I am taking the first steps to plan a trip with my family and another family to either France or Italy this summer (posting in the France forum, too). There will be 4 parents and 7 "kids" ages 13 to 21. We have all been to Italy before so the point is to be together in one of our favorite European countries, enjoy the culture and eat and drink. Our priorities are good food and local flavor in the form of sights, cafes, events, shops. We like to stay in one place and explore nearby as opposed to hotel hopping. Husband and I are planning to travel for one week with our brood first and then join the other family for week 2.

I am looking for suggestions of where we might create a home-base for week 2. We are hemmed into the second or third week of July so weather is an issue. I am from the deep south where we get more than our share of heat and would prefer more moderate weather. I spent a week on Lake Como (Varenna) once in July and we called it our "Streetcar Named Desire" holiday-no air-conditioning and crowded, hot beaches so a mandatory cool shower every afternoon was our primary relief-would prefer to not repeat that experience. We are looking for a town or village so that we can access a few restaurants and cafes by walking, although we will have a couple of cars. Are there some charming towns in the Dolomites? Other suggestions for more moderate climate with culture and good food?

Double posting is not appreciated

Not trying to double post but to get advice on appropriate areas in France (question about the Alps) and Italy (Dolomites). We are trying to decide on which is best suited for our needs which don't really vary from country to country.

My assumption is that there might be flyertalkers who have experience in France or Italy but not both, hence the posting in both forums which I mentioned in each post.

I can't tell you much about France, but maybe Italy. First thing, though, what do you consider heat?

I'm sweating when it's 70 here in Maine, but in Florida they might wear a jacket.

Maine summer weather is among my favorites and we would be thrilled with that in Europe. I am hoping for highs below the mid 80's and evenings in the 60's.

I appreciate your thoughts.

Then you can pretty much forget about most parts in France and Italy and only heading into mountainous regions will be a solution. Unless it's particularly wet and/or cold, July, temperatures are likely going to exceed 80�F in most parts of France and Italy.

There aren't a lot of places in Italy with cool summers, but if you're looking for that and relatively lighter crowds, look in the Apennines. Somewhere between Campobasso and Amatrice, really. Although with their recent earthquakes, Amatrice, L'Aquila and such might not be ready for tourists just yet. But that general area will give you the weather and crowds that you want, but you'll have to decide if that area has things you'd like to do.

I can't think of much else that stays around 75 in the summer. Google tells me that some places up in the Alps, Aosta being one that at least appears to be in the same climate zone.

First, this is an extremely broad question, because you are asking where to go with the whole country as a possibility, rather than coming up with a few regions where you might hope people can provide some guidance.

If you think that Varenna is hot and crowded, then there not much of a chance you'll be happy. They are at decent elevation, and the average high in July is 76-77, and low is 65-66. People are quite comfortable in a t shirt and shorts. And since you are on the lake, if you get hot, just jump in. It's a small town, with only a few hotels, so it doesn't get that crowded. If you rented a room without an air conditioner, that's not their fault, it's your fault. Pretty much every where in the world, if you rent a room in the summer without air conditioning your going to toss and turn all night from the heat. That's not Varenna, it's choice of accommodation.

Anyway, just by going north doesn't alway help because elevation has a lot to do with it. Milan is pretty far north, but is a sweat box in the summer. I had friends who live in Cuba visit me there, and they couldn't take the heat.

Going up in the Appenines it will be cooler, but pretty rural. The villages in the mid-Annenines are largely destroyed.

Italy is hot in the summer, and there's no way around it. This is why in August most of the country shuts down. Most of the population goes to the beach or to the mountains, and may you should consider that. In June, find a nice beach where you'll have a breeze at night. Positano comes to mind. Typical high of 80, low of 65 in June. Crowds not overpowering yet. Plenty of thing to do, hike, visit the other towns, boat, kayak, visit Capri and the other islands.

Even if you go up north to the Dolomite to Bolzano, Trentino Alto Adigo where there are winter ski resorts, it's going to be 80F in the day. Only the people still consider themselves german, and you will be eating strudel, not pasta.

On the west, Val d'Aosta is pretty small towns, without a lot to do. The capital is just a small town square. It's very wonderful, but not much to do. You'd have to drive down to Torino - where it is hot.

Piedmont comes from piede, which means foot, and mountain. Piedmonte means foot of the mountain, referring to the alps. It borders France and Switzerland.

It's the wine capital of Italy, and arguably the food capital as well. It's relatively undiscovered, unlike Tuscany which has become so americanized and touristy that all you hear spoken in the streets is english, even by the storekeepers and waitstaff. It's pretty unusual to hear italian spoken in Tuscany anymore. Even the road signs are in english.

Piedmont hasn't been ruined yet. It is usually in the mid 70's, but can get up to the low 80's. This is the wine capital of Italy, and you have quaint towns and festivals. There are many festivals in June, July and August, and white truffle festivals in the fall. Torino, the capital, and 4th largest city in Italy, is hot. But it's not crowded in June. It's the only large italian city not spoiled by Tourism. from Torino you can even take the train down to Italy and spend a day on the beach, then go to a festival on the border of France. You can even combine with your French trip, as the Cote d'Azur and Rhone in France, and Ticino and Valais border it on Switzerland.

Overall, you're going to have to narrow it down yourself. Italy is too large a country to narrow down a single recommendation for you. Make some proposals. You're going to have to realistically deal with the fact that it's hot in Italy in the summer, no matter where you go. And it's crowded. Italy has 2.5 times the population density of China, and six times the population density of the USA. Add in that it's the fifth most popular tourist destination, bringing 50,000,000 people in on top of the 60,000,000 residents, expect heat and crowds, unless you want to go camping, or to really out of the way places.

Make choices like not staying in hotels without air conditioning, etc.

I may have given the wrong impression- I would not expect temps under 80 in the daytime but meant that I would like to avoid averages above the mid-80s. Even so, I understand that may not be realistic in the summer and that there is no predicting the weather. We absolutely adored Varenna-a lovely small village and not overrun with tourists-and would go back at a different time of year. Yes, Perche, we booked a flat without air conditioning and were there during a heat wave-lesson learned. Daytime temps were in the 90s for the whole week. The difficulty for us was that the shops, trattorias and outdoor sights were unbearable after about 1pm-even the beach was scorching so it was a challenge to get relief. Working to plan better this time.

We are from New Orleans so I get the heat thing and try to avoid the worst of it. Unfortunately, we are hemmed into travel in July this time. Looking for something cooler and it may be that there is not anything that works for us in Italy but I thought that asking the broad question might elicit some ideas. We are assuming that the south will be hot and also the cities.

I appreciate the the helpful ideas and descriptions of various areas. Thank you for taking the time. Good to confirm that the Dolomites have a German flavor-I was gravitating to mountains for weather but am not sure we would like that as much as we love other parts of Italy. It sounds like I should check out the Piedmonte region as we love food and wine and appreciate local culture. Perhaps I should explore (online) some of the mid-size villages there. We don't need a city but would love a small town with a weekly market and a few trattorias/ristorantes. Perhaps the Appenines as well.

Thanks again for the tips.

As you know, you can't predict the weather. Maybe you hit an unseasonable spell. I've been in Southern Puglia for a week where it's freezing, snow, ice, schools closed the last time this happened was 20 years ago. Now I'm in the middle of Basilicata where it's always supposed to be warm, but the temperature is 0 today. Next, I'm heading to Naples, where it is also barely above zero, and dusted with snow. Most places down here don't have the heaters for it. You make do. It's not home. By being at Lake Como, you had it way better than most if there was a heat wave. Any crowds were probably Milanese desperate to escape the heat and get to much cooler Varenna, Mennagio, etc.

Even if you go up to the Dolomite mountains and stay in Bolzano, which every year for years and years wins first place as the best city in Italy, despite the mountain location the high is in the low 80's but can be higher on any given day.

Remembering, that region, Trentino Alto Adige was taken as a war prize from Germany after World War 1. Students from there come to Venice to learn Italian because they still speak a lot of German. They even refuse to say they live in Trentino Alto Adige. They all sY they are from South Tyrollean Mountains, or Sud Tirol. You can stay cooler but not cool there.

I mentioned Piedmont because you said the trip would include France. Piedmont, like Sud Tirol, is a mountainous place. In fact, the 2004 Winter Olympics where held there. In the summer it's cooler than most. You don't have to go all the way over to Germany. They have great towns, the best wineries, the best food, some of the best scenery, and non-touristy prices. You can always spend a day in Torino, the fourth largest city that unlike Rome, Milan, and Naples, is purely Italian, untouched by tourism.

A couple of years ago when I was working in Torino I told another professor that there is no tourism in Torino. She told me, "You better not let the Mayor here you say that because it's what he's been struggling to make happen for years."

Whereas Austria is right over the Dolomites from Trentino, France is right over the Alps from Piemonte.

Just forget about heat waves. They're like terrorism and tornadoes. In 2013 over 15,000 people died of the heat wave in France. People in Switzerland and Germany were dying of heat. The French morgue didn't have enough places to put people. Most of these people lived where there was no air conditioning, or else it wouldn't have happened.

Italy was more or less spared, because it has frequent rain showers in most parts. People around Lake Como, or anywhere in the Lake Country are blessed. They just get in the Lake.

I personally, have a hard time in New Orleans because of the humidity. I'm always sticky and wet, like the people in Milan. Not at Lake Como. I think it's a matter of expectations. You don't go to Italy, or Europe for that matter to cool off.

You also always need air conditioning because of the curse left to Italy for all its fine weather: mosquitoes are almost everywhere, most parts of the year north, south, east, west, except in late fall, winter, early spring.

You are so right, Perche, about the air conditioning. I would not consider doing without it at home so I don't know why I had to learn that the hard way in Italy. I also agree that it's best just to go with the weather. I am fortunate to have travelled to different parts of Italy a few times before so it's time to just enjoy the country and the people, whatever the weather.
I am excited to learn about Piedmont and will be doing some research. If you are willing to share any suggestions on specific villages, please send me a pm.

Why a PM? Please post your advice openly! I'm sure I'm not the only one who is learning a lot from this and similar threads.

It's obvious if you read the thread's subject. OP not only wants to avoid the heat but also the crowds!