Rimshotsnap

Hi All,

I'm finalize the details for my 10-day trip to Japan and needed some guidance to make one last decision. I am would like to visit Hakone for a day from Tokyo and continue on to Kyoto. What would be the best way to do this?

Currently, I've reserved a seat on the "Romance Car" to Hakone, leaving Tokyo at 9am and arriving at 10:30. I guess I really have two questions:
Should I stay overnight in Hakone to give myself more time to explore?
What is the best route from Hakone->Kyoto? I will have the JR Pass. Is it easiest to go back t

I greatly appreciate any help!!

AlwaysAisle

Yes, if your schedule and budget allow then I do recommend spending a night at Hakone. Although many people do make a day trip to Hakone from Tokyo, spending a night at Hakone will give you time to explore more of Hakone on more leisure pace. Also you will have an opportunity to experience Onsen Ryokan (Japanese hot spring inn).

As for getting to Kyoto from Hakone, most popular way will be get back to Odawara from Hakone and catch Shinkansen (Bullet Train) from Odawara to Kyoto. If you happen to be at Hakone-machi, south shore of Ashino-ko (Lake Ashino) then there is an option of taking a bus directly to Mishima then catch Shinkansen from Mishima to Kyoto.

Nozomi does not stop at Odawara but you cannot ride on Nozomi using JR Pass anyway, there are about three Shinkansen trains each hour at Odawara, two Kodama (stops at every station) and one Hikari (skip few stations).

RichardInSF

Good suggestion. If you take the Kodama from Odawara, you can switch to the next Hikari if you want at Nagoya (sometimes Misihima works). You can even take the Kodama back to Shin-Yokohama to catch a Hikari -- it only takes 16 minutes!

For Hakone, make sure you have bought the Odakyu "free pass" ticket (which is not free). Even for a day trip it is a lot cheaper than paying for the traditional trip individually.

Incidentally, you didn't have to take the Romance car (which is not romantic), you could have taken JR to Odawara if your pass will be already valid.

I assume that when you say you are leaving Tokyo in the Romance car, you know that all Odakyu trains leave from Shinjuku station, not Tokyo station.

msb0b

Romance car is the most direct way to get to Hakone from Shinjuku. You step on the train at Shinjuku and step off at Hakone-Yumoto about an hour later. But if you already have the Japan Rail Pass, you could save some money and take the Kodama Shinkansen from Tokyo/Shinagawa to Odawara. You can buy the Hakone Free Pass at Odawara, which costs a little less than buying at Shinjuku because it does not include the round trip base fare on the Odakyu line.

I would spend a night in a ryokan in Hakone and enjoy the hot springs. You can do the Hakone sightseeing loop before going onwards to Kyoto. I second the suggestion to take the Kodama back one station to Shin-Yokohama and change to Hikari to Kyoto.

Rimshotsnap

Thank you all for your very helpful suggestions. You've convinced me to stay the night in Hakone at a traditional inn. (For what it's worth, my two nights in Kyoto will also be traditional style inns).

The reason I am taking the Romance Car vs. the JR pass train is that I've heard the view is beautiful from that particular car. I've booked a front-reserved seat. Maybe this was a waste of $10... oh well.

I feel much more confident in my decision now. Thanks again!

evergrn

Yes, spend a night in Hakone. I second what others have said. But, for whatever it's worth, I'll also point out that it's also doable as a day trip (or en route to Kyoto). I will list some things for you to consider...

- Doing Tokyo to Hakone, then continuing onto Kyoto on the same day is probably only feasible if you don't have a large bag with you. It's hard to hop around Hakone with a bunch of belongings. But if you just have relatively small things, then you can stash them in a locker at Odawara Sta or even Hakone Yumoto Sta. However, large suitcases can be tricky. While Odawara Sta has some large lockers, large station lockers often are sold out and so you can't count on them being available. So if you have a large suitcase and want to do a day trip to Hakone, you'll have to leave it at the hotel. If you don't have a large suitcase, then continuing onto Kyoto from Odawara via shinkansen Hikari is only 1hr more than returning to Shinjuku from Odawara via Romance Car.

- Keep in mind that the Romance Car only goes to Hakone Yumoto, which is essentially the base of Hakone. A trip to Hakone should at least include taking the Ropeway up to Owakudani, and it's 70-90 minutes to get from Yumoto to Owakudani via combo of tozan densha / cable car / ropeway.

- An example day trip could include: 2hr at Chokoku no mori; 1hr at Owakudani (take Ropeway up); 2hr stop in Yumoto for a soak in a day onsen plus some shopping. Including all the transportation time, you could fit all that into a 9 hour time frame from the time you arrive at Yumoto until the time you depart from Yumoto. But if you're going to do all this, then I'd suggest arriving at Yumoto earlier than what you have planned right now. There is a Hikari leaving Odawara at 6.08p (arrives Kyoto at 8.11p).

- But again, it's best to spend a night and enjoy the onsen hotel.

msb0b

Romance Car is unique that certain rolling stocks have front and rear facing windows. You get a very nice view from the first couple of rows. The 9:00 departure on weekends and holidays is one of them. Enjoy!

AlwaysAisle

I am a train geek so I am biased and will recommend taking Odakyu Line�s Romacecar to Hakone.

There are few different type of trains for Romancecar.

Romacecar Trains

VSE (Vault Super Express) 50000 and LSE (Luxury Super Express) 7000 Romancecar has front seating where you get to experience front view of the train. Price of those front seats are same as rest of seats but front seats are prime seats, if you got a ticket for those front seats then you sure are lucky! I will definitely say you should take Romacecar, not Shinkansen. Current schedule for VSE and LSE Romacecar departing Shinjuku are:

Weekdays (Monday � Friday)
10:00 a.m. departure Hakone no. 13 (VSE)
10:40 a.m. departure Hakone no. 15 (VSE, subject to change)
11:40 a.m. departure Hakone no. 19 (LSE, subject to change)
1:40 p.m. departure Hakone no. 29 (VSE)
2:10 p.m. departure Hakone no. 31 (VSE, subject to change)
5:10 p.m. departure Hakone no. 43 (VSE)
5:35 p.m. departure Hakone no. 45 (VSE, subject to change)

Weekends (Saturday, Sunday, and Holidays)
7:00 a.m. departure Hakone no. 1 (LSE, subject to change)
8:30 a.m. departure Hakone no. 7 (LSE, subject to change)
9:00 a.m. departure Hakone no. 9 (VSE)
10:10 a.m. departure Hakone no. 13 (VSE, subject to change)
10:40 a.m. departure Hakone no. 15 (LSE, subject to change)
12:10 a.m. departure Hakone no. 23 (LSE, subject to change)
12:40 a.m. departure Hakone no. 25 (VSE, subject to change)
1:40 p.m. departure Hakone no. 29 (VSE, subject to change)
2:10 p.m. departure Hakone no. 31 (LSE, subject to change)
3:40 p.m. departure Hakone no. 37 (LSE, subject to change)
4:10 p.m. departure Hakone no. 39 (VSE)
5:10 p.m. departure Hakone no. 43 (VSE, subject to change)
5:40 p.m. departure Hakone no. 45 (LSE, subject to change)

LSE trains has regular wagon service with snacks and drinks. VSE trains has a caf� which has seat service, where attendants will serve drinks at your seats where drinks are served using real glassware.

Food and drink service on Romancecar
Food and drink menu on Romancecar

As for the front view from Romancecar, following is YouTube video of Romancecar front view from Shinjuku to Hakoneyumoto.

YouTube Video Romancecar

Yes, the video is an hour and 30 minutes long. But if you jump to 1:05:00 (one hour and five minutes mark) on the video, after going under Toumei Expressway on clear day there will be a view of Mt. Fuji in right front of you. It will be a nice ride to Hakone.

Rimshotsnap

Thank you for such excellent detailed information! One follow-up question for you. My Romance Car reservation is currently in row 4 in a window seat. VSE. Is the view from this seat going to be worthwhile? Or would it be better to simply the train using the JR Pass?

I greatly appreciate your input!

AlwaysAisle

Seat Diagram of VSE (pdf file)

If you have a seat 4A or 4D in Car No. 1 then you are in one of 16 front view seats. Obviously seat 1A, 1B, 1C, and 1D are the front seat which are premium seat which sell out fast.

As to if you should go with Romancecar or Shinkansen? Well, I will be biased because I am a train geek. You will ride on Shinkansen when you are traveling from Hakone to Kyoto anyway, so why not ride on something different from Shinjuku to Hakone? Sure, since you do have JR Pass taking Shinkansen from Tokyo to Odawara will save some money compare with taking Romancecar�, but as I said I am a train geek so my opinion maybe biased.

As which is simpler�, where in Tokyo are you staying? Romancecar will take you directly to Hakone-yumoto from Shinjuku. Taking Shinkansen you do need to transfer at Odawara. Romancecar is more popular than Shinkansen for trip to Hakone, because local Japanese residents do not have such thing as JR Pass. Fare on Odakyu�s Romancecar is cheaper than JR Shinkansen:

Romancecar: Shinjuku-Hakoneyumoto JPY 2020
Shinkansen: Tokyo-Odawara then to Hakoneyumoto JPY 3770

This is the reason most local Japanese in Tokyo heading to Hakone take Romancecar. In your case I think it is your call�

RichardInSF

I must be a real sourpuss because I thought the view from any part of the Romance car pretty much sucked. For the entire trip except for the last few minutes into Hakone Yumoto, I just saw dull industrial/residential developments. Surely someone has seen Mt Fuji as was described above, but almost all the time it is covered with clouds and not visible.

I honestly don't see the value, especially with a valid JR pass where you can take the much faster Kodama shinkansen to allow spending the maximum time in Hakone.

The transfer between JR and Odakyu at Odawara is not hard.

As to where to spend a night in Hakone, if price is no object, spend that night at Gora Kadan. If you have Hyatt points, there is also a nice Hyatt at Gora; there are no other chain hotels in the Hakone area although there is a Hilton at Odawara.

evergrn

It depends. If he really wants the cockpit view, then I'd understand the reasons for wanting to try the Romance Car. I once rode in the very rear seat (facing back), and it was indeed pretty cool. If he's staying in Shinjuku, then it's worth considering because it's a one-shot ride on the comfy Romance Car all the way to Yumoto. With shinkansen, you're transferring most likely twice to get to Yumoto. Even then, the only scenario where it's potentially faster to get to Yumoto by Romance Car rather than shinkansen is if you're staying in Shinjuku. Particularly if he's staying anywhere close to Tokyo or Shinagawa, then there's not much point in first trekking to Shinjuku and then changing to the slower Romance Car.

You're right that, other than the special cockpit view (if you get such seat), there's nothing really special about the view from the Romance Car. I mean, any view from any train in Japan is interesting enough. But it's no different than the view you get from Shinagawa-Odawara on shinkansen or from Odoriko. You can see Mt.Fuji, but it's not the full-on, close-up view that you'll end up getting later from Hakone Ropeway or from Owakudani.

As for places to stay, I caution that, while the Hyatt is very nice, it's not a place to go if you're looking for the prototypical onsen experience. They didn't even have a rotenburo there, to my surprise. There are so many great onsen lodges, both hotels and ryokans, in Hakone. Some of the best places are found near Miyanoshita, around Gora, and Sengokuhara. You can easily do a research on your own to find the place you like that may be offering good rates on the particular day you go on. But I'd first ask yourself the question of whether you'd want to spend some more to get a room with your own en-suite onsen. Personally, I think it's well-worth it.

lsk4jmi

Does anyone ever make the trip in the opposite direction from Kyoto to Hakone then on to Tokyo?

I am taking the train from Tokyo to Takayama for the festival so there is no time for Hakone on the front end of my trip. From Takayama I go to Kyoto for 5 days and this cannot be changed. I am wondering if it is feasable (or makes sense) to take the train to Hakone on the way back to Tokyo. It would be just for one day.

msb0b

I have done this a few years back. It is absolutely feasible. Do note that the direct Hikari train that stops at Odawara runs every other hour. For example, if you miss the 8:29 Hikari 512, the next one is the 10:29 Hikari 516. The helpful clerk at the green windows will try to put you on the direct train when you're reserving seats.

If you just missed the direct Hikari, you can either wait or get creative with the routing. In the above example, if you just missed 8:29 Hikari 512, you can take the 8:56 Hikari 460 arriving Atami at 11:01 and change to the 11:58 Kodama 642 and arrive at Odawara at 11:58, 25 minutes before Hikari 516's arrival time of 12:36.

The Nozomi option is either the 8:32 Nozomi 216 (except Sundays or Holidays) or the 8:43 Nozomi 114 to Nagoya and change to the 9:28 Kodama 640 arriving at Odawara at 11:42.

Once you get to Odawara Station, the counter that sells Hakone Free Pass is very obvious in the concourse, should you choose to buy it.

The points already discussed in this thread also applies to Hakone to Tokyo trip, just in reverse direction.

SQ319

If you are going to Hakone and insist on staying in a chain hotel, then go for the Hyatt, not the Hilton. Simple reason for this is the location.

The Hilton is located in Odawara, not Hakone and is a 30-minute drive from Odawara station along the coast (different direction from Hakone). It's a large family style hotel on a cliff (or hill top) with many dining options, it is not a ryokan or a small hotel (like the Hyatt). There is an onsen on-site as well, but not in-room. The leisure options are aplenty though - swimming pools, mini-water park, bowling alley, karaoke, billards etc.

Just wanted to mention this should anyone want to stay here for the purpose of visiting Hakone.

Having said that though, I think this hotel would be a great getaway for Tokyo residents.