KLouis

A few ~OT thoughts:
- Was that "small" yacht allowed to moor where it was?
- Excellent job of the tugboat skippers and the harbour pilot!
- Amazing summer thunderstorm...
And one on topic:
- Scary, too say the least. They should get these monsters out of there asap!

Perche

Actually, the cruise ship was tugging the tugboat, which didn't have power to stop it.

Perche

VENEZIA - Ha dell'incredibile il dialogo tra il comando della grande nave Costa Deliziosa e la Capitaneria. Sotto la tempesta, da terra chiedono: avete bisogno di un quarto rimorchiatore? No grazie, rispondono dalla nave...
Per ben due volte dalla Capitaneria chiedono: mi confermate che non volete un quarto rimorchiatore? No grazie, non serve, confermano dalla nave. E poco dopo, invece, il gigante del mare spinto dal vento va fuori rotta, sfiora la riva, seminando il panico. E i tre rimorchiatori sembrano impazziti, riescono appena per un pelo a evitare l'impatto.

The dialog between the captain of the giant ship and tugboat was incredible. Because of the storm they asked if they need a fourth tugboat. The captain of the giant ship responded no. The tugboat asked again, please confirm that you don't need a fourth tugboat as you are being pushed by the wind of the storm. The captain was pleased confirm, you do not need a fourth tugboat. He responded, "no thank you, there is no need." A few minutes later the giant was pushed off course by the wind, brushed against the shore, spreading panic. The three tugboats went cray and avoided impact by a hair.

KLouis

Sorry, but there is something crucially wrong in the report of the Italian journalist and I firmly believe that the dialog reported was fake: The giant ship was not under the control of it's captain but the pilot's provided, by law, by the Porto di Venezia. If somebody screwed up (and somebody obviously did), it was the pilot (a public servant). At any rate, most probably, the gusts that were to blame were stronger than expected. Actually, rather than the pilot or the captain, the people at the Porto di Venezia should have waited with the permission to sail for 30 minutes or so, until this storm went by. They should have known better.

This is a good example why these boats should be moved out of the city centre. Accidents happen continuously and, unfortunately, the only way to prevent them fully is to eliminate the possibility of them happening (see for example the recent ban of the 737-Max). I am certain that the pilot was an extremely experienced professional doing this specific task once or twice daily for years and years, and he relied on super-duper electronics and info, but he was still not able to prevent the incident fully. In the last anaysis nothing happened, but eventually something will, which is why the huge boats should be banned.

My own boat is certaily much, much smaller and, by law, I am not obliged to use a pilot for it. Believe me, though, although I'm a relatively experienced boater (certainly much, much less so than these pros), I've often come close to extreme situations in which I or "somebody else" or even "nobody" would have been to blame for an accident that was finally averted...

Perche

I agree when these monsters enter the lagoon, they have to surrender control to Porto D'Venezia. It was Porto Di Venezia, which are officials on land, not the tugboat captains, who radioed the giant ship twice suggesting a fourth tugboat, which this captain refused, because the three tugboats were being dragged by the ship, not the other way around. The tugboats didn't have the power to manage these leviathans. They were powerless. They were powerless against the unpredictable forces of nature and the size of the ship.

If it had crashed into Piazza San Marco at the right angle it could have toppled the Campanile, the huge tower. These are disasters waiting to happen. 98% of Venetians don't want cruise ships or AirBnb by multiple surveys, but the ineffective indecisive government has only diddled around with solutions.

I agree with you, these things should be banned. I know two people who went to Venice. I asked them how? They said, "cruise ship." They didn't see a darn thing of Venice, only concluded they didn't like it.

From another paper, La Repubblica, July 8, 2019;
"Grandi navi, incidente sfiorato; il sindaco di Venezia attacca: la colpa � del ministro ToninelliGrandi navi, incidente sfiorato; il sindaco di Venezia attacca: la colpa � del ministro Toninelli. Un fermo immagine tratto da un video di Roberto Ferrucci su Youtube mostra la nave da crociera Costa Deliziosa, sulla riva Sette Martiri a Venezia, domenica 7 luglio (ansa)
"La responsabilit� � di chi non ha deciso in questi mesi, il tempo dell'attesa � finito". Replica il ministro delle Infrastrutture: "Brugnaro al solito straparla, vicini a soluzione"

"Giant ships, incident barely avoided; the mayor of Venice attacked and said it was the fault of the Interior Minister Toninelli. A still shot from the YouTube video of Roberto Ferucci, shows the giant ship the river/canal Sette Martiri in Venezia on July 7th. The responsibility rests with him who has not decided to make a decision this month, and the time for waiting is finished. The Minister responded, "Mayor Brugnaro just talks about being close to a solution.

To summarize this lengthy article, it goes on to say that, "Given that for at least an hour and a half the maritime forecast announced severe weather, the decision to allow the ship to leave the Maritime Port was an irresponsible decision. Venetian authorities are conduction an investigation to see who bears the responsibility. The Harbor Master and the pilots should have demanded the postponement of he departure for an hour. But there is n attitude of subjection to the giant ships and they are obsessed with keeping them happy by keeping the ships on time. After this episode we must consider drastic measures to close and control the passage through the Giudecca Canal and San Marco basin. Toninelli ordered a decisive decision in November 2017 and again in June 2019 to get these ships out of here, but all he does is keep ordering more postponements."

I'm afraid Venice will have a strong day of reckoning with some made made disaster if they don't have the political will to fix something that 98% of Venetians voted for.

Costa Concordia disaster off the coast of Tuscany a few years ago, shut down the area for several years. The Venetian lagoon is very shallow. I can see the seaweed growing on the floor underneath me when I am kayaking. They just have some dredged areas for big ships to get through. If one gets blown off course and hits a shallow area it's gonna tip over and could take years to right it and haul it out of the water right off of St. Marco Square.

Two warning shots over the bow in the last two months with giant ships crashing into Venice, each for different reasons. The first one developed an engine lock where the pilot could not slow the boat down, and the tugs couldn't slow it down because engines should be off. In this case, The Captain of the big ship was asked twice if he had control of his ship, and needed another tugboat. Probably from hubris, he twice said no. That's how planes crash, surgical errors, and other disasters happen. A series of small mistakes that add up from the harbor master allowing them to proceed despite the weather forecast, the tugboats reporting that they didn't have the power to alter the direction of the ship, the Port asking the Captain if he needed another tugboat, he said no, and a few minutes later crashed into Venice. It's usually not one thing.

KLouis

Although I agree in essence with Perche, and also the quoted article from La Repubblica basically repeats what I wrote previously, let me explain it once more: these monsters, while in the port of Venice (i.e. as long as they're in the laguna) are under the full control of the pilot, provided by the Porto di Venezia, and the ship's captain has to abide by his/her (the pilot's) decisions for everything. So the pilot iss to blame if not enough tugs were there, as is the Port's Master for allowing the ship tho sail. I'm not defending the cruise lines, I'm just stating the international rules that are valid all over the world. Personally, I've been impressed to see how the head pilot gives orders (depending on where the ship is, there may be more than one in the bridge) on course, speed, tugboat behaviour, etc., the captain repeats them and nobody else opens his mouth to say anything as long as the ships manover under the pilot's commands. I'll check the net for a video and post it if I find a good one.

gonebabygone

KLouis

Too optimistic and wrongly so! Firstly, things don't happen that fast in Italy: there will be court proceedings, etc, and the ban may not be fully in place that "fast". Secondly, tourists will still be coming. The monsters will be moved to different docking places without the need to go through the city, and the hordes of tourists will be brought/shipped to Venice using additional means. Don't forget that fewer tourists mean less income for all store owners and the people who live off tourism.

gonebabygone

That's an excellent point. But I was under the impression (from a previous post, I believe) that the typical cruise ship passenger spends a tiny sum of money during their visit to Venice (since their meals are covered on the ship) and so the impact on locals would be minimal.

obscure2k

The monster cruise ships are more likely to be around in the late spring and summer months. In October they are doing transatlantic repositioning cruises. I doubt you will see thousands of cruises pax spilling on to shore. Enjoy your time exploring the "Queen of the Adriatic." Weather is generally beautiful and you are there in time for white truffle season.

gonebabygone

Oh wonderful that's great news! I assumed cruise ships docked practically year round in Venice.

Thanks also for the tip about white truffles, I had never heard of them before but I'm off to do some research

AA100k

gonebabygone

I'm curious, given that you used to live there: what else would you propose to help revive Venice?

KLouis

I don't want to sound too pessimistic, but since decades the population of Venice's centro storico (what's in the lagoon, not the parts on the continent) have been decreasing; interestingly, the commune as a whole has a rather steady, if not increasing population. This is due many many different factors, among which the tourism overkill is one. There have been many ideas proposed by many people how to address the issue, by both experts and dilettantes, and no change is so far in sight. The banning of the big cruise liners is a good idea, but will it help? Only time will show. I fully understand AA100's nostalgia, I have similar feelings when I think of my own home town (present pop.: >4 millions; pop when I was born: ~800K ). S..t, that's unfortunately the way it goes...

gonebabygone

Thanks for your perspective as well.

Forgive my ignorance, but what does the commune refer to?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, what is your home town? (Feel free not to mention if you'd prefer.)