njxbean

So i will be doing a very quick weekend in Venice and Milan.

Flying into Milan early friday and taking the train to venice. Should get in before lunch. Leaving Venice the following morning and headed to Milan. Then leaving the following morning.

So im looking for food recommendations in both cities. Looking for the must try local cuisines and also open to off the beaten path and/or high end eateries.

Thanks.

Perche

When?

For Venice, Al Covo, Alle Testiere, Il Ridotto, Fiaschetteria Toscana, Antiche Carampane, in no particular order. They are all great. I just came back three weeks ago and ate at Il Ridotto for the first time, and wow, they are jumping my list. Unlike some of the other places, if you don't know Venice, it's easy to find Il Ridotto.

None of the above are inexpensive, but you will get what more than what you pay for in quality. You mentioned that you want high end. For quite a few years, Le Calandre has been considered one of the best, if not the best restaurant in all of Italy. It is in Padua, about a 30 minute train ride outside of Venice, but even then, you can't get to it. It's outside of Padova in the suburbs, and you need to take a cab.

Not too long ago the brothers and sisters who own Le Calandre took over Il Quadri in Piazza San Marco, another one of the restaurants around Piazza San Marco that always completely fail. You never want to eat in Piazza San Marco, or anywhere in the vicinity, unless you really know what you are doing. This version of Il Quadri has to be an exception. I haven't eaten there, but people were talking about it when I was in Venice three weeks ago, even though it's been open for a while. None of my venetian friends have eaten there either. They said it costs about 150 euros per person for dinner, not counting wine.

Given the way the Alajmo family cooks and how their restaurant in Padova is considered to be perhaps the best restaurant in all of Italy, which is saying a lot, if high end is not a problem, this is your place. Otherwise, the other restaurants I mentioned are all fantastic.

Note, you can sit outside Il Quadri and have a coffee. If the music is playing, that coffee will cost you about 14 euros. If you go inside and stand at the bar, that same coffee will cost you 1 euro. There is a restaurant downstairs, at the level of the bar. That's not the one. It's junk. Il Quadri has two levels. The Alajmo family's restaurant is the one upstairs. If you are looking for the high-end one, make sure you make your reservations for the one upstairs.

njxbean

Very helpful thanks. Going the first weekend in March.

Ive also read about stand up tapas like restaurants in Venice? Any thoughts on those?

Perche

If you are in Spain and you go to your hotel's front desk and ask, "where is the nearest tapas bar," they will look at you in a strange manner. There is no such thing. The bars just have snacks out on the table, and you can take some. They are called tapas. It's not a specialty, bars just serve food with the drinks.

In Venice as in Spain, all bars have snacks out that you can eat while standing at the bar. They are called cicchetti. In most bars the cicchetti consist of just potato chips or peanuts, just like the average bar in Spain. In other bars, chicchetti can be quite elaborate, like codfish with pistachio sauce, gorgonzola cheese with balsamic vinegar, etc. They usually cost one euro each. Without a doubt, you can make a meal out of cicchetti. Although I have my, "best place," (Cantinone Gia Schiavi) unless you are staying in Dorsoduro, you won't be able to find it. There really is no one best place, but most places are bad, so you have to move around until you find a good one.

You have to move from place to place stopping at bars, and eat what looks good. Just understand that venetians know that most of the people who walk into their bar or restaurant will be in another country the next day, so they don't care what they serve you. The average length of stay for a tourist visiting Venice is 1.5 days, which is ridiculous. This is why the food in most of Rome, Florence, and Venice is usually barely edible.

To get good chiccetti you have to get out of the tourist area, away from San Marco. Although the area around the Rialto Bridge is very touristy, there are decent chicchetti places around the fish market. You have to know which ones, and it's impossible to explain, but it's 50-50. You can go into a place and have a great calamari that was swimming just hours ago, or you can eat complete tourist junk. Use your instinct.

njxbean

This type of information is why i love this board!!! Thanks!!

slawecki

i have been disappointed in Milanese cooking.

in venice, Al Covo, Alle Testiere, Il Ridotto, Fiaschetteria Toscana, Antiche Carampane, are chocked full of tourists. they are listed in rick stevens to michelin.

i really like this book"

"A Guide to the Eateries of Venice: Bars, Wine Bars, Trattories, Restaurants; a H"
by
michela scibilia. the 2015 edition is on ebay, from england. about $30, and only 112 pages.

a lot of the little "dives" cook very well. go in and try one.

Perche

I have to respectfully disagree. None of the restaurants I recommended are going to be in a Rick Steve book. Look at the price points. Lunch at Il Ridotto is fixed price, about $30 euros. Dinner is fixed price, about 60 euros. Rick Steve's "Europe Through the Back Door" provides lists of places where you can feed a family of five for 20 euros. He's not recommending Alle Testiere or Al Covo, where you are not getting out without spending at least 40 euros per person. They are not tourist places.

You can't just walk into any mom places in Venice, because 95% of them are just there to serve the tourist traffic. For the festUrants I recommended, start a tourist in San Marco, and give me a stop watch. If they find Alle Testiere in less than 45 minutes, I'll be stunned. If they find Antiche Carampane in less than an hour, you could blow me down with a feather. Il Ridotto is close, but the price prohibits walk-ins. Al Covo is quite close to San Marco, but because of how the streets curve in Castello, I'd give someone at least a half hour to get there from Piazza San Marco, even though if you know the city, it's a 7-10 minute walk. You don't just wander into Al Covo or Alle Testiere as a tourist. Even using GPS, I would challenge any tourist starting in San Marco to find Antiche Carampane in less than an hour.

These are places you have to hunt for in small ally ways, where GPS won't work. They are way out of the Rick Steve tourist book league. I also would not recommend going to Venice with a tourist guide book. Standing on the corner staring at a map and a guide book just screams out, "I am an American tourist. Take advantage of me." It's not necessary.

Also, most all all good restaurants in Venice are closed for most of the day. It's a sign of an authentic restaurant. They open around 12, and close around 2. They reopen at 7, and close at 9. The ones that are open all day that you can just wander into at any hour are the tourist traps, because Venetians don't eat at 3 o'clock in the afternoon

Perche

In Milan, I suggest you stick with the risotto and not the pasta, unless you really know where to go.

FlyingHoustonian

While I personally find Venetian food ehhh so-so, (and I lived there a long time as have others on this board who think it is the center of the universe for some reason) I will concur wholeheartedly with the recommendation of Al Covo.

For full disclosure, my family knew Diane Rankin before she married and moved to Venice with her husband to open the place, but that is not why I suggest it; I suggest it because it is solid, great food, and a wonderful overall experience.

Al Covo is in many a guidebook and tourist website, even Lonely Planet, and there will be tourists there as well as locals, but that is ok, it is worth the trip.

It is not that hard to find either, just follow the water on the Schiavoni headed east.

I need to dig out my receipt from a recent meal in Milano, and I'll try and repost for you. I actually had a good polenta, that was not instant, but the name of the place escapes me. my meals in Milano are normally business meals and are hit or miss. The best are when the chef comes out and I can actually talk to him and see where he is from and what specialty he suggests. If you do not speak Italian that is harder of course, but that tends to get my the best options in Milano.

Oh, I have seen a trend recently of people trying to say they had great pizza in Milano, if people tell you that punch them in the face j/k sort of

ckendall

In Milan I enjoy fairly traditional local food at places like Osteria del Treno (between Piazza Repubblica and the Stazione Centrale) and Rovello 18 (not far from the Castello). In the winter you can get traditional Milan/Lombardy dishes like cassoeula and bollito misto and pair them with Northern Italian wines.

There are plenty of good high end places in Milan in a variety of styles including Cracco Peck, Aimo e Nadia, Gioja (vegetarian high end concept food), Don Lisander and Sadler to name a few.

JMN57

I will also put in a big plus for Al Covo. And Diane is great. My wife and I always take the receipt from restaurants as a souvenir and to remember what we ate. I forgot to last November and Diane gave the house copy. And, as we were doing lunch on Monday, she made sure we had moeche (and we were greedy and had a couple of orders). BTW - by NYC standards, Al Covo is quite reasonable.

njxbean

Will i need to grab reservations for any of these restaurants? If so how far in advance?

PWMTrav

Just remembering some decent meals from a couple years ago, so no guarantees these places are still good, but -

Osteria il Milion was a good lunch spot for us. It claims to be the oldest osteria in Venice - I can't verify that. They're pretty close to the Rialto bridge and have a menu in like 4 languages, so it's the kind of place I'd normally tell you to stay away from. I remember sitting outside, a pretty serviceable house red, and the sarde in saor being what I'd go back for.

We had dinner at Bistrot De Venise, which serves what they call "historic" recipes - basically food from Venice's past. We did tasting menus, one modern one historic, and really enjoyed it. EDIT: Bistrot De Venise is in the Michelin Guide (not starred, but written) for 2014.

Both of these places are located close enough to Piazza San Marco and Ponte Rialto to be tourist traps. Hell, maybe they were, but we had a nice time - certainly the two meals I remember from our last time in Venice. The rest of the time, I assure you, we ended up in actual tourist traps, complete with mediocre food. I didn't do my homework before that trip.

EDIT again: I forgot Trattoria alla Madonna. Also in the Michelin Guide as a Bib Gourmand. I walked into this place with a real sinking feeling, but it ended up being very good. It's in tourist central. We walked in, total shot in the dark, after asking some random person on the street who I heard speaking in the local dialect (which I cannot understand). It worked out well.

Perche

You must always get reservations in advance, not just in Venice, but in Italy. The mom and pop places that you can just walk into, you don't need reservations, and they are rarely good. The good restaurants are open for a short time. An italian dinner usually takes a few hours, so there is usually just one sitting per night, or perhaps two per table. A restaurant that it open al day, and that you can just walk into without a reservation, is not generally going to be very good. Depending on the season, a couple of days, weeks ahead, or just the day before usually works. Sometimes for lunch you can get in without a reservation, but dinner almot never, unless there has been a cancelation.

FlyingHoustonian

This could not be more untrue if it were written in bigger type with flashing lights.


The true part of this post.

This is back to the falsehoods part. There are thousands of great restaurants open in Italia that do not require reservations and many do not even take them. Yes, in the Venezia there are some good ones that day, and Al Covo is certainly one, but that experience is not the norm for the vast majority of Italia.