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-   -   Question re going through Security at Narita (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/1493937-question-re-going-through-security-narita.html)

AlwaysAisle Aug 14, 2013 6:08 pm


Originally Posted by AbbyWalsh (Post 21273685)
Thank you. Just to clarify, the route is EWR-NRT (12 days) then NRT-HKG.

The passenger is actually my son, not me. I'll advise him not to pack any more liquids/gels in his carry-on than what he's originally taking from the US. (3 oz or less, in a 1-quart ziplock). Is that good enough?

Narita Airport has a website dedicated to the airport security procedure.

Narita Airport Security

armagebedar Aug 14, 2013 6:31 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 21273785)
Be careful about the international versus domestic rules in that I believe a few domestic flights operated by foreign carriers are treated as international. Sometimes there are people directing traffic or signs that certain domestic connecting passengers must follow the international connections path. This is for DL in Terminal 1 but might affect other USA airlines.

At NRT? No foreign carriers operate domestic routes in Japan (that would be cabotage).

zarkov505 Aug 14, 2013 7:09 pm

First, you will NEVER hear a raised voice at Narita security checkpoints.

Second, they will at ALL times be polite in the way that only Japanese can be polite.

Third, they will move you through much more smoothly than the US TSA does.

*IF* you set off their metal detector, they will do a careful wand search. For that, they will ask you to step up onto a low stool, and they will give you sandals while they check your shoes and wand you down.

*IF* the X-ray sees something that they feel they need a better look at, or *IF* you ask them to hand-check a film camera or photo film, they will NOT touch *ANY* of your property AT ALL until they have explicitly asked permission to examine the item and you have explicitly given permission. This is true EVEN IF you have just asked them to hand-check a film camera that is still in its case. They will STILL ask for explicit permission to touch it, open the case. (I used to carry a 35mm film SLR. I went through the drill twice.) The first time, once permissions had been handled, the inspector looked at it and was immediately satisfied that it was, in fact, a camera. The second time, the inspector looked, said he didn't see anything on the viewfinder display. Without thinking, I said "That's because it is powered off" and reached over and turned the camera on. He looked again, saw the viewfinder display alive, and was immediately satisfied.

I should add this: It was immediately obvious, in both cases, that the inspector knew EXACTLY what he was looking at.

Think about how the US TSA would react if you attempted to touch something while they were "inspecting" it.

For that matter, think about how the US TSA will likely react these days if you ask them to hand-check anything.

Narita airport security personnel are professionals, who do the absolute best they know how to do their job thoroughly while remaining unfailingly polite. The US TSA could learn a lot from them.

HkCaGu Aug 14, 2013 7:36 pm


Originally Posted by armagebedar (Post 21274711)
At NRT? No foreign carriers operate domestic routes in Japan (that would be cabotage).

Not exactly. There are "international flights" that operate between KIX/NGO and NRT, where passengers enter/exit Japan in KIX/NGO and connect airside to/from international flights at NRT. I don't know who operate these now, but NW used to fly NRT-NGO-SPN and NRT-KIX-SPN. This allowed NW to serve the KIX/NGO-SPN markets without basing aircraft at either end, and serve KIX/NGO-USA markets without flying aircraft from USA into KIX/NGO.


Originally Posted by zarkov505 (Post 21274910)
First, you will NEVER hear a raised voice at Narita security checkpoints.

Except at a certain checkpoint when 100 people are in front of you and you'll be queueing next to the end of a walking belt, you'll hear the "the end of the walk is ahead" ladies (automated voices) in British and Japanese about 50 times before you get processed.

BalbC Aug 14, 2013 9:03 pm

Differences:
Walk thought metal detector only, so shoes and belt stay on (unless you know it sets the detector off), no need to empty pockets of non-metallic objects.
Some types of shoes will need to be x-rayed, but officers will politely tell you and provide slippers to use will you wait.
Outerwear, jackets etc. and liquids bag into a tray. Laptops AND ipads/tablets out and remove all cases (TSA cases are not approved here) and into a tray.
You will be treated with politeness and respect. Officers will give instructions without shouting using english and body language. Your items will be well treated as they pass into the machine.

If flying on US-carrier to USA, you may get additional US-style searches at the gate from airline-employed security guards.

armagebedar Aug 14, 2013 11:05 pm


Originally Posted by HkCaGu (Post 21275029)
Not exactly. There are "international flights" that operate between KIX/NGO and NRT, where passengers enter/exit Japan in KIX/NGO and connect airside to/from international flights at NRT. I don't know who operate these now, but NW used to fly NRT-NGO-SPN and NRT-KIX-SPN. This allowed NW to serve the KIX/NGO-SPN markets without basing aircraft at either end, and serve KIX/NGO-USA markets without flying aircraft from USA into KIX/NGO.

I don't believe any airline (Japanese or otherwise) operates these "international" domestic flights anymore. The last one I know of was DL284 operating NGO-NRT but I believe they halted that three years ago. JL did the same thing with their flights.

AlwaysAisle Aug 14, 2013 11:45 pm

Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airlines used to operate route such as Narita-Kansai (Osaka) which was international connection only. Passengers did not clear customs/immigration at Narita but cleared customs immigration at Kansai. Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airlines could do that, obviously because they are Japanese airlines.

Northwest did fly such as NRT-KIX-SPN, but NRT-KIX portion was only available to passengers continuing on international or connection from international flights. Passengers could not simply buy ticket on NRT-KIX portion only and flew purely domestic portion only without having a ticket associated with international flights.

However, this was unique situation, goes back all the way to right after WWII (World War Two). Immediately after the World War II, Japan was under the direction of the U.S. military. I am no historian, but I am not sure if the U.S. officially used the term “occupation” regarding the situation in Japan after the World War II.

Anyway, during the U.S. military control immediately after the World War II, Japan did not have any say in any decision making. PanAm and Northwest Airline contributed a lot during WWII in Pacific. Northwest Airlines pioneered polar route to Asia, flying through Alaska. That was the reason Northwest Airlines painted tail wing red. In case aircraft crash polar region of Alaska, red tail of aircraft was easily visible against white snow background for rescuers.

Anyway, the U.S. government awarded PanAm and Northwest Airlines for its contribution during WWII by giving route authority to Tokyo and same time gave PanAm and Northwest Airlines fifth freedom right beyond Tokyo. Japan had no say over that decision, and Japan was not allowed to have any airlines. Even in 1953 when Japan Airlines resumed operation, Japanese citizens were not allowed to fly aircraft. Japan Airlines flight was piloted by the U.S. pilots back then. PanAm and Northwest Airlines could carry passengers beyond Tokyo as local passengers. PanAm and Northwest could sell ticket and carry passengers originated from Tokyo to other Asian destinations, passengers did not have to originate from the U.S.

United Airlines inherited that fifth freedom right form PanAm, and Delta inherited fifth freedom right from Northwest Airlines.

joejones Aug 15, 2013 2:04 am


Originally Posted by AlwaysAisle (Post 21276013)
Northwest did fly such as NRT-KIX-SPN, but NRT-KIX portion was only available to passengers continuing on international or connection from international flights. Passengers could not simply buy ticket on NRT-KIX portion only and flew purely domestic portion only without having a ticket associated with international flights.

This was also the case with JAL's NRT-NGO "international" flight.


Originally Posted by AlwaysAisle (Post 21276013)
I am no historian, but I am not sure if the U.S. officially used the term “occupation” regarding the situation in Japan after the World War II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan


Originally Posted by AlwaysAisle (Post 21276013)
Anyway, the U.S. government awarded PanAm and Northwest Airlines for its contribution during WWII by giving route authority to Tokyo and same time gave PanAm and Northwest Airlines fifth freedom right beyond Tokyo. Japan had no say over that decision, and Japan was not allowed to have any airlines. Even in 1953 when Japan Airlines resumed operation, Japanese citizens were not allowed to fly aircraft. Japan Airlines flight was piloted by the U.S. pilots back then. PanAm and Northwest Airlines could carry passengers beyond Tokyo as local passengers. PanAm and Northwest could sell ticket and carry passengers originated from Tokyo to other Asian destinations, passengers did not have to originate from the U.S.

There was eventually some reciprocity and Japanese carriers were given fifth freedom rights beyond the US as well. JAL flew from the US to South America for a long time (ending just before their recent bankruptcy). I believe that they also served Mexico through the US at one point, and at one point they even flew transatlantic as part of a round-the-world routing.

The fifth freedoms were kind of necessary for NW and PA at the time as planes didn't have the range to fly nonstop to other Asian countries.

AlwaysAisle Aug 15, 2013 7:50 am

JAL’s fifth freedom flight out of the U.S. started in 1967 (昭和42年) when JAL started Round the World route using newly acquired DC-8. Flight took place twice week and the route was:

Tokyo-Honolulu-San Francisco-New York-London-Paris or Frankfurt-Rome-Cairo-Teheran-Delhi-Bangkok-Hong Kong-Tokyo

Passenger could fly New York-London only. Then Brazil flight started via U.S. I think initially it was Tokyo-Fairbanks-New York-Miami or San Juan then on to South America. The flight changed to via LAX then back to via JFK and the U.S.-Brazil passengers were allowed on the flight. JAL’s Mexico flight went NRT-YVR-MEX never via the U.S. and back then JAL was only carrier flying YVR-MEX. Whatever reasons back then no Canadian or Mexican carrier flew YVR-MEX. I heard JAL did well on YVR-MEX segment when there was no competition.

The point is that JAL did have fifth freedom flight out of the U.S. but number of fifth freedom flights out of the U.S. awarded were very limited compare with how much fifth freedom flights PanAm and Northwest enjoyed out of Tokyo.

One argue that due to geographical and passenger flow, there were very little fifth freedom route out of the U.S. JAL could make use out of. But the point Japanese government (back then JAL was government owned entity so Japanese government includes JAL) had is that back in 1980s before All Nippon Airways started scheduled international flights, something like 80% of passenger traffic between Japan and the U.S. were carried by the U.S. carrier. Japan wanted to make thing more even. But route authorities awarded back in the U.S. occupations days after WWII had JAL in disadvantage compare with PanAm and Northwest. Back in 1980s finally the U.S. started the talk with Japan regarding air route authority to make things more even between the U.S. and Japan.

BuildingMyBento Aug 15, 2013 9:16 am

I appreciate how in Japan (at least at NRT and HND) security staff cover your x-ray tray with another tray. Even with doing that the lines are still more efficient than the gobbledygook in the US.

Not solely for that reason, but Japanese security checkpoints should be the ones to emulate around the globe.

nishimark Aug 15, 2013 7:47 pm

And if you're late for your flight, just tell them. They'll hustle you through and probably provide an escort to make sure you make it to the gate.

I (American) live in Japan and recently flew to the US for some holiday time. The differences between Japanese and US security/immigration are shocking. I dread the return flight, because of the madness at the airport.

RichardInSF Aug 15, 2013 8:54 pm

I have run into rude people at the NRT security checkpoint once -- a screener who seemed deeply offended that I had a bunch of hotel ball point pens in my computer bag. That was immediately followed by a rude cop who was doing the "hassle foreigners at NRT security" bit which seems to have now abated.

Other than that, never a rude experience. But one is a lot more than none.

armagebedar Aug 15, 2013 10:04 pm

This is quite a derail, but I thought I'd post it as a bit of history:


Originally Posted by AlwaysAisle (Post 21276013)
Passengers could not simply buy ticket on NRT-KIX portion only and flew purely domestic portion only without having a ticket associated with international flights.

I remember that if you had a ticket that routed on one of these "domestic-international" flights (on NH/JL at least) but you immigrated at NRT, you could still fly NRT-KIX. The airline would issue you a "domestic portion boarding pass" (国際区間搭乗票) that you'd show to immigration in lieu of a passport (since you still had to depart from the international section of the terminal). At check-in they'd write "CABO" on your boarding pass to denote that the airline was transporting you as cabotage (since NRT-KIX was technically an international route).

AlwaysAisle Aug 16, 2013 6:43 am

I did not know JL/NH did that. JL/NH operated two types of domestic flights out of NRT. One was pure domestic flight, could purchase domestic only could fly as domestic passengers. Any international connecting passengers on this flight cleared passport control and customs at NRT.

Another was international connection flight which was treated as international flight. Only international passengers were allowed on these flights and passengers did not clear customs and passport control at NRT, but did those formalities at the destination such as KIX. However, I did not know that connecting international passengers cleared customs and passport control at NRT could fly on this flights.

JL and NH used to have those international connecting flights just few years ago, because I took them but looks like they do not have international connecting flights now.

Thanks for the info.

joejones Aug 19, 2013 2:36 am

Similar practice in India being discussed in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/india...-terminal.html


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