skewbedew

Hi Flyertalkers,

I had an unfortunate experience, recently flying on JAL - and wanted to share it with President Ueki. I scoured the website on JAL, but can't seem to find it there or on the internet. Does anyone on here know what his email address is? Thank you in advance.

dlinsider

On th JAL webpage there is a link on top of the page that says "CONTACT US"...by clicking on that you will get several links to send an email that is applicable to your situation.I am sure JAL has a dedicated team to handle complaints and unfortunate experiences.

armagebedar

Indeed -- it is highly unlikely you will be able to communicate directly with the president. Executives at Japanese companies are not known for that level of engagement with customers.

joejones

In fact, many of them are not known for using computers.

JALPak

LOL I am sure Ueki knows how to use a computer…at least the computers in the cockpits and LinkedIn (or at least his assistant does)

Sarfa33

All of the top executives at JL have assistants that read and respond to most (all?) of their email.

To OP, I did a search in both English and Japanese and was not able to find Ueki-san's email address published anywhere online. Even if you found it, though, I suspect that the most that would happen is that his assistant would forward it to the customer service department (especially if it's written in English!) and they would handle it anyway, so you're better off just sending it to them from the beginning.

Care to share the details of your bad experience?

-S

skewbedew

Hi Sarfa33

You enquired why I wanted to contact the president of JAL, I will copy the communications that I have had with Japan Airlines and their responses.



I would like everyone to see how I was treated, and continue to be treated. Feel free to write any comments below - and pass it on. I would never want someone else to be in the same predicament as I was in. Customers have a choice with airline travel, I would advise if you don't want to be stuck, consider alternative companies then JAPAN AIRLINES.

Here are the complete and current communications between myself and Japan airlines.. in regards to the horrible airline service that I received in Tokyo,Japan. Japan airlines was supposed to provide me service from Tokyo to Shanghai – but didn’t. They insisted that American Airlines should assist me and then shut the lights out on me. The out of pocket costs would total more then $2000. I also missed out on a major part of my holiday in Shanghai, China. My tickets were on AA stock (meaning the first flight was operated by AA – but Japan airlines was supposed to get me to Shanghai) Missing this flight would cause all the rest of the flights on my ticket to be cancelled – due to a no show. Most importantly, if I did nothing in regards to my tickets, my return ticket back to the USA and Canada would be cancelled. The first letter is the one that I sent to Japan Airlines, and the subsequent are their responses. It was emailed on February 7th, 2014



I was flying on an international round the world ticket,with the
major portions on my outbound travel from North America on
Japan Airlines.I flew from Chicago to Tokyo and then after a week
layover in Tokyo - I would arrive at Narita Airport to check in to my
flights to Shanghai approximately 3 hours before. When I arrived at
the check in desk, I was inquired about my visa to China. I
explained that I was transiting through Shanghai, and that as a
Canadian citizen I would be allowed to stay in China for a
maximum 72 hours, providing that I was transiting to another
country;in my case to Thailand. I provided my onward flight details-
which were on China Southern Airlines for 3 days after the initial
arrival in Shanghai.My flights were with a connection on the
outbound in Wuhan China, a place that I did not understand that
Canadians or American citizens could not connect via connections.
As a result of not being able to travel to Shanghai - All my onward
travels were canceled- I had to reroute my flights through Bangkok
and incur a very sizable penalty and rebooking charge. Even after
showing the check-in agent and subsequent supervisors my onward
travels- and tickets to Thailand and India before heading back to
Beijing, China - The response from Japan Airlines was that it was
my fault and that they had no responsibility to help me out in this
situation. They also would not offer any alternate flight
arrangements - due to what was an honest mistake that I made-I
have read nowhere else that connections through Wuhan could not
be done for US and Canadian citizens.Being that it was an honest
mistake and that I was more then 10,000 kms away from home,
could Japan airlines not have had the courtesy to assist me and at
least offer me alternate arrangements or the possibility of taking a
flight to China after I was able to obtain a visa ? The way that I was
treated at the airport was not humane.They actually turned the
lights out on me ?
the supervisor told me to get out - and that I was on my own. It
left me in tears. I had nowhere to turn and all the remainder of my
flights, and importantly, my return ticket home would be lost unless
I rebooked and rerouted my ticket. Leaving me no alternative
option - I would change my flight to fly to Bangkok - and would lose
my tickets from Shanghai to Bangkok and from Bangkok to Beijing
- as well as the experience of traveling to Shanghai. I would now
be responsible for having to purchase alternative flights and
accomodation in order to use my existing tickets. It should be
noted that I had the most amazing experience in Japan with some
incredible and endearing Japanese people. In fact, I didn't want to
leave the country. But the experience of traveling on Japan Airlines
has marred my wonderful holiday. Never again will I fly on JAL,
and I will also share my experiences with others. I am a traveling
tour guide and have lead many tours around the world.Respectfully
submitted, Robert Kinkley

Mr. Robert Kinkley response from JAL group ref.394810
[email protected] ([email protected])

Add to contacts

2/12/14



To: [email protected]

Dear Mr. Kinkley,

We appreciate your patience as we took the time to carefully review
the matters brought up in your correspondence regarding your
experience at Narita Airport.

As you may know, IATA Timatic is the industry standard used by
airlines and travel agents to verify customers travel document
requirements for their destination and any transit points. We use
this information to ensure our customers have required documents
at check-in. Timatic states nationals of Canada are not permitted to
use multiple-stop transit within China, if transiting through
Wuhan. We feel sorry that you were not able to take the original
flight to Shanghai.

As your ticket has restrictions when changing flights, our
representatives at Narita Airport had their own limits to assist you.
But we deeply apologize for the inconvenience which you
experienced as our representatives were lack of attentiveness in
assisting you.

Your comments have been carefully reviewed among the airport
representatives in Narita and they were duly reminded to become
more attentive and tactful to assist customers as much as possible
whenever our customer is in trouble.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to share your
experience with Japan Airlines.

While we understand that this experience may have left you with a
less than positive impression of our services it is our hope that you
will not be dissuaded from using Japan Airlines for your future
travels.

Sincerely yours,

O.
Customer Support
Japan Airlines Co., Ltd.
RKV/C-394810CM03
RE: Mr. Robert Kinkley response from JAL group ref.394810
Robert Kinkley


3/04/14

To: [email protected]

Dear O. at Customer Support, Japan Airlines Co., Ltd.

I received your response in reference to File: RKV/C-394810CM03 and was most disappointed. You have an absolutely beautiful country and I have found the people to be friendly and interested in anyone who comes to enjoy Japan. I am, however, saddened by the representatives of your airline who, obviously, are only in it for monetary reasons and care nothing about the people who visit and openly admire your land.

Canada is also a beautiful country. We are known as a friendly nation with a loving heart. Never would a tourist be made to feel alone and unaided in a similar situation to mine. As I mentioned in my previous letter, because of this ruling of yours it cost me a lot of money to re route. The rerouting of my flight was $820 USD, I would lose my tickets from China to Bangkok worth nearly $600, have to purchase a separate Bangkok to Beijing ticket $250, I lost out of the accomodation in Shanghai and the experience of traveling to this amazing land. I would also be forced to purchase new accomodation in Bangkok. It cost me several hundreds of dollars. As a very experienced international traveler, I have always been given the courtesy of having any unusual trip exclusions explained to me ahead of time. This was not done. But even more than that, your agent's ill mannered treatment at that time of need was inexcusable. My case should have been considered an emergency, and dealt with in the same manner. The chief of ground operations for Japan Airlines, should not have shut the lights out on me - nor said that she was tired, and it was time to go home. This simply would not have been tolerated in Canada. I am frankly surprised at the lack of diplomacy involved in this matter. I will give you an example of what happened to my father when he was traveling to Germany to visit my sister. Upon arrival at JFK airport, He was checking in on Singapore Airlines to Frankfurt. When they checked his passport, they realized that his passport was expiring in less then 6 months and he would not be permitted to board the flight to Germany. A supervisor was summonsed and after learning of the circumstances, the outbound flight was changed to the next day. No stress was given or received. Singapore Airlines is also a leading airline in Asia, they also knew that my father had made an innocent mistake, regarding a visa issue, and changed it for him.

In spite of the fact that I showed all the pertinent flight details for my onward travels to China, Thailand and India, Japan airlines chose to look the other direction. "Not our problem, contact American Airlines" The lack of ethos, morality and integrity brought me to tears. This is so unlike the traditional Japanese way, I had a marvelous week in Japan with some of the most amazing individuals that I have ever met. Enjoying the splendor of your magical land, and then arrived at the airport with a crisis and Japan airlines shut the lights out on me. This is certainly not justifiable.

I have traveled to many countries and shared my interests and enthusiasm with many people. I can still do that with regard to your country, but will certainly never recommend Japan Airlines to anyone as I don't feel I was treated fairly. You can still fix this glaring mistake, accept some responsibility for the horrible decisions made by your management- do the right thing!

Please reconsider your action on my behalf. Thank you!

Robert Kinkley
-------- Original message --------
From: [email protected]
Date:
To: [email protected]
Subject: Mr. Robert Kinkley response from JAL group ref.399417

Dear Mr. Kinkley,

Thank you for your reply March 04, 2014.

We understand your situation that you had pay extra money and we
do sympathize with the situation. However, as customers are
advised to prepare appropriate travel documents before checking in
flight, we deeply regret to inform you that we are not responsible for
the expense that you declared. We are sorry that we are not able to
assist you on your expense.

Although we regret that we are not able to accommodate all of your
requests in your email, your kind understanding is greatly
appreciated.

We continue to value your support of our airlines, and hope to serve
you again under more favorable circumstances.

Sincerely yours,

O.
Customer Support
Japan Airlines Co., Ltd.
RKV/C-399417CM03

RE: Mr. Robert Kinkley response from JAL group ref.399417
Robert Kinkley


3/05/14

To: [email protected]

You should be ashamed as an airline. I will never, ever, fly on your airline again. I intend to indicate to the world through as many colleagues and friends- my harrowing experience on JAL. To say that it was my fault is rediculous! All that Japan airlines had to do was extend my ticket by 2 days, thus allowing me to get a visa for China. Instead it cost me thousands of dollars.The cold heartedness on all the staff at Narita airport has left me with an awful taste in my mouth. You have countless empty seats on every flight. Really O? There was nothing that Japan airlines could do before and nothing that you CAN do now to fix this horrible situation?

Shameful. Absoulutely.Shameful.
and I then sent this message shortly afterwards.
RE: Mr. Robert Kinkley response from JAL group ref.399417
Robert Kinkley


3/06/14

To: [email protected]

Dear O.
Customer Support
Japan Airlines Co., Ltd.
I just wanted to let to let you know that I am disgusted by your email, and I am not going to go away. I DO NOT feel that you have been reasonable at all. I would expect this kind of response from a bargain airline, and not from the likes of a major airline such as Japan Airlines.

I fully intend to get the message out, will place my experience on as many social media sites as possible - newspapers and will contact IATA to make a formal complaint against your airline.

Your response to me is outrageous. I am not asking for the earth - I am asking for the money back that I was FORCED to pay, because of the cold-heartedness of staff of your airline. To condone their horrible actions, is inexcusable.

Furthermore, I would like to have the email address for President Yoshiharu Ueki, I would like to personally contact him, and explain the horrible treatment that I received from your company.

Sincerely Yours,

Robert Kinkley

-------- Original message --------
From: [email protected]
Date:
To: [email protected]
Subject: Mr. Robert Kinkley response from JAL group ref.399578

Dear Mr. Kinkley,

Thank you for your prompt reply.

We feel sorry that our previous emails may make you frustrated
where we did not intend to do so, and we are afraid to inform
you that we would have to decline your request.

While we regret that this experience did not lend itself to a more
positive impression of our services, we hope that this does not
dissuade you from choosing Japan Airlines for future travel to Asia.
It is our genuine hope that you will allow us the opportunity to
serve you again on a future flight.

Sincerely yours,

O.
Customer Support
Japan Airlines Co., Ltd.
RKV/C-399578/399748CM03

RE: Mr. Robert Kinkley response from JAL group ref.399578
Robert Kinkley


3/07/14

To: [email protected]

Dear O.

You sound like a broken record. "Sorry that you had a negative experience on our airline" ... you are ignoring everything in my email and writing the same thing over again. I asked for a direct email address of your president Yoshiharu Ueki, so that I can send him a copy of our conversations. You ignored this completely.

When I got to Beijing, China, three days ago, I asked to speak to the AA supervisor. I told her of my awful experience on your airline. She told me that as JAL was the provider on my journey from NRT-PVG, you could have extended my ticket and that you had 100% access to changing and helping me. She said that they extend tickets "everyday"

My direct anger to your airline is the lack of assistance, ethos and common decency; when I showed all the documentations pertaining to my itinerary and the connections through Thailand India and China from Japan.

There is no justification for your representatives to shut the lights out, or say that its time to go home because I'm tired. How can you justify this O? Try to stay focused and answer each of the things that I am writing about.

Save the crap at the end about hoping to serve me again soon. If you had read anything that I actually wrote, you would see that I have indicated that I will never fly again on your airline. I intend to make formal complaints to Iata and OneWorld about JAL and will share my experience of your cold heartedness and the result of thousands of dollars in losses because of the lack of extension of my ticket due to an honest mistake. I will send out my letter to as many major newspapers that can write about this experience. Won't Japan Airlines love to read about themselves. I will share my experience on as many social media boards as possible. I will not give up. The wrong person has been wronged. How can you continue to justify this O?? Airlines change flights all the time, cancel and reschedule them as well. But disagree that there was nothing that could be done to assist me. I never asked for the world- extend ing my ticket by two days to get a visa for China is not the world!

I will get my money back that is owed. Japan airlines will get so much negative publicity over it. I feel like I am talking to a robot. I dont know how you can sleep at night. You continue to ignore everything that I write about.

Really shocked and dismayed former JAL customer, Robert Kinkley

JALPak

Sorry to hear about your experience. Sure AA/JAL could have extended your ticket as a courtesy but they are under no obligation to do so. One thing I like about Japan is that rules are rules, and in this case you have to change a ticket because of your own mistake and therefore are expected to pay for the penalty as specified in the fare rules.

I understand even seasoned international travelers and even international tour guide like you make mistakes like this from time to time, that's why I usually buy travel insurance to cover cases like this.

JALPak

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/china...nt-notice.html

As experts on the China forum has pointed out it is the right thing to refuse boarding, JAL is simply doing things by the book.

YuropFlyer

As much as I dislike japan, they simply were right in this case.

You could have asked in the thread that JALPak linked already, and you would have gotten the right answer (as many did before).

(I actually expected this thread to be about JAL _not_ correctly knowing the 72 hours TWOV rule before clicking on it )

So - you've my sympathy, but nope, JAL did nothing wrong here. Sure, they could have been more supportive, but then I wouldn't have expected anything else from them.

JDiver

FlyerTalk does not allow cross-posting, so your threads / posts have been merged.

For your privacy, I also would suggest redacting your name and e-mail details (bad people are known to cruise the 'net with their spiders looking for targets for spam and malware). Use the "Edit" button to do so. I have redacted the name of the JL employee, as we do not allow the use of non-management employees on FT to be published for those same privacy reasons (also listed in the FlyerTalk Rules - drop down form the "Help" item in the upper menu bar).

We're undoubtedly sorry to hear of your difficult experience.

JDiver
Senior Moderator

Mod hat off: harsh words = major loss of face, meaning not taken seriously, and make one's cause unworthy. The usual reaction is a "hardening of the attitudes" from the persons one wishes concessions from. Something to be aware of when dealing with people of Japan, and a number of other countries. Even worse when one is in the wrong.

For others who may be thinking of similar trips, the China Forum has a visa "sticky" ably attended by the four China Ambassadors, with links to such resources as IATA TimaticWeb, where one may input a number of trip details and obtain the very same information used by airline ticket agents when they make a decision to allow one to fly because they meet the document needs of countries to be traveled to (or not). Agents are understandably rigid about these things: their airline will be liable to significant fines and is responsible for flying you back to where you were improperly allowed to board (at the airline's expense), and the employee who allowed it may be both subject to discipline from the airline and personally fined.

Unimatrix One

If the ticket was issued by AA, does JL even have the capability to make changes? My understanding is that only the issuing airline can touch the reservation.

Did you even try to talk to AA about the problem?

stargold

Too late now, but the easiest thing to do when the issue arose at NRT was simply to buy a new ticket/change your old ticket to travel on a PVG-BKK non-stop flight. Then JL would have been able to let you travel NRT-PVG.

Otherwise, if and until you had a flight eligible for the TWOV, JL were not obliged to (and indeed should not have) carried you to PVG. You would have been refused admission into China, and JL would have had to carry you back to NRT after paying a penalty for your deportation. If this happened, no doubt you would have been screaming instead that they were irresponsible to let you fly to PVG when you did not have the appropriate travel documents.

They were also entirely correct that they were not able to touch AA-issued tickets, unless it was an unexpected cancellation or delay on a JL flight which they had the responsibility to sort out. This was not one of those cases.

Frankly, particularly as a "travelling tour guide" on any level of professionalism, the onus was very much on you to make yourself eligible to travel into China. You were not, so JL refused you boarding. I don't know what you would expect them to have done for you, other than try harder at sugar coating the inevitable outcome.

PS. Just an observation - you already stated in your very first email that "Never again will I fly on JAL, and I will also share my experiences with others. I am a traveling tour guide and have lead many tours around the world." May I respectfully suggest that you did not exactly give them very much motivation to try very hard if you already vowed at the outset that you were never going to travel on JAL again anyway.

virmaior

I'm sorry to hear of your difficulty.

Unfortunately, JAL is in the right here. I severely doubt Canadian airlines magically waive these sort of requirements for flyers from anywhere about transporting someone without a legitimate visa (as you appear to claim).

The 72-hour visa transit rule requires you to stay in the city you are transiting in (or a clearly delineated area). This is clearly stated. Otherwise, you need to acquire a visa.

Aldo B

Also I think the OP suggests that he should have been able to change the ticket to a few days later so he could obtain a Chinese visa. As far as I know, you may not get a Chinese visa in Japan unless you are a resident of Japan and even so, it will take quite a few days.

That said, although I favour Japan Airlines to all European/American competitors, customer service has a lot of aspects to improve in case of extraordinary situations (e.g. cancellations, delays).