theYipster

JAL has one of my favorite business classes and the Apex suite (window) is still my favorite business class seat in the sky. I’ve never had the opportunity to fly any of the other JAL “Sky Suites” until right now. I am writing this post from a JAL 787-9 en route to SIN and this is my first time on Sky Suite III. For reference, I believe these seats were made by JAMCO, but I’m not sure. (If someone knows, please confirm.)

I know these seats have a reputation and I must say it’s well deserved. Having flown (and catalogued) almost every configuration of Reverse Herringbone ever put on a plane, with the exception of the new Adient seat, I can say this is easily the worst reverse herringbone configuration I’ve ever flown. Issues are as follows:

- No leg rest. This was a bizarre choice for JAL and the manufacturer. Even the most basic versions of the older Zodiac/Safrac Cirrus have an adjustable leg rest. It’s not as if this seat doesn’t have a complex electrical actuation system, and I can’t imagine omitting a leg benefits costs or complexity at the huge expense of comfort (or the stowage space it eliminates.)

- No stowage. There is no stowage under the seat because there is no leg rest, so the whole seat bottom moves to close off any open space when put in bed mode. There is also no stowage on the side table, which I find bizarre. The cabinet stowage is adequate but not any better than some of the Zodiac/Safran configurations.

- Gap between the seat and the side wall. This is a huge no-no. There is a flimsy gap cover, but if one were to put an iPad between the seat and the window, it would fall right through. The only other reverse herringbone seat I’ve ever experienced that has a similar gap is the original Envoy Seat on US Airways/American A330s. That seat gets a pass because it was the first reverse herringbone seat ever made. It’s also now been fully retired.

- Airbag on seat belt + shoulder belt! I’ve never experience a seat having both. Typically you need one or the other to pass certification. I personally prefer having the airbag (I find putting on airplane shoulder belts for takeoff and landing to be a nuisance,) but I understand why most airlines, designers, and manufacturers have abandoned the airbag for the shoulder belt. Simpler, far cheaper, much less to maintain, and I imagine many passengers don’t’ like having the airbag hump. Still — why would a seat need both?

- Seat comfort. It’s fair to say that within the interiors and seats industry, the biggest design and engineering challenge in business class seating is to produce a seat that is equally comfortable as a seat and as a bed. Typically most seats do better as one or the other, and this is why the fanciest products—like the Etihad “Apartment” or the Singapore Suites give you both. (I find Zodiac/Safran seats more comfortable as seats, whereas Collins SuperDiamonds tend to be more comfortable for me as beds.) I’m not sure what the designer was going for (some people I suppose like hard beds,) but the lack of a leg rest makes this both an uncomfortable seat and an uncomfortable bed for me.

The only plus to this seat: I like how the tray table extends away so you can get out of the seat while eating. That is the only thing I like about it.

In closing, I’d be very curious to understand why JAL and the designer made the choices they made for this seat. It’s not like JAL to skimp on cost, and there does not seem to be a density advantage to this seat vs. Collins or Safran. Overall my guess is that this is a clunky first try from a “me too” manufacturer. If there is a V2, I expect it will be much approved. Hopefully JAL doesn’t keep these seats for long.

JALPak

You have both over the shoulder seat belt and airbag because you can remove the over shoulder belt at cursing altitude

theYipster

This is true of every other business class seat with a shoulder belt, and those seats do not have airbags.

Shoulder Belts are a relatively recent development on business class seats, and they were created specifically to get rid of airbags while continuing to meet crashworthiness requirements for supplemental type certification. Keeping the airbag would seem to negate the need for the shoulder belt.

dvs7310

I actually can't find the seat maker for JL or NH, but this sounds exactly like the seat on NH's 787-9 also, pics I can find look the same as well. That's one of the most LCC like cut-rate business class seats I've experienced in modern times. They're fine if you want to sit up or lay fully down but are a complete disappointment for positions in between. I can overlook the airlines who still have recliners on regional aircraft (JL included), but to install these low end lie flats on a brand new plane isn't a good look.

Interesting what you said about having both a shoulder airbag and lap airbag, that would indeed be uncomfortable. But that's Japan in general for you, there are additional safety measures on many things that would be considered unnecessary and even absurd in much of the rest of the world. It's something expats living here learn to tolerate, but can be annoying. I did fly on a JL 789 last month but was quite hungover and just slept nearly immediately. I can't recall the seat other than the fact it allowed me to sleep the entire way from BKK-HND, but looking at the seatmap, it should have been the same one you're talking about.

JALPak

JAL SKY SUITE III is the Zodiac Aries seat

CPH-Flyer

​​​​​​Quite different seats between NH 787-9 and JL

JL Skysuite III

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NH 787-9


The Skysuite III is probably one of the least attractive reverse herringbone seats out there. The lag of a legrest does quite annoy me, but otherwise it works pretty well for intra Asia flights. Admittedly Singapore and Jakarta are quite long intra Asia flights, that really should see the Apex Suites on night flights.
One point from my side is that getting a window seat on Skysuite III is actually more important than on the Apex Suites.

dvs7310

Ah right, now that you've got them side by side I do remember NH being staggered. But that's a pretty low budget seat too with no independent leg rest adjustment, when I booked it I actually thought it was the same as the original staggered 77W seat, which I recall being fairly hard as a bed but a pretty good seat overall. Joke was on me. Maybe I'm the only one, but I enjoy siting slightly reclined but with my legs fully up when watching movies or even eating to some extent. I don't like having the choice being basically all or nothing. JL's seat you pictured accomplishes the same annoyance in a different way. Adding insult to injury neither JL nor NH are what I'd call 'cheap' intra-Asia. CX and MH typically both blow the doors off of their prices and CX especially has a good hard product on the A350s and a some of the A330s. I've very content to spend an hour or two in CXs F lounge to make a connection.

ZBigFam

I'm a bit concerned I'm flying this seat from hnd to ord on 10/6. Any experiences for long haul international? Any recommendations on which seats to select or avoid?

CPH-Flyer

Make sure to get a window seat, the footwell is a good deal larger than the middle seats. Bulkhead rows more so than regular window seats.


I have posted a similar picture before, but the window side footwell is not that small.

There is space under the footwell to have your shoes without them being squeezed by the reclining seat. Nothing more than shoes.

Things don't fall down between the window and the seat, but yes there is an trough there.

I am not trying to say it is a great seat, it is not. But it is probably not an entire disaster either. For the original intention of intra Asia flighs it was quite adequate for most. Problem is that it is now quite often beyond intra Asia.

Daytona

The feeling when you paid for long haul J and ended up in a SS III seat

JALPak

iOS autocorrect knows what I meant to say

ZBigFam

Argh, I'm crossing fingers for an equipment swap but I doubt that highly...thanks as always CPH you have been a great help.

f3rancis

I wonder how the Zipair reverse herringbone seats compares to the SSIII. Could it be better?

CPH-Flyer

pesos posted picture of the footwell in a thread somewhere. Think it was hiim at least. The window side footwell seemed smaller than SSIII. The Zip seat is by Jamco.

cyborg

I prefer the window in the SSIII, but experienced an uncomfortable sleep in seat 8A with the E91 configuration (first row of second cabin). Too much engine vibration which is something I never experienced in other 787 series seats (Seat 3A was fine on a recent trip) nor was it a problem with other first row second cabin suites like UA polaris (787 and 777). Might have had something to do with the way the seat is designed combined with the location near the wing mount and engine.

Cheers,

-Cyborg