) since you can get great views of Mt. Fuji.
8) Between the hotel and info desks at train stations, you shouldn't have a problem. Signage, especially in the big cites, is great. My one caveat is that everyone should know that Tokyo Station has 2 sides, and if you aren't seeing signs towards what you are looking for, head towards the other side.
9) I can't speak for Yokosuka specifically, but I doubt you'll run into more negativity there. In general, if you don't understand the subtleties of Japanese behavior, you'll never get the sense that you've insulted them (even if you have). But if you are worried about inadvertently being insensitive, study up on cultural faux pas a little bit and don't be a "loud American." As long as you don't look Asian (where your appearance might give the impression that you should know what you are doing) and are obviously a tourist you will get a pretty big cultural "pass" in general. Of course, your mileage may vary, especially around drunk people. But it isn't something to worry about short of treating people well and realizing that oftentimes hesitation means "no" and suggestions can mean a stronger opinion hidden in niceties.
3) Traditional day trips are Yokohama, Nikko and Kamakura, and at least overnight in Hakone. Research them and see if any of them make sense for your itin and interests.
4) I and many others disagree with those folks, (I always say consider dropping Osaka) but you can do it. Unless you have a good reason to avoid it, I would recommend at least 1-2 nights in a traditional ryokan. Kyoto is the easiest place to do it, with ryokans in every price range. I splurged for one night in Hiiragiya (regarded as either the top or in the top 2 luxury ryokans) at the time the yen was the strongest against the dollar and didn't regret it for a second.
6) Probably not enough time for Hakone, but Kamakura is close to the base.
7) On my trips, I tend to make reservations at the train station since I usually don't know which train I'll be on till I get to the station. The main Tokkaido bullet train line has trains coming so often, you only need to worry if it is rush hour times, and even then not so much. When travelling to/from Tokyo during the day, try to get a seat on the North side of the train (right side Tokyo -> Osaka, left side on the reverse) since you can get great views of Mt. Fuji.
8) Between the hotel and info desks at train stations, you shouldn't have a problem. Signage, especially in the big cites, is great. My one caveat is that everyone should know that Tokyo Station has 2 sides, and if you aren't seeing signs towards what you are looking for, head towards the other side.
9) I can't speak for Yokosuka specifically, but I doubt you'll run into more negativity there. In general, if you don't understand the subtleties of Japanese behavior, you'll never get the sense that you've insulted them (even if you have). But if you are worried about inadvertently being insensitive, study up on cultural faux pas a little bit and don't be a "loud American." As long as you don't look Asian (where your appearance might give the impression that you should know what you are doing) and are obviously a tourist you will get a pretty big cultural "pass" in general. Of course, your mileage may vary, especially around drunk people. But it isn't something to worry about short of treating people well and realizing that oftentimes hesitation means "no" and suggestions can mean a stronger opinion hidden in niceties.
#7
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Central California
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Posts: 6,531
Among the better day trips from Kyoto are Nara, Hikone and Osaka, all of which require zero connections from Kyoto Station. Osaka is nice but rather a repeat of the big city that is Tokyo. If you are into the nightlife and dining scene, Osaka is probably a fine choice. I like quiet, history, great food and culture so I always stay in Kyoto or Nara.
#8
Original Poster




Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DCA
Posts: 7,777
1) Just do the research yourself. This question has been answered here at least once a month for years. Search the board, check out the travel wikis, look at guidebooks. If you have specific questions around certain interests, we can be of better help. Sorry if I'm being harsh, but this is probably the easiest question about visiting Japan that you can find 100+ answers to.
I hope you don't think you must stay in ryokans when in Kyoto. There are many, many fine western-style hotels. I, for one, simply do not do ryokans anymore but have enjoyed many nights in Kyoto. The advantages are being much closer to the historical and cultural sites, the ability to walk to and from the hotel or return for a change of clothing or a nap and, truth be told, the more central location for day trips(!)
Among the better day trips from Kyoto are Nara, Hikone and Osaka, all of which require zero connections from Kyoto Station. Osaka is nice but rather a repeat of the big city that is Tokyo. If you are into the nightlife and dining scene, Osaka is probably a fine choice. I like quiet, history, great food and culture so I always stay in Kyoto or Nara.
Among the better day trips from Kyoto are Nara, Hikone and Osaka, all of which require zero connections from Kyoto Station. Osaka is nice but rather a repeat of the big city that is Tokyo. If you are into the nightlife and dining scene, Osaka is probably a fine choice. I like quiet, history, great food and culture so I always stay in Kyoto or Nara.
Seems we've sold the Kyoto crowd short, but that only means one thing...we'll just have to plan another trip sometime!
#9




Join Date: Sep 2003
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Since nobody seems to have pointed this out, I have to warn you that Kyoto is very much "another big city" (pop 1.5m), and for most part a famously ugly one as well, although there are scattered oases of calm. Nara, on the other hand, is positively bucolic in comparison to either.
#10
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Since nobody seems to have pointed this out, I have to warn you that Kyoto is very much "another big city" (pop 1.5m), and for most part a famously ugly one as well, although there are scattered oases of calm. Nara, on the other hand, is positively bucolic in comparison to either.
#11




Join Date: Feb 2013
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I don't think it should be out of question for one to stay in Osaka when visiting Kyoto. It really depends. If Kyoto is a big highlight and you want to spend a few full days exploring Kyoto, then you should stay in Kyoto. But if you're like me and hate changing hotels, and if you've got other day trip plans in the Kansai area on top of Kyoto, then Osaka is a worthwhile option. Especially considering that Umeda area has a lot of nice hotel options at generally much better value than Kyoto, and considering there's a direct train service from Umeda to the heart of Kyoto's attractions (Kawaramachi). I've visited Kyoto ~5x now, but the last few times I've stayed in Kobe or Osaka.
Arima/Rokko:
I love Kobe and the whole Rokko area. Rokko can be explored in a number of different ways. You can take a bus to Rokko Cable Car, then ride the cable car up to the top, then either walk or take another bus to the Rokko Terrace (restaurant/observation deck at top of Rokko) and ride the Arima Ropeway down to Arima Onsen, and then take the train back to Kobe from there. There's a bus that runs along the top of the mountains that connect different spots up there like the Terrace, farm, Rokko Hotel and the top of the cable car. It is a bit cumbersome to get to the top of Rokko, and you could simplify things by taking a bus tour that goes straight up to the top from Kobe. You can incorporate some hiking in a number of different ways. There are three funiculars/ropeway type things that go up the Rokko hills from the Kobe side... only one of them is accessible easily by train, and that's the one that goes up from Shin Kobe station to Herb Garden. Although that one is the lowest out of the three and the summit station is nowhere near the top of Rokko, it's still a fantastic ride with great views and a nice garden to walk through at the top. It's a good option if you don't have much time in Kobe. I've taken the train to Arima Onsen, then ropeway up the back of the mountain to Rokko Terrace , then hiked back down to Arima Onsen. We've done a tour of pastry shops in Okamoto on way to Ashiyagawa on Hankyu train, then got off there and hiked up through the Rock Garden with the intention of getting up to Rokko Terrace... at least that was our plan, but we ended up turning back for a number of different reasons. At Arima Onsen, I'm sure there's a place or two that's specifically a day-use onsen. I just don't know off the top of my head. The place that I know for sure offers a higaeri plan (day-use without staying at a hotel) is Arima Grand Hotel, which is quite nice.
Arima/Rokko:
I love Kobe and the whole Rokko area. Rokko can be explored in a number of different ways. You can take a bus to Rokko Cable Car, then ride the cable car up to the top, then either walk or take another bus to the Rokko Terrace (restaurant/observation deck at top of Rokko) and ride the Arima Ropeway down to Arima Onsen, and then take the train back to Kobe from there. There's a bus that runs along the top of the mountains that connect different spots up there like the Terrace, farm, Rokko Hotel and the top of the cable car. It is a bit cumbersome to get to the top of Rokko, and you could simplify things by taking a bus tour that goes straight up to the top from Kobe. You can incorporate some hiking in a number of different ways. There are three funiculars/ropeway type things that go up the Rokko hills from the Kobe side... only one of them is accessible easily by train, and that's the one that goes up from Shin Kobe station to Herb Garden. Although that one is the lowest out of the three and the summit station is nowhere near the top of Rokko, it's still a fantastic ride with great views and a nice garden to walk through at the top. It's a good option if you don't have much time in Kobe. I've taken the train to Arima Onsen, then ropeway up the back of the mountain to Rokko Terrace , then hiked back down to Arima Onsen. We've done a tour of pastry shops in Okamoto on way to Ashiyagawa on Hankyu train, then got off there and hiked up through the Rock Garden with the intention of getting up to Rokko Terrace... at least that was our plan, but we ended up turning back for a number of different reasons. At Arima Onsen, I'm sure there's a place or two that's specifically a day-use onsen. I just don't know off the top of my head. The place that I know for sure offers a higaeri plan (day-use without staying at a hotel) is Arima Grand Hotel, which is quite nice.
Last edited by evergrn; Feb 10, 2014 at 7:27 pm Reason: corrected spelling
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Arima/Rokko:
I love Kobe and the whole Rokko area. Rokko can be explored in a number of different ways. You can take a bus to Rokko Cable Car, then ride the cable car up to the top, then either walk or take another bus to the Rokko Terrace (restaurant/observation deck at top of Rokko) and ride the Arima Ropeway down to Arima Onsen, and then take the train back to Kobe from there.
I love Kobe and the whole Rokko area. Rokko can be explored in a number of different ways. You can take a bus to Rokko Cable Car, then ride the cable car up to the top, then either walk or take another bus to the Rokko Terrace (restaurant/observation deck at top of Rokko) and ride the Arima Ropeway down to Arima Onsen, and then take the train back to Kobe from there.
Looks like there are a couple day onsen I have found on the web - Tenzan No Yu and Taiko No Yu, if anyone has any thoughts/experience with either of those. They seem to be held in good regard in some discussions I have seen.
#13



Join Date: Sep 2005
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Posts: 892
Since nobody seems to have pointed this out, I have to warn you that Kyoto is very much "another big city" (pop 1.5m), and for most part a famously ugly one as well, although there are scattered oases of calm. Nara, on the other hand, is positively bucolic in comparison to either.
#14
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#15
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota,USA
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Restaurants: As I have told other inquirers, Japan probably has more restaurants per square mile than any place on earth, and most of them are mom-and-pop establishments. Most of them have either plastic models of the food in the display window or a picture menu posted outside, either one with prices. Since there is no tipping and the tax is folded into the stated price, you know in advance exactly how much you will have to pay.
Department store restaurant floors (every department store I've ever seen in 35 years has one) feature a lot of reasonably priced meals (under US$20), mostly in restaurants that specialize in one type of dish (e.g. kamameshi--a risotto-like dish with different possibilities for ingredients, mostly seafood, or okonomiyaki, which is too floury to be an omelet and too eggy to be a crepe, and is filled with your choice of ingredients and cooked on a grill in front of you) or one ethnic cuisine (there's always an Italian restaurant).
In my experience, izakaya do not have this tourist-friendly feature, only handwritten menus on the wall, and serve side dishes and snacks rather than meals. I suppose you could use the "I'll have what they're having" approach and make a complete meal of side dishes, especially since they include things like yakitori, tofu with bonito flakes, spinach with sesame seeds, and various kinds of seafood. However, the dish that looks like baked beans is actually natto, or fermented--I think that's a euphemism--soybeans that people either love or hate.
So rather than eat at places recommended in guidebooks, I just explore the neighborhood I'm in and settle on what looks appealing.
Department store restaurant floors (every department store I've ever seen in 35 years has one) feature a lot of reasonably priced meals (under US$20), mostly in restaurants that specialize in one type of dish (e.g. kamameshi--a risotto-like dish with different possibilities for ingredients, mostly seafood, or okonomiyaki, which is too floury to be an omelet and too eggy to be a crepe, and is filled with your choice of ingredients and cooked on a grill in front of you) or one ethnic cuisine (there's always an Italian restaurant).
In my experience, izakaya do not have this tourist-friendly feature, only handwritten menus on the wall, and serve side dishes and snacks rather than meals. I suppose you could use the "I'll have what they're having" approach and make a complete meal of side dishes, especially since they include things like yakitori, tofu with bonito flakes, spinach with sesame seeds, and various kinds of seafood. However, the dish that looks like baked beans is actually natto, or fermented--I think that's a euphemism--soybeans that people either love or hate.
So rather than eat at places recommended in guidebooks, I just explore the neighborhood I'm in and settle on what looks appealing.

