TominLazybrook

I'm currently in Florence. We're staying a few miles outside the center. Last night, rather than waiting on the bus, we attempted to take a taxi back to our hotel. We were near the train station. We saw 250+ people in line at the taxi line in the train station and no cabs pulling up. Easily an hour in that line. We then decided to walk over to other taxi lines in central Florence. Every taxi queue had dozens of cabs, every single one was filled with cabs parked with no drivers visible. No cabs were pulling in those queues. Ended up just taking the bus. Was there a strike or were the cabs simply all waiting on boutique fares from the fashion show. Or is there something special that we need to do to get a taxi in florence?

Perche

It's a strike against Uber again. And it's not only in Florence, it's also happening in Rome. These strikes are going to keep happening until Uber drivers have to have a drivers license, insurance, register their vehicles, undergo background checks, and have to play by the same rules that all other taxi drivers have to do.
http://www.controradio.it/taxi-firen...-auto-bianche/

TominLazybrook

Uber doesn't operate in Florence. So the cab drivers are just proving the point that Uber is vital

People in town are saying that the strike is on Friday...and the taxis are just doing what they always do when there's lots of demand.....refusing to serve the public and going for boutique fares. I passed 8 taxicab ranks in Florence today. I saw a grand total of ZERO cabs available.

Perche

Uber has operated in Florence, they just aren't doing it now because of their legal problems.

I'm not so sure how vital they are when they lost $2.8 billion last year and in the eight years they have been in existence they have never come close to making a profit. They've already lost $708 million in the first quarter of this year, not including the $3 billion they lost by getting out of China after losing $1 billion a year there.

People thought Uber might be like Amazon, a company that initially lost money before becoming profitable, but the financial journals say, "Amazon was a piker compared to how unprofitable Uber is." Each year Uber only stays afloat by getting new investment capital, which is why some consider it a Ponzi scheme. According to Bloomberg Reports, "Uber can't stop losing money."

It has been in the news every day this week in multiple articles because it is under criminal, trade-theft, and sexual harassment investigations, and its top 20 leadership from the CEO on down have been fired or forced to step down after an independent investigation by the former Attorney General found it to have such a corrupt corporate culture that it would have to be dismantled by legal action unless they made radical changes.

A few of the many headlines just this week:
"The perils of continuing to use Uber." (NY Times).
"One way to fix Uber: Think twice before using it." (NY Times)
"Uber snarling the streets" (SF Chronicle, because the drivers usually have no idea where they are going)
"Uber served with subpoena demanding release of drivers names and addresses." ( SF Chronicle, so that they have to pay taxes just like taxi drivers)
"SF to Uber: Provide driver info - it's the law." (SF Chronicle)

In Rome after going to school for about a year and passing a test to prove sufficient knowledge of how to efficiently get around the warren of one way streets, taxi drivers pay about $150,000 to 200,000, the price of a small apartment, to get licensed. They pay it off over years like a mortgage. When they retire they sell their license, or pass it on to a child. To drive for Uber in Italy you only had to fill out an online form and rent a car for the week. The car must be inspected, but any other Uber driver could inspect it. You didn't need to speak Italian, English, German, or have any knowledge of the city.

The only background check was a requirement that you send in a photo of yourself, your vehicle, your driver's license, and your insurance card. No investigation was carried out by any governmental agency, you were not fingerprinted, and nobody from the company met the driver before allowing them to start picking up fares. This is a far cry from the professionalism of a Roman taxi or limo driver.

The EU recently ruled against Uber, saying it is a transportation company, and rejected their claim that they are just a website. They must start obeying EU public transportation regulations, which they do not follow now. As this judgment becomes actionable it is bound to have a significant effect, even though Uber is already banned or strictly limited in Denmark, Belgium, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, the UK, India, China, Taiwan, and certain cities in the USA. In most cases Uber is only allowed to continue to operate in those countries under unique restrictions tailored to the economies and traditions of that country.

I believe the type of Uber experience most are familiar with in the USA is already illegal in Italy. They called it Uber Pop (Uber X in the USA), which allowed Uber to hire drivers without a commercial license. Now, my understanding is that only Uber Black, their luxury line, is still legal in Italy. That requires a private limo driver licensed by the NCC, or Noleggio Con Conducente, which licenses and strictly oversees limo drivers. Many limo drivers have signed up with Uber Black to increase their customer base, but since Uber takes a 20% cut they charge significantly more than a regular taxi, or what they charge when you hire them in the regular way. In Rome a taxi driver charges a flat fee of 48 euros for a ride to or from FCO. A limo driver will usually charge about 45-46 euros. Uber Black charges 60 euros.

On May 4th, 2017 the FBI began a criminal investigation of Uber for failing to obey USA regulations http://fortune.com/2017/05/04/uber-f...investigation/

One month ago, "Uber faces criminal probe over software used to evade authorities." That was in the USA. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ub...-idUSKBN1802U1

https://www.nytimes.com/video/techno...-player-region

Until they clean up their act, I prefer professional Roman taxi drivers, or a standard car service.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/w...rome-taxi.html

ckendall

There is a general transport strike Friday: http://www.controradio.it/domani-sci...voratori-ataf/

The last Firenze anti uber taxi strike was earlier this year (Feb and March as far as I can tell). The article noted in this thread related to a strike in Jan 2016 that was a follow-on to the Parisian uber strike then. (Note that Uber is back in Paris and worked quite well when I was there last month)

Perche

As you said, the stated purpose of the strike was to show sympathy with the Paris anti-Uber strike of January 2016. This anti-Uber strike was predicated on the world-wide problems Uber has recently been having regarding its lack of corporate ethics.

Headline of the January 2016 Parisian strike; "French taxi drivers clash with police in anti-Uber strike."
https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/26/1...rike-paris-vtc

As a result of the recent investigation of Uber in the USA they currently do not have a COO, CFO, CMO, President, or even a CEO. All were fired over corporate ethics, and the fact that it loses more money than pretty much any company in the USA, except for some gigantic energy companies that speculate about energy futures.

PWMTrav

We get it, you don't like Uber. Independent of the company itself, though, the service is clearly valuable to a lot of people or Uber wouldn't be causing the problems in the industry that it does. Yes, it makes a dent in entrenched interests, but there's clearly a problem that Uber is addressing in the market or they wouldn't have the passenger numbers that they do. Even if you don't like Uber, something needs to change, and that change isn't limited to simply banning Uber and similar services.

Perche

Its not me not liking Uber. If you read the newspapers, Attorneys Generals around the USA, and their equivalents around the world, have concluded that it's breaking rules and laws around the world. And so they are getting progressively handcuffed. I'm just reporting the news.

The reason why you can't get Uber in Florence right now is not because they are not operating there. Uber is 100% operable in Florence. Italy banned Uber Pop, known as UberX in the USA, which is the regular Uber service, as we know it in the USA. Florence, Milan, Rome, and finally the whole country made Uber Pop illegal because there was no requirement for the drivers to have a license, no required background check, no fingerprinting, or anything else. Anybody could represent themselves to you as a driver. Would you let someone who knocks on your door and represents themselves as a builder come in an remodel your home, without a license?

I didn't decide that I don't like Uber. I was just reporting Italian news, but even that news is now widespread here after the Attorney General's report, and after the EU court in Luxembourg ruled that Uber misrepresented itself as a website consisting of locals who have a car who want to share a ride with you, like a car pool in the USA. Instead of five parents taking their kids to school in five separate cars, you car pool. The EU, and countries around the world decided that was a fraudulent misrepresentation, and that Uber is a taxi company that uses drivers who don't have a license.

In Florence, when Italy banned Uber Pop, aka UberX, the courts ruled that Uber can operate in Italy, but only if it uses drivers with a license. To get a commercial drivers license in Italy you have to go through NCC, which requires a background check, fingerprinting, etc. The guy next door can't just decide to download the Uber app and become a taxi driver overnight, but that is what Uber did. You could have been a Uber driver with multiple previous DUI arrests who just got out of jail, and still be a driver for them.

Uber does operate in Florence right now, it is just that there is nobody qualified to do it. There are no licensed Uber drivers. If you go to their app you will be forced into choosing Uber Black, because Uber Pop (UberX) is banned in the whole county. Uber Black is a limo service with NCC licensed commercial drivers. When you do that you will always get the same response: "Currently, there are no Uber Black Drivers available," because no one who has a commercial drivers license in Florence wants to drive for Uber, as they already have their own limo service, and if they take an Uber ride, Uber takes a 20% cut.

Florence had Uber until it recognized that it was a form of public transportation that wasn't requiring drivers to be licensed, just like the person who fixes the roof of your house must have a license to do so. You can't hire the guy next door to hang a roof. It must be a licensed contractor, and go through inspection. Just like a taxi driver in Italy must have a license, a year of schooling, and pass a test.

Uber is operable in Florence at this time. It just doesn't have any licensed, background checked drivers at the moment, and that is why the app always says, "no driver available." It doesn't say, "we are not in Florence yet."

If someone who is licensed shows up in Florence tomorrow they would be free to pick up a fare, it's just that licensed driver are not rushing to sign up because the future of Uber is uncertain, and Uber is very unpopular over there.

I disagree with the statement, "We get it, you don't like Uber." You can't pick up a newspaper in the USA without it having at least a few stories a day about Uber's criminal, sexual harassment, cultural, and management problems, and the fact that it always loses billions of dollars per year. I'm not expressing my opinion: I'm just reporting the news. It's up to each individual if they want to support Uber, without them documenting that they've made legal and ethical changes in how they operate. I try to support things that fit my values. If you read the report from the Attorney General Holder that was released two days ago, you would need a shower after patronizing Uber. It may be that since they recently fired the whole management team, including the founder, they are salvageable, because the concept itself is good. Maybe the new managers will be experienced enough to know that it is wise to respect the laws and customs of the countries they want to operate in.

Berlin just banned all Uber, outright. Berlin and Florence are much opposite places politically, with Berlin being very liberal, and Florence being very conservative, yet they are both in synch on this.

I'm not trying to judge, I'm just trying to put news out there that some may not see, because I read the Italian newspapers. You get a completely different perspective than what you get over here. I just quoted a series of headlines, none favorable about Uber lately.

TominLazybrook

I'm back now. Here's what the real story was

There was a strike in Florence (buses) on that Friday.

But there was never a taxi strike. The problem was and is that there are only two cab companies in Florence, and they aren't behaving properly. There was a concert in town and a big fashion show. So the taxicab drivers from both companies would take their cabs and park them (leaving them empty) while awaiting special fares from the Pitti fashion show attendees.

At no time during my stay in Florence was there a taxi strike. Even our hotel couldn't get the cabs to operate without a LOT of difficulty. This wasn't even a case of being overcharged. We had trouble finding a cab at ANY price. And the locals were having trouble with it too.

We did find that the cabs in Rome did largely behave...although 1 out of 3 took an unorthodox route.

I'd gladly take a taxi if they're operating and operating fairly. In Florence, neither was the case.

I really don't care about the politics of Uber vs non-Uber. But if the taxicabs engage in egregiously bad behavior, which was definitely the case in Florence that week, then Uber is vital.

By the way, I'm not a huge fan of Uber either. But they are better than the alternative...which is cab drivers not serving the public and ripping people off.

Also note that many locals don't take local cabs, so they rarely see the problems that tourists face. And it did significantly negatively impact our stay in Florence. We didn't go for that big night out in town, because we were afraid (correctly - as per other guests in our hotel) that we wouldn't be able to get back unless we walked 4 miles back to the hotel.

I fail to see how Uber is worse than some sort of cartel/duopoly by the cabdrivers. At least with Uber operating, the cabs behave much better.

Perche

I agree somewhat. The buses went on strike, and when that happens, other public transportation forms often strike or at least slow way down in solidarity. And Uber is not the solution. When there were massive demonstrations after the first travel ban of the current USA administration, many taxi cabs went on strike, especially at the major NYC airports. Uber drivers were told to cross picket lines and head to the airport and charge "surge," or extra pricing for cabs. That was another key to Uber''s current downfall, with hundreds of thousands of people going with the "Delete Uber" movement. Uber is not going to solve the problems with taxis in Florence. They are not even able to operate since the Florence government started requiring background checks, a license, insurance, etc. Taxis are not going to provide normal service when other public transportation sectors are on strike. Not to pick up higher fares from a fashion show, but out of solidarity.

TominLazybrook

Again, the strike was on FRIDAY. The bad taxi behavior was on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday....BEFORE the strike happened. This had nothing to do with the bus strike. We used the bus to get around because the cabs weren't. There was no statement of solidarity sent out.

The cabs were all in their cab ranks, parked with no driver inside, where they would wait, empty, until someone from the Pitti called them. The Pitti ended on Thursday...and guess what....you could get a cab on Friday with some difficulty during the strike.

Basically, the two cab companies just rented out all of their cabs to the fashion show. So that they could make more money. And strand thousands of people in Florence that week.

If Uber was operating in Florence that week, they'd be surging the hell out of fares. And guess what? That would have been better because at least someone could actually get a cab.

People waited three hours for a cab in the 100 degree heat at Florence's train station during the fashion show, while 200 cabs stood empty in taxi ranks within a mile radius. They weren't protesting anything. Don't kid yourself. They were waiting on non-metered fares coming from the Pitti.

Its pretty clear, Uber may be a jerk, but so are the cab companies. At least if Uber is operating....people can actually get around. If the cab drivers were trying to protest Uber, a company that doesn't even operate in Florence by the way, by doing what they did, its incredibly counterproductive.

Perche

I really don't think this is the case. Disgruntled people may blame the taxis, but the taxis of the city did not all abandon their vehicle to wait to take people from the Fashion show off the meter at a higher price.

Yes, there was a transportation disaster covered by the news media, but nobody said that was the cause. Two months ago I arrived to NYC Penn Station, 1.5 hours early for a meeting on 96th and 5th. Maybe three miles. One would think that as in Rome Termini, there would be lines and lines of taxis. There were none. I walked 8 blocks to Times Square and waited 20 minutes trying to hail a taxi along with seemingly 50 other people. No taxis. Walked 12 blocks to the next major area, 59th street and Central Park South. No taxis. Offered a bellman $10 to get me one. He couldn't.

Showed up 45 minutes late after walking about 40 blocks before I could find a taxi. This was not a special occasion. It was just average. Try getting a tax in NYC when it's raining.

Uber is not going to be the solution in Italy because now that position of the EU is that they must have a license, insurance, a professionally inspected car, and must operate according to the same rules as every other person entrusted to drive a stranger. They are no longer considered a website. They are considered a transportation company.

By law they can no longer say, "whether the driver is a criminal, has a safe car, and insurance, is not our business. We are just a website the links people together, like Match.com. We have nothing to do with what happens to you on your date or travel. Uber is now regulated, so they are dropping out, and that's why they are not active in Florence. .

The real reason why there were no taxis was well covered by the news. http://www.firenzetoday.it/cronaca/t...-traffico.html I can't translate it all because of copyright, but I can provide a few excerpts.

"We told them months ago, we are not London, we don't have a Metro, there was a Radiohead concert, the Pitti International Fasion Show, and the semi-final soccer play-offs. We deployed many extra cabs, but 83% of our drivers reported themselves as stuck in immovable traffic because of all of the events, plus the massive influx of June tourists. We warned them months ago. We put one hundred extra taxi drivers out there, and all that happened was that they were stuck in traffic and couldn't get to their car. And don't propose Uber as a solution. They only have 30 drivers in all of Florence who have a license, a car that passes inspection, and insurance."

That's a quick and admittedly rushed translation of the news, but Florence was just so darn crowded that it hit its usual summer gridlock. Taxi drivers couldn't even get to the city center where they parked 100 extra cars, and asked drivers from the suburbs, who can't afford to live in the city center, to drive the extra cars, but none of the drivers could get to them. Florence was in its usual Summer gridlock state.

Florence and Venice are gridlocked in the summer. There are plenty of ways around it in Venice.

PWMTrav

Florence does get gridlocked in the summer. The historic center really isn't designed for vehicle and pedestrian traffic with any kind of volume - and the city has chosen to prioritize pedestrians. That said, it wouldn't shock me even a little if the cab companies did contract out a bunch of capacity to a convention. Pitti Uomo usually has transportation arranged, though - shuttle busses and such. The fact that taxis became easy to get when the convention was over isn't necessarily evidence that taxis weren't taking public fares, though - if traffic is the issue, the traffic itself also ends with the convention. The truth is probably somewhere in between, though.

Uber would help Florence a bit, primarily for folks staying outside of the inner ZTL, but anything inside would be an issue absent a taxi license (or a personal residence permit). You'd still have to walk up near the train station, past l'Accademia or down toward Porta Romana outside the ZTL to grab it, though. Ironically, Uber would have been of most help to the area around Pitti Uomo, which is just outside of the ZTL at Fortezza da Basso.

The traffic up by SMN sucks, too. You could very well get in a cab out front and sit there trying to leave the station on a normal day. I'm not trying to blame the tourists for staying in the wrong place because it's really hard to know this unless someone tells you in advance, but during the summer months, you really do need to stay in walking distance of the things you want to do.

Perche

Just for the record, I extensively edited my last post. The constant bashing of taxi drivers is generally the result of people not understanding the situation. The taxi companies predicted in advance that "We are not London," and we don't have a subway, and we can't have 3 major events without gridlock happening."

Blame mass tourism or any other factor, but don't blame the taxi drivers who wanted to get to work and pick up the hundred extra taxis the city provided, who couldn't get to their jobs because the highways were gridlocked, and who you said were waiting empty, for higher priced, off the meter fares. That didn't happen.

I'm heading to Rome on Saturday. I can avoid the gridlock. But if it is really bad, I'm heading to Abruzzo or Le Marche. Flying out of Venice back to the USA July 28. I never go in the summer, but if you go in June, July, or August, don't blame the taxi cab drivers for what happens.

Perche

You say there were a bunch of empty taxis, with no drivers sitting in the cabs, hoping to take Pitti Fashion show participants home, off meter, for a higher price.

Not so. Everything points to Florence bringing in 100 extra taxis to deal with 3 major events at the same time, and those taxis weren't empty because the drivers were looking to take people "off of the books."

Florence brought in 100 extra taxis for all of the events, and the drivers, virtually all of who live in the outskirts, were so gridlocked in mass summer tourism traffic that they couldn't get into the city to drive them.

The continued bashing of taxi drivers, most of whom are very professional, seems way out of line, especially when Florence doesn't have Uber because it is estimated that there are only about 30 people in Florence who are currently driving there with a valid license, a state inspected car, and who have passed a criminal background check.