JBD

Since a lot of these posts concern rentals in general, thought I should point out that there's a new forum where Airbnb, Homeaway, etc, are being discussed:

Non-hotel Lodging Services including Airbnb and VRBO ...

Perche

Finally, regulations are going into effect. When AirBnb and similar companies don't take their responsibilities to the community seriously, the government will act. Two additional cities in Europe have cracked down, and AirBnb is agreeing to cooperate.. It was the lead story on CBS last night. Hopefully Italian cities will get in on the act.
http://staging.hosted.ap.org/dynamic...12-01-17-30-04

Perche

There is a group in Venice called "Risveglia," or "Re-awake." They work with similar groups such as "Reset Venice" that helped with a referendum that overwhelmingly voted to ban large cruise ships, only to have the courts overrule the vote.

While work still goes on to limit cruise ships, articles against AirBnb and similar short term rental sites continue to mount. The hope is to bring them under control in Venice just like NYC, Barcelona, Berlin, and many other cities have done. AirBnb even recently dropped its lawsuit against the city of San Francisco, where their headquarters is located, and agreed to be put under control because it was about to lose its appeal in federal court.

A recent headline that caught my attention covered the huge demonstration against AirBnb in Venice over the weekend http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/m...awekening.html. "Re-Awake" posted large black and white photos around the city that depict the Venice that the people want to live in, but that show what has been happening instead that is resulting in depopulation of the city.

An excerpt of the article is; "To find an apartment today in Venice is impossible. Residents are being forced to move to the mainland, fleeing because apartments are too expensive. The city has lost half of its population and is down to just over 50,000 residents, while 25 million tourists visit it every year."

And then:
Dito puntato contro i portali online di affitti "brevi". "Esemplare quanto drammatica la situazione degli immobili veneziani in AirBnb, portale online nato allo scopo di mettere in contatto persone in cerca di un alloggio o di una camera per brevi periodi, con persone che dispongono di uno spazio extra da affittare, ma nel quale compaiono più di 5500 appartamenti, di cui il 76% in affitto per tutto l'anno e 80% non per una stanza o un posto letto, come dovrebbe essere lo spirito di AirbNb, ma per l'intero immobile. Si tratta di vere azioni commerciali e non di singoli che cercano di integrare part time il loro reddito: vi sono gruppi che posseggono più di 50 appartamenti on line sul sito.

"The finger is pointed against online portals for short-term rentals. An example is how dramatic the situation is with AirBnb, a company that started with a limited scope of getting people who seek a room to stay in for a short period, with someone who has extra space to rent. Now, there are more than 5,500 AirBnb apartments that are rented out 75% of the time, and 80% are not just a bedroom or place to stay in the original spirit of AirBnb, instead the entire apartment is rented out. This is a commercial activity, not a single person trying to supplement their income: there are conglomerates that rent out more than 50 apartments on AirBnb."

Each apartment brings in a profit of about 40,000 euros per year. In the article in Il Gazzetino, the main newspaper for the Veneto, "Non solo accoglievano ospiti, per la maggior parte turisti, senza mai aver presentato le richieste e la documentazione per poterlo fare, ma nemmeno li registravano e ne denunciavano la presenza."

"Not only do they rent out the apartments to mostly tourists and have never presented any documents requesting a permit to do so, they even deny that they are renting the apartment out." This means that they are not only evading safety codes but they are also collecting "taxes" from the renters, and then pocketing that money.

Groups such as Awake, Reset, and others keep lobbying for an overall comprehensive plan to save and restore Venice, and their primary targets are short term rental and large cruise ships that are considered to be the most destructive forces. It seems that their voices are increasingly being heard.

PWMTrav

A comprehensive plan has to include a way to generate employment in Venice, not just turn away tourists and shut down short term rentals. Venice's economy is primarily based in tourism, so you need some other sectors to emerge if you want people to live and work there. The rent problem is only part of it - younger people wouldn't stay even if they could afford it, since there isn't anything for the young, college-educated people to do. The question then becomes what, besides tourism, can you do in Venice that competitively isn't more efficient to do elsewhere? And on the flipside, what, besides tourism, are Venetian residents qualified and able to do? Whatever the common answers are to those are how you can diversify Venice's economy.

There aren't easy answers. Education is one potential sector, and Ca' Foscari is a world class university. The trouble is, it's world class in a bunch of things that would not necessarily incentivize graduates to stay in Venice - economics, finance, language, history. Only history would be a driver, but it's also not exactly a lucrative field. Maybe investing in engineering and computer science is one avenue. Venice needs engineers, and tech tends to cluster around strong (tech) educational programs, provided the infrastructure also exists.

rickg523

So I'm watching PBS last night and the show is sponsored by some cruise company and the clip they use is a freaking gigantic boat cruising along the Guidecca.
I thought this was stopped. In 2012, they weren't just cruising on Venice's Main Street, the cruise ships actually blared Andrea Bocelli over their public address systems! It was the most utterly crass thing I encountered in Europe that year. I hated that even more than the thousands of day trippers the boats disgorge onto poor Venice (possibly the least appropriate city on earth to be overcrowded) each day. The ultimate irony is I've spoken to many folks who visited Venice on a cruise. They HATE it...just a tourist trap full of jimcrack overpriced junk. And bad pizza. They think I'm nuts for loving the place. Obviously, I think they're morons who should have their passports revoked.
Last time I was there, 2014, and was told Venice had banned the big boats from the Guidecca. I think Perche also has brought up the detrimental environmental and tidal effects of these things. Have they let them back? Or is this cruise company just selling something they can't deliver? I'm back in June and wonder what to expect ( yes, I saw that article Perche posted..and I'm a bit concerned, even though I pretty much avoid San Marco/Rialto during the day).

Perche

I see it a bit differently. There is no reason why tourism shouldn't be the main industry and source of employment in Venice. When you are consistently ranked the #1 most beautiful city in the world, there will be tourism. (http://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/...in-the-world/1
http://www.themeshnews.com/top-10-mo...ld-2016/<br /> http://topxbestlist.com/most-beautiful-cities/ https://lifestyle9.org/top-10-beautiful-cities-world/

Venice welcomes tourists. However, it has disdain for invasive, destructive tourism. The First three pictures below are people disgorged from cruise ships. I don't know why people would want to be there and visit Venice that way, but I assure you they aren't helping the economy, they are costing the city money. The docking and port fees from cruise ships all goes to Rome. Then, Rome sends some small amount back, and it is not even enough to pick up the trash, or to restore the wear and tear that these people cause. These masses of people might buy a trinket or two, or maybe even a T-shirt, but they don't bring any profit to the city.

Even then, Venice had quite a bit of money, until Project Moses, the gates at the entrance of the bay that was planned in 1987 to protect the city from flooding. It's still not functional, has already cost almost 6 billion euros, way over initial estimates. Almost all of Venice's money went to this supposedly brief project, instead of schools, transportation, infrastructure. It is still nowhere near ready. The reason? The Mayor and the city leadership skimmed most of the money off, with the help of the Mafia. They were all sentenced to jail, meaning house arrest in their mansions. There is a rule in Italy that after a certain age, you can't be put in jail, so they are all out. That's why Berlusconi didn't go to jail despite convictions for prostitution, tax fraud, and sex with a minor a few years ago.

As you mentioned, the university Ca'Foscari was recently ranked one of the best in the world in science, research, economics, and other areas. The economy of the whole northern rim of Italy is very strong, on par with Germany and England. Venice is just getting skunked by unbridled tourism.

Look at this 40 second video. A tourist actually jumped off of a bridge into the Grand Canal started paddle boarding.
A few months ago a tourist jumped off of the Rialto Bridge, going for a swim. Unfortunately, he landed on the window of a motor boat. He spent the next three months in the hospital, then died. This summer a family of about ten gathered right in the middle of St. Mark Square with a bunch of pots and pans, started a fire, and started cooking curry. When told to stop, they said they were just trying to save money.

During the summer, you literally cannot walk over the Rialto Bridge. People taking selfies have it packed. You can't even cross regular neighborhood bridges because tourists are sitting down on it shoulder to shoulder, eating sandwiches.

Now, there are short term rentals avoiding taxes, and tearing neighborhoods apart. Venice is finally a plan to finally manage its mass tourism, and everyone hopes it comes to pass.It just started using its first electric vaporetto and is replacing 54 more to cut down on the pollution in the lagoon, largely caused by cruise ships. They just put a list of 500 ideas to restructure the city, hopefully some will be fruitful. If Venice just carefully curated visiting the city and managed it, tourism wouldn't be a problem, and would probably be highly profitable instead of destructive. It is estimated that 50% of the crowds you see in the street are there for the day, touring in a group, and not spending money. They are not the base of the Venetian economy. Severely regulating cruise ships and AirBnb would do much to make Venetians feel that it is reasonable to stay. I actually have to walk through those crowds to get where I'm going, and so do they.

mkjr

those crowds are causing me to rethink two nights in venice mid may this year. even staying at the binzanzo as recommended. and even rome at the start of the month. i don't give a sshit how beautiful they are. those photos are a damn joke.

obscure2k

Those photos are, indeed, horrifying. Perche is the likely one to answer your question about Venice Mid-may. My husband and I have never encountered what these photos describe.We, for the last 20 years have gone every November. Venice can be the most beautiful place on earth. It is Serene at that time of the year. No where I would rather be. Bonus for white truffles in season.

Perche

I wouldn't cancel if I were you. Virtually none of those people in the crowd will be in Venice before 9-10 AM, or after 8-9 PM.

Go straight out of Hotel Bisanzio, walk 100 yards to the water, turn right, and go to Piazza San Marco before 9 AM, or after 9 PM. The first two pictures below are before and after the cruise ship passengers and other day trippers get back to the ships. After I do my morning run through that beautiful Square I go to any bar on a side street for coffee. All bars at that hour are empty except for a few locals. It's ecstatic to be in San Marco Square having coffee before 9 AM. Just beat the day-trippers.

You can easily avoid being part of the crowd in the pictures. In May you will likely have great weather, and it will be just as empty as in the pictures below if you get there before the cruise ship invasion. Just make sure to head to the periphery of the city center when they arrive, and don't be afraid when you get lost. Forget you bearings. You will be able to get back to your hotel when you need to.

A, "must do," or "rshould do," is to go across the Rialto Bridge early when the fishing boats are coming in, then have coffee after you see that. It's unforgettable. You will be walking across the Rialto Bridge with the chefs who are buying the fish to sell at their restaurant that night, and that you will be eating that night if you are smart.

Before the cruise ship crowd and other day trippers arrive who "Mordi e fuggi," or "bite and run," but provide little to the local economy, get out of the center of the city. Everyone that I know who has gone to Venice on a cruise ship says, "I didn't like Venice." No wonder! They are the ones in the pictures of crowds packing San Marco Square who mordi e fuggi. They think that a stop in Venice is like a stop in Disneyland.

There's a saying, "You haven't been to Venice if you didn't get lost." If you leave Bisanzio after 10 AM, go left and just keep walking. Don't even go to the water. Get as lost as you can in Castello. The streets can seem desolate after a while, but there will be distinct neighborhoods with their own bars and places to eat every hundred yards or so. Take the side streets, even if they wind up in a dead end. Everyone gets lost in Venice, even natives, except for those who grew up in the immediate parish of that church.

As you get away from San Marco it gets empty. Go deep into Castello, to Sant'Elena and Giardini. You won't see anybody but Venetians, some ex-pats, and a few knowledgeable tourists. No crowds. Dogs will be running around chasing sticks and balls, and kids will be playing soccer in the alleys. It will be very hard to beat the beauty of such Venetian scenes.

During the time you will be there,Venice will have about 50,000 visitors per day. Most of them are from cruise ships, and who were told by the cruise director to go to Piazza San Marco, and then to the Rialto Bridge! All 25,000-45,000 of them will be there at the same time, hence the crowds. It's crazy!

One good thing about Bisanzio is that it's very hidden, but is still only a 10 minute walk to Piazza San Marco. You should easily be able to see Piazza San Marco and walk right into the empty Basilica without any crowds or lines, if you go before the cruise ships arrive. Also, you can also easily walk to San Marco Square after 8:30-9PM for a night cap, when it's empty and very romantic.

The next day, find a way across the Grand Canal to see Ponte Rialto before the crowds arrive. The other side of the Grand Canal, the parts of Dorsoduro not near the Guggenheim Museum, and also San Polo if you get far enough away from Rialto Bridge, are amazing.

Venice in May will be more than wonderful. Too bad you are only going to be there for two days. Resign yourself to being hopelessly lost, if you are doing it right. One tip, walk out your door at Hotel Bisanzio, and walk to the water. Instead of going right towards San Marco, go left until you get to Via Garibaldi. Admire Arsenale on the way. Take a left on Via Garibaldi (maybe 1/3 of a mile). Take it to the end, then go explore to the right. You will see local Venice. You will be passing some of the best places for cicchetti. You will see people hanging out the laundry that extends from one street to another. Below is what you experience walking through Castello, what you will eat, and what you will see walking back. All is safe. You will get lost, but you will always find your way back. Don't worry about the crowds. Venice is much bigger than that. I'd worry more about getting a mosquito bite. You will have an unforgettable experience.

Alex71

Tourists, who stay at hotels, have to pay a tourist tax to help fund the upkeep of this beatuful city. I'm assuming people with short term appartment rentals avoid that tax.

There is no reason why the city of Venice shouldn't crack down on that tax avoidance by holding the platform responsible that it is properly collected. There is also no reason, why Venice shouldn't charge that tourist tax from day trippers such as people arriving on cruise ships.

Last time we were there, the San Marco area felt really overcrowded. Anything ,that can be done to manage the crowds better, will be a positive.

Perche

That is exactly the proposal before Venice now, including taxing those coming off of cruise ships because they add little to the economy. Most short term rentals in Italy are not by people renting out a room or apartment because they are out of town. They are corporations or a group of investors that have purchased multiple apartments in cities to rent out on AirBnb.

The so-called owner or front person on the website is someone you will generally not meet because they "are out of town at the moment." Someone in the neighborhood, usually their "father, brother, sister, or the grocery store owner or beautician down the street," will let you in because the owner is "temporarily" out of town.

The front person will tell you that you have to pay the city tax and will give you a receipt. Obviously, if they don't turn in the receipt nobody will know anything. Is the tourist going to call the city to ask if the owner handed over the tax? Of course not. In Italy, most people don't even pay their income tax. The last I read they pay about 1/3rd of what is due, and most people over the age of 55 claim so many deductions that their average tax bill is less than 50 euros per year. Of course the "tax" receipt for the AirBnb goes straight into the nearest trash bin when the mother, sister, or brother leaves.

Almost all cities that have reined in short term rentals, including San Francisco, started by saying that the owner must record and keep the name of the renter. Anyone who has been to Italy knows that a hotel will ask for your passport when you check in because they have to report your presence to the police, usually by 11PM the night of your arrival, for tax and law enforcement purposes.

Nowadays, the bigger cities in Italy are wired enough to not need "Internet Points," stores where you go to get on the internet catch up on your email. Almost all hotels and apartments have wireless, as do many bars. Just six or seven years ago there were few places in Venice where you could get on the internet, and you had to go to an internet point and log on with a meter running. The internet point had to make a copy of your passport before you could do so, and they still have to where such places still exist.

It has to do with open EU borders, international crime, terrorism, etc. In every city that I know of including San Francisco, AirBnb has used its enormous corporate strength as the 800 pound gorilla in the room to refuse. Their position is starting to crumble, as they just dropped their lawsuit against San Francisco where they are located. Their position is that they will not require "owners" to record the information of the people they rent to, like every hotel has to do because, "Our renters are not in the business of law enforcement," even though AirBnb is by far the largest hotel chain in the world, bigger than Starwood, Wyndham, Hilton, and probably any of the two of them combined. Courts around the world are starting to decide that it's time for them to follow the usual rules like having a way to escape a fire, a functional lock on the doors, insurance, etc. At every place that I know of, AirBnb has either lost in the courts, or has given up the fight.

I'm heading to Ostuni tomorrow, a small town in Puglia. I'll be meeting people there, but for the first day I'll be by myself. After finding appropriate lodging I decided to see if AirBnb exists there too. Sure enough, they own a stunning amount of the apartments in Ostuni! Most "owners" say they are out of town at the moment, but not to worry because their sister/brother/husband/local grocer/etc., will be there to meet me. They leave a contact number, and in almost every case the area code is in Milan, and in some cases in Rome. In some cases, it is the same phone number for 5-20 different apartment listings.

Certainly, I agree. This has to be controlled, for the betterment of Venice. These are functionally hotels that escape paying taxes. Paying hotel taxes is critical for a city with a foundation that rests on tourism.

GUWonder

The Italian passport registration for hotel guests requirement has existed long before there was an EU/Schengen zone. So blaming the EU/Schengen or "open borders" for this is missing the mark, if facts matter more than agenda.

Aren't those photos from a day when there was a protest/demonstration/holiday assembly called for in that square? The pictures look like something I saw on a news feed about a solidarity demonstration of sort. I've visited Venice during rather busy times of the year too and I've never seen it like that in person.

Perche

1. Yes, it has been that way for as long as I can remember too, back when I was still paying in lira, but crime, anti-terrorism, and taxes are the current reasons provided for continuance of the policy of requiring a copy of your passport when you arrive.
2. I don't think there is any solidarity in Venice or in Italy. The only agenda is to let people know that there is a lot more to Venice than following the crowds to Piazza San Marco and Ponte Rialto.

GUWonder

Bhutan had a solution to manage tourist numbers. Perhaps Venice could try the same approach and see how long it lasts.