Racist meal service?
Jul 21, 2012, 10:27 am
#46
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,934
Hello Tak, that's very interesting.
In my experience I have lots of Japanese coworkers who think 28 degrees in the office (same temperature setting as that in JAL planes) is too hot. In the office they always say 暑い暑い (hot! hot!), even when the suggested setting was 26 degrees C a few years back. Also around the time when they start recommending that the temperature of 28 degrees has to be maintained in the office, the topic of advising people to use "Cool Biz" attire comes up. If it's advisable to do Cool Biz at 28 degrees then it seems to me that 28 degrees is obviously not a comfortable temperature.
It's things like these that make it hard for me to accept that this temperature is what most Japanese prefer. Whether they find it comfortable just because they're in an airplane is something I don't know, but I would postulate instead that most Japanese would not bother to comment and just make 我慢 (gaman, bear with it) during the flight.
In my experience I have lots of Japanese coworkers who think 28 degrees in the office (same temperature setting as that in JAL planes) is too hot. In the office they always say 暑い暑い (hot! hot!), even when the suggested setting was 26 degrees C a few years back. Also around the time when they start recommending that the temperature of 28 degrees has to be maintained in the office, the topic of advising people to use "Cool Biz" attire comes up. If it's advisable to do Cool Biz at 28 degrees then it seems to me that 28 degrees is obviously not a comfortable temperature.
It's things like these that make it hard for me to accept that this temperature is what most Japanese prefer. Whether they find it comfortable just because they're in an airplane is something I don't know, but I would postulate instead that most Japanese would not bother to comment and just make 我慢 (gaman, bear with it) during the flight.
Jul 21, 2012, 4:03 pm
#47
formerly gemini573
Join Date: Jun 2003
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A bit OT as it doesn't deal about meals, but with regards to cabin temperature, JAL will set it at a temperature which is "comfortable for Japanese" as has been mentioned to me many times by the FA when I asked why it was so hot.
With regards to food, I've been lucky to get my choice most of the times. There were one or two times when I was told that they ran out of my choice and after saying then that in that case I didn't need a meal, surprise surprise, they magically came up with my choice of meal from somewhere.
With regards to food, I've been lucky to get my choice most of the times. There were one or two times when I was told that they ran out of my choice and after saying then that in that case I didn't need a meal, surprise surprise, they magically came up with my choice of meal from somewhere.
I will agree with you. The cabin temperature is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. A year ago, I was on the NRT-LAX flight in J and I thought I was getting sick. I couldn't stop sweating and wasn't able to sleep one bit because of the hot cabin.
They need to understand, when you set the temperature at 28C and have a full cabin, the temperature will go up!
It was because of that experience, I vowed never to fly with them again. They have great service and food, but I can't stand being in a sauna for 12 hours.
Jul 21, 2012, 6:03 pm
#48
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AS, BA, AA
Posts: 3,670
I had the opposite experience; I was on a JAL overnight flight and they ran out of Western breakfasts, so I asked for a coach meal instead. They asked another J pax to switch, and I was able to get a Western breakfast. I wish they had been racist and saved the French toast for me!
Next time I fly JAL, I will be requesting a seafood-allergy meal, or the closest thing they offer. Every single bit of food in the J cabin (sushi meal, snack crackers, ramen in "chicken" broth, EVERYTHING except the western breakfast) had either dashi or shellfish in it.
Next time I fly JAL, I will be requesting a seafood-allergy meal, or the closest thing they offer. Every single bit of food in the J cabin (sushi meal, snack crackers, ramen in "chicken" broth, EVERYTHING except the western breakfast) had either dashi or shellfish in it.
Jul 21, 2012, 6:37 pm
#49
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Posts: 1,231
I just came back from Japan this week.
The fight was even warmer this time, and my wife who usually requests extra blanket said it was hot today.
When I was 1K member on United, I did not feel cold much because I got used to , but now I use Jal most time, and fly domestic on United, I feel freezing.
Next month, I fly 5times on JAL so I will ask how JAL CA will answer if someone complain the warm cabin.
The fight was even warmer this time, and my wife who usually requests extra blanket said it was hot today.
When I was 1K member on United, I did not feel cold much because I got used to , but now I use Jal most time, and fly domestic on United, I feel freezing.
Next month, I fly 5times on JAL so I will ask how JAL CA will answer if someone complain the warm cabin.
Jul 21, 2012, 9:15 pm
#50
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
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I had the opposite experience; I was on a JAL overnight flight and they ran out of Western breakfasts, so I asked for a coach meal instead. They asked another J pax to switch, and I was able to get a Western breakfast. I wish they had been racist and saved the French toast for me!
Next time I fly JAL, I will be requesting a seafood-allergy meal, or the closest thing they offer. Every single bit of food in the J cabin (sushi meal, snack crackers, ramen in "chicken" broth, EVERYTHING except the western breakfast) had either dashi or shellfish in it.
Next time I fly JAL, I will be requesting a seafood-allergy meal, or the closest thing they offer. Every single bit of food in the J cabin (sushi meal, snack crackers, ramen in "chicken" broth, EVERYTHING except the western breakfast) had either dashi or shellfish in it.
Or at least you can explain to the CA about your allergy and request them to save you that main dish that you can take. But glad that eventually you were able to enjoy the Western breakfast. Another case to show JAL would try to take care of you even you are non-Japanese
If it's a long-haul flight, they usually they have a non-seafood sandwich fruit plate and salad on the a la carte menu too.
Jul 22, 2012, 12:58 am
#51
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tokyo, SFO
Programs: JAL Global Club Sapphire
Posts: 50
If something is not right on one of the two Japanese airlines, CALL THEM OUT ON IT....The Japanese customers due to Confucian hierarchy stuff and "not wanting to make a scene" aren't likely to do this-so if you do it correctly, it is very effective as complaints are rare and therefore taken very seriously.
Get the FA's attention and when they come over to your seat, just say a little louder than usual (just so another 1-3 people can hear, "I don't understand why I wasn't able to get such and such a meal, would you be able to explain that to me" or "I am not sure why it is so hot in here can we adjust the temperature downwards." Failing at customer service is a big no no in Japanese culture. 80% of the time this works. But remember to be firm and kind-no curses, insults, indignation, etc.
If something really bad happens service wise (which has about a 1% or less chance of occurring), ask for a comment card to be handed in at the end of the flight. It is my understanding if they get one of those, the "team" has to have a mandatory meeting to talk about what happened-after a 12+ hour flight nobody wants to stay another couple of hours.......
Just remember no matter how bad you think it is on JAL or ANA - it's a privilege....for most North Americans the alternative is to have obasans (old ladies) yelling at you and sitting in the back of the plane playing sudoku rather than helping you (Delta, United, American, etc). It's a huge honor to be a flight attendant in Japan and they mostly get it right.
Get the FA's attention and when they come over to your seat, just say a little louder than usual (just so another 1-3 people can hear, "I don't understand why I wasn't able to get such and such a meal, would you be able to explain that to me" or "I am not sure why it is so hot in here can we adjust the temperature downwards." Failing at customer service is a big no no in Japanese culture. 80% of the time this works. But remember to be firm and kind-no curses, insults, indignation, etc.
If something really bad happens service wise (which has about a 1% or less chance of occurring), ask for a comment card to be handed in at the end of the flight. It is my understanding if they get one of those, the "team" has to have a mandatory meeting to talk about what happened-after a 12+ hour flight nobody wants to stay another couple of hours.......
Just remember no matter how bad you think it is on JAL or ANA - it's a privilege....for most North Americans the alternative is to have obasans (old ladies) yelling at you and sitting in the back of the plane playing sudoku rather than helping you (Delta, United, American, etc). It's a huge honor to be a flight attendant in Japan and they mostly get it right.
Last edited by peloton; Jul 22, 2012 at 12:59 am Reason: left out a word
Jul 22, 2012, 4:47 pm
#52
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,099
If something is not right on one of the two Japanese airlines, CALL THEM OUT ON IT....The Japanese customers due to Confucian hierarchy stuff and "not wanting to make a scene" aren't likely to do this-so if you do it correctly, it is very effective as complaints are rare and therefore taken very seriously.
Get the FA's attention and when they come over to your seat, just say a little louder than usual (just so another 1-3 people can hear, "I don't understand why I wasn't able to get such and such a meal, would you be able to explain that to me" or "I am not sure why it is so hot in here can we adjust the temperature downwards." Failing at customer service is a big no no in Japanese culture. 80% of the time this works. But remember to be firm and kind-no curses, insults, indignation, etc.
If something really bad happens service wise (which has about a 1% or less chance of occurring), ask for a comment card to be handed in at the end of the flight. It is my understanding if they get one of those, the "team" has to have a mandatory meeting to talk about what happened-after a 12+ hour flight nobody wants to stay another couple of hours.......
Just remember no matter how bad you think it is on JAL or ANA - it's a privilege....for most North Americans the alternative is to have obasans (old ladies) yelling at you and sitting in the back of the plane playing sudoku rather than helping you (Delta, United, American, etc). It's a huge honor to be a flight attendant in Japan and they mostly get it right.
Get the FA's attention and when they come over to your seat, just say a little louder than usual (just so another 1-3 people can hear, "I don't understand why I wasn't able to get such and such a meal, would you be able to explain that to me" or "I am not sure why it is so hot in here can we adjust the temperature downwards." Failing at customer service is a big no no in Japanese culture. 80% of the time this works. But remember to be firm and kind-no curses, insults, indignation, etc.
If something really bad happens service wise (which has about a 1% or less chance of occurring), ask for a comment card to be handed in at the end of the flight. It is my understanding if they get one of those, the "team" has to have a mandatory meeting to talk about what happened-after a 12+ hour flight nobody wants to stay another couple of hours.......
Just remember no matter how bad you think it is on JAL or ANA - it's a privilege....for most North Americans the alternative is to have obasans (old ladies) yelling at you and sitting in the back of the plane playing sudoku rather than helping you (Delta, United, American, etc). It's a huge honor to be a flight attendant in Japan and they mostly get it right.
What do i suggest? Knock yourself out with sleeping tablets, get enough status to have arrival lounge access etc.
Fumitani has complained formally a couple of times and got the some wank back. Before anyone suggests it, complaining in Japanese is likely to yield more wank than complaining in English as the English language thank god is harder to say something without saying anything at all.
Last edited by Simmo; Jul 22, 2012 at 8:17 pm Reason: spelling
Jul 22, 2012, 8:08 pm
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: UKB
Posts: 11,436
Fumitani has complained formally a couple of times and got the some wank back. Before anyone suggests it, complaining in Japanese is likely to yield more wank than complaining in English as the English language thank god is harder to say something without saying anything at all.
Even when I ask for direct answer in ENGLISH or Japanese they reply 'we will let upper mangement know about your comment
'
Jul 22, 2012, 8:29 pm
#54
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,099
I guess at least they are polite about it and nice they noticed Japanese isn`t my native language but don`t be fooled into believing you can change JAL by submitting a couple of complaints about meal service which is quite obviously status related or complaining about cabin temperature. My Japanese gf is cold with anything under 25 degrees and we have constant fights about it so just imagine what the people seeing your complain are thinking????? "What a funny request...I`ll delete that email or throw that comment card out". If you need to understand how JAL think, I`d recommend just getting a Japanese GF over submitting complaints with them.
Next someone will be saying that they saw someone not Japanese looking perhaps having very dark skin colour (for the sake of argument - SHOCK HORROR!) get their bags from the bag carrousel first therefore JAL is racist again against Japanese in this case!
Last edited by Simmo; Jul 22, 2012 at 9:32 pm
Jul 23, 2012, 6:15 pm
#55
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
If something is not right on one of the two Japanese airlines, CALL THEM OUT ON IT....The Japanese customers due to Confucian hierarchy stuff and "not wanting to make a scene" aren't likely to do this-so if you do it correctly, it is very effective as complaints are rare and therefore taken very seriously.
The following wasn't the reason for sending the complaint, but I'd mention it while we are on the subject.
I have seen meal orders being taken in a seemingly odd order. I (OWE) was was in the 2nd row of business class and was skipped entirely, after they asked the couple in the first row. They took the order from those further down the back, then went back to the couple in the front row, whose choices they had already taken and accepted, and told them that there was no more Japanese meal left and they only had the western meal. The couple in front of me seemed a bit put out, as it was far too obvious that their choices were 'bumped' for someone else who asked for a Japanese meal after they did. That shouldn't have happened. I have no idea why those who were asked first were singled out for not giving them their choice of meal, either.
When they finally came round to me (not sure why I was left to the last although I suspect they plain forgot) they said there was no Japanese meal left. I had already realised that, and I couldn't be bothered saying or asking anything so I didn't, but I felt that the way they took the meal order left much to be desired.
I believe the crew members were unusually dud though. The route was leisure-heavy, and the crew members were not even up to 10% of the standard of the domestic F crew for instance. They seemed disorganised and well below the usual JL crew standards, so I suspect I had been forgotten (just like they forgot my drink order) and they came to ask me when they realised they forgot, rather than anything intentional. Still, I had never seen this kind of bad services from JL crew before so I was quite surprised.
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Jul 23, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Jul 23, 2012, 6:44 pm
#56
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,099
I complained online about the way the meal was served and I received a very detailed reply within about half a day. I am not sure if it had done any good, but at least it was acknowledged and appear to have been given some consideration.
The following wasn't the reason for sending the complaint, but I'd mention it while we are on the subject.
I have seen meal orders being taken in a seemingly odd order. I (OWE) was was in the 2nd row of business class and was skipped entirely, after they asked the couple in the first row. They took the order from those further down the back, then went back to the couple in the front row, whose choices they had already taken and accepted, and told them that there was no more Japanese meal left and they only had the western meal. The couple in front of me seemed a bit put out, as it was far too obvious that their choices were 'bumped' for someone else who asked for a Japanese meal after they did. That shouldn't have happened. I have no idea why those who were asked first were singled out for not giving them their choice of meal, either.
When they finally came round to me (not sure why I was left to the last although I suspect they plain forgot) they said there was no Japanese meal left. I had already realised that, and I couldn't be bothered saying or asking anything so I didn't, but I felt that the way they took the meal order left much to be desired.
I believe the crew members were unusually dud though. The route was leisure-heavy, and the crew members were not even up to 10% of the standard of the domestic F crew for instance. They seemed disorganised and well below the usual JL crew standards, so I suspect I had been forgotten (just like they forgot my drink order) and they came to ask me when they realised they forgot, rather than anything intentional. Still, I had never seen this kind of bad services from JL crew before so I was quite surprised.
The following wasn't the reason for sending the complaint, but I'd mention it while we are on the subject.
I have seen meal orders being taken in a seemingly odd order. I (OWE) was was in the 2nd row of business class and was skipped entirely, after they asked the couple in the first row. They took the order from those further down the back, then went back to the couple in the front row, whose choices they had already taken and accepted, and told them that there was no more Japanese meal left and they only had the western meal. The couple in front of me seemed a bit put out, as it was far too obvious that their choices were 'bumped' for someone else who asked for a Japanese meal after they did. That shouldn't have happened. I have no idea why those who were asked first were singled out for not giving them their choice of meal, either.
When they finally came round to me (not sure why I was left to the last although I suspect they plain forgot) they said there was no Japanese meal left. I had already realised that, and I couldn't be bothered saying or asking anything so I didn't, but I felt that the way they took the meal order left much to be desired.
I believe the crew members were unusually dud though. The route was leisure-heavy, and the crew members were not even up to 10% of the standard of the domestic F crew for instance. They seemed disorganised and well below the usual JL crew standards, so I suspect I had been forgotten (just like they forgot my drink order) and they came to ask me when they realised they forgot, rather than anything intentional. Still, I had never seen this kind of bad services from JL crew before so I was quite surprised.
Jul 23, 2012, 6:54 pm
#57
Ambassador: Japan Airlines
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Just a friendly reminder, JAL's reply is solely intended for the addressee only and we are kindly requested not to copy any part of their emails. Of course that is if you choose to respect and follow their request
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/information/service/
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/information/service/
Jul 23, 2012, 8:06 pm
#58
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,099
Just a friendly reminder, JAL's reply is solely intended for the addressee only and we are kindly requested not to copy any part of their emails. Of course that is if you choose to respect and follow their request
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/information/service/
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/information/service/
c) Even when our reply is demanded, we may not be able to respond if the subject is of abusive nature.
Jul 25, 2012, 10:02 am
#59
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,934
Just a friendly reminder, JAL's reply is solely intended for the addressee only and we are kindly requested not to copy any part of their emails. Of course that is if you choose to respect and follow their request
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/information/service/
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/information/service/
Unless otherwise there's no harm in disclosing what was written in the email.
Jul 25, 2012, 11:09 am
#60
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
The reply I received in essence said that the comment was referred to the catering department and they would consider the feedback for future catering revision.
Simmo, sorry, no exact wording. I am not into copying correspondences without the sender's prior agreement.