upgradeluvr

There are many ways to experience a country. It all depends on the traveler, and what THEY want. Not everyone needs to stop and visit every church, bridge or doorknob to have a memorable experience...and trust me, my clients are all satisfied with my itineraries. Some cities don't offer the same level of attractions as others do, and Venice, while a lovely city, is one of those places. I've had clients stay there for two nights, attended a performance at La Fenice and were very satisfied.

Spending a week in Venice is hardly necessary and in my opinion overkill. You can get a sense of Venetian food in two nights, it's possible. Perhaps you have been conned by your travel agent into suggesting you "need" to waste extraneous money on Venice. Or perhaps your knowledge of Italy isn't that great to begin with...?

Perche

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I don't have a travel agent. I have been living in Venice half time since 2010, although I did spend a good part of 2013 working in Torino. The other 50% of the time I live in Marin County.

If you think a week in Venice is overkill, I've been living here for 2 of the last five years, and I can assure you it is not.

upgradeluvr

Well, bravi to you and your vast experience living in Venice. You must have quite a collection of hipboots living there....acqua alta and all....

For the last ten years, I've been dividing my summers between my three properties in Emilia-Romagna. I rather suspect most Americans (like the OP) don't get more than two weeks vacation. So, most US travelers I've come across don't have the time to stay 7 nights in a Venetian palazzo.

Age also seems to play a role in travel preferences, or so I've noticed. The younger sorts, seem to prefer moving around from city to city, while the older types by and large, seem to prefer a more stationary visit.

PWMTrav

Meh, I don't think any of that is fair. I'm barely 30 and I like to travel slowly, as do most people I know. Whether you're off for two weeks or 20, the beauty of travel is to experience new or different cultures. That's entirely my opinion, of course. But in spending 7 days in 7 cities, what exactly does one gain? To take a couple of pictures and "see" something? To each his own, but I don't get it.

I don't think it's age. I think it's cultural. As soon as we arrive somewhere, most Americans are immediately in a hurry to get to the next place. I think that as a result, many travel that way too - it's an extension of daily routine in another location. The same reason one chooses to stay in a Hilton/Starwood/Hyatt/etc instead of a local option: familiarity and routine.

Spending a week in one city doesn't mean being stationary. It means that for a week, you try your best to integrate. What would a Venetian/Florentine/Roman do with a few days or even an afternoon off? That sort of thing. It might involve a walk, some shopping, a couple of meals, something cultural, etc. That, in my opinion, is far more interesting than a vacation less relaxing than your regular job/career. You don't need to be old, just interested.

I believe that most US travelers you work with don't want to stay 7 days in a Venetian palazzo, but I dispute that they don't have time. They have the entire length of their stay, if they so choose, to explore the local culture. But stating it as "they don't have time" sort of makes my point about the cultural nature of the need to, in a way, feel productive on vacation by "seeing" as much as possible.

If you're going to go all the way to Italy, it's not the worst idea to let go and slow down a bit.

Perche

Wow, UPGRADELOVER, I'm sorry for being allowed to live in Venice. I'll be here all of this winter. Can we meet for a prosecco, and sort this out?

Perche

No agism. I have three 20 something year olds. One at a time, I've brought each of them here to experience living with me in Venice. Two of them wound up staying here for over three years, although one in Rome and the other in Umbria. We are all Italian citizens, even though we live a lot of the time in the USA.

When they come we usually share a cooking class, a wine class, or a cultural class at the University, Ca' Foscari. Nothing is stationary. I've run more marathons than I can count, including Rome and Paris, and the New York City Marathon every year from 1994 to 2005.

There should be no agism here. I signed up for the Venice Marathon each of the past two years, 2013 and 2014, but I realize it's just time to hang up the old shoes, and just cheer from the sidelines. I just can't run more than 18 miles anymore without needing at least the next three days off.

JDiver

Friends / amici,

Much of the information here is priceless, and the variety of approaches means nearly everyone will glean some useful information and perhaps a different approach to travel than their cutrent one.

We can certainly exchange information and opinions without resorting to less than civil and mutually respectful exchanges, as well as with broad brush characterizations and stereotypes.

FlyerTalk is a very diverse community that offers us membership privileges as long as qe remember there are Rules we agreed to abide by. There's no sense to judging one-dimensionally and overlooking others may seek something different from traveling than we (or our clients) do.

Thank you sincerely / grazie di cuore.

JDiver, Senior Moderator

Ord Liza

OP, I am not sure if this is too far from the north for you, but we drove from Florence (you could leave from Bologna) to San Gimignano to Siena to Orvieto. We had 5 in our party ranging from a 22 year old to a 60 year old, with travel preferences ranging from basically take-a-picture-as-you-drive-by/figure-out-later-what -you-just-saw to spend-the-morning-with-the-locals-at-the-market/walk-the-city-the-rest-of-the-day, and everyone enjoyed this part of the trip. If you are going to be in Bologna anyway, the driving time per google maps from Bologna to San Gimignano to Siena to Orvieto is under 4 hours. (Directly to Orvieto from Bologna is under 3.)

Orvieto is easy to maneuver; we drove up the mountain as far as we could, found parking and left the car there (just ran over a couple of times to feed the meter). The cathedral facade is stunning. Also, there is a tour of a couple of the underground caves (if I recall, there are more than 3000 of them). The Hotel Virgilio is right on the Duomo square and was very pleasant. We had an enjoyable dinner at al pozzo etrusca da giovanni ...I had found it online and then when we checked in, we were told that it was the best in Orvieto.

Due to the preferences of some in our party, we did the trip from Florence to Orvieto, with stops in San Gimignano and Siena, all in one day and then spent just one night in Orvieto. The next day, we saw the Cathedral and took the underground tour and walked the city and then drove to Montefiascone, had lunch and continued on to Naples. I could easily have stretched that out by a couple of days and not been bored. Also, if we had more time there, there are a couple of local vineyards (at least one of which has a B and B) that I would have been interested in and a couple of other towns I would have visited (Assisi and another hill town, the name of which escapes me).

BTW, there is an interesting story re how Orvieto survived the war, unlike some of the neighboring towns...

FlyingHoustonian

OP it really depends on what kind of visit you and the lady are looking for.

Do you want museums and churches and whatnot? Foodie? Relaxation? Shopping? Slow travel? Wine tastings? A bit of everything?

I lived very, very close to Venice a few years ago and concur with those that say it is nice place in the wintertime, high water or not, and I think it is must see.

That being said I agree with upgradluvr in that 2-3 days is probably enough for most people. I personally think Venice has some of the most mediocre food in Italy for example (Mediocre food in Italy is better than good food in many places but still). I am sure others might disagree.

If you want to just stay in the north east you can explore other parts of the area and take a quick trip over to Trieste, or up to Bolzano, or up to the lakes like Garda (or even back over to Como near Milano). I can suggest several good places in Trieste. Padua is also a nice, close stop that can be seen easily.

But back to the main question, what do you, or more importantly the lady, want to see/do?

Ciao,
FH

P.S. If you want to go south I will rent you my house in Sicily as I will be out of town in February ^

sscott77

OP here. Thanks for all the suggestions. It is interesting to see how these threads take on a life of their own. I tried to provide clarity in my first and second posts, so as not to create panic in people believing I was an amateur American traveler trying to do to much. Ha!

I have been to Italy several times before, and done Milan, Florence, and Rome. We are flying in and out of Milan bc we got great fares....that we booked last Wednesday and we leave this Wednesday. We are in our 30s and travel all the time in this manner. My fiancé (I'm the woman, he is the man) have demanding, high stress jobs that have times of very high activity - no sleep for days - followed by weeks of nothing. We don't always know when these slow periods will hit, so we usually don't plan out trips too far in advance. We don't have kids and are traveling a lot until we do.

Our last trip was 10 days, we flew in to London and out of Paris. I booked the hotel for our first night in London, on the tarmac in Houston before we took off. We don't plan ahead because we usually can't. We usually don't book more than 2 nights at a time, in case we find somewhere else we want to go, or really love or dislike a place. On that trip, we ended up doing three days in London. We saw some sights, but not too much, did some shopping, had afternoon tea, saw the Book of Mormon, and then decided to go to Belgium. Read a book about Belgium on the train. Did a full day of sights, shopping, and eating in Brussels, and weren't overwhelmed. Took the train to Bruges the next day, loved it, stayed longer than expected, then went to Paris and continued the trend.

We try to have a list of recommendations for cities we might end up in, usually these recommendations are around food, and then we just kind of wander and take it all in. We are not huge museum or art people, but sometimes we try those. Mostly we just have fun experiencing wherever we are together.

So, we leave Wednesday, arrive Thursday and have one night in Milan booked, along with a great dinner reservation. Venice and Veneto region are definitely happening. Nothing else is confirmed. Depending on how we like it, we will take off from there. Maybe Emilia Romagna, maybe Trieste, maybe something I haven't read about yet.

I'm going to take all these suggestions with me, and thank goodness for the internet. We could end up in Germany, for all I know, and hopefully flyer talk will get us to the best spots! Thanks again!

Perche

Sounds like a great way to travel. If you are going to be in Venice and Veneto, just a couple of thoughts. Venice is not about sightseeing. You don't, "take in" The Doges Palace, the Rialto Bridge, and San Marco. Everywhere you turn there is more beauty that you can imagine. You stop at a place that touches you, and you have a two hour coffee. Then you walk, and afterward you have a three hour lunch. experience Veces.

Leave the TripAdvisor list, and even your watch, in your luggage. Venice is a place to experience, not a place to do a sightseeing trip where you check off places you've been to.

As for seeing the Veneto outside of Venice, I'd have to say that this is not like driving around Tuscany or Piedmonte, with beautiful rolling hills. If you tell the Veneto people that it is a beautiful place to drive, they will look at you funny. they say their region is, "destroyed, a disaster"

During the huge economic boom of the 70's people started building factories here like crazy. Textile shops, rubber shops, petro- chemical shops (Marghera) you name it. Giant factories were built without a plan for anyone to even occupy them, and most of them never were finished. Almost all over, they are empty, never finished, or occupied, and that's what you see driving through the Veneto. They are called Capononi. The saying here in the Veneto is it is the land of the capononi, and there are more capononi than people.

The Veneto is one giant plain, full of rusting, aging, empty buildings. It is in the news everyday, including today, not the romantic things that they want to tell tourists about.

I would suggest that you stay in Venice your whole time because right now is perfect. All that venetians are talking about is having their city back, at least for the next few weeks, before Carnevale starts.

If you want to drive through Veneto, and not do the Verona, Padua, Vicenza tourist circuit, you have only a few options. Verona is famous for co-opting the story of Rome and Juliet. Completely fake. Never happened, but they've made quite a tourist industry out of it. The Roman stadium I think is the second largest, but if you have seen Rome, it won't impress you. There are two nice markets, not much more. It's just not even average in beauty, as Italian cities go, just high on tourism.

Vicenza has two things going for it: Palladio, and codfish. Palladio designed many of the buildings, and his architecture is pretty beautiful and structured. But Venice is built the same way. The one difference is the codfish. It is really, really hard to beat Venice for sea food, anywhere in the world. If you like eating pig and wild boar, go to Emiglia-Romagna or Tuscany. IIR IA IAN. In the Veneto you could go go Padua, but it is industrial, and basically ugly.

If you have a certain target, like doing a pilgrimage at the church of Saint Anthony of Padua, I can understand that. Or, of you want to go to the Capella della Scrovegni and see the marvelous frescoes of Giotto, of course. But the city is a dump. Let's face it. You can walk anywhere, at any time of the day or night in Venice, and in almost all parts of Italy with absolutely no fear of crime except for very few places, and Padua is one of them. Don't take this wrong as any form of prejudice because it's not, but downtown Padua you won't be hearing Italian songs from the church steps, or coming out of the window the way you will in Venice or Naples. You are just going to hear Arabic. Nothing wrong with it. Italy is a multi-cultural place, but for american tourists, sometimes they are not use to it. Now there is the racial strife.

The big news was that last week the city council passed a bill banning building anymore mosques. You can always feel safe in Italy. To get robbed, and certainly to get pick-pocketed or purse-snatched you have to want to ask for it. Not in Padua, unfortunately. It's one of the few places like that. Watch where you are going. Don't hang around like a tourist.

Since you made it clear you are driving souths but you are doing Venice and Veneto, don't go driving through the plains of the capononi. Most of the Veneto is too ugly. Like driving the New Jersey Turnpike, or driving through Michigan. But if that's your region you can definitely see some things after a nice Venetian "I AM NOT SIGHTSEEING, I AM HERE FOR THE EXPERIENCE ," soggiorno.

The part to see is referred to as Piedi della montagna. Not to be confused with Piemonte, a specific region to the West. Wherever there are hill, there are foot hills, so the places below the foothills are piedi delle colline. Where there are the foot of mountains, there are piedi della montagna. The feet of the mountain. Get out of the plaines of the Veneto, and head to the foot of the mountains.

At the foot of the mountains you will find your gems. There is something like an, "America's Got Talent," or something like that. In Italy there is, "Italy has the best towns." people call in to get them elected, in the same way you get dancing to the stars dancers elected.

When a place is really, really nice, it becomes a United Nations World Heritage Protected site. The Whole european union considers it worth saving, and throws money in. I don't know which city, competing against all of Italy, not just Veneto, came in second for "best Burgo." Best Burgo, is like a little bigger than a town. I think it was either Asolo or Montangnana.

I can hardly tell those two apart. Both beautiful, walled historic towns. I personally can't tell them apart from their neighbors Bassano, Conegliano, Este, and and Marostica.

Those are the towns to see in the Veneto, in my opinion. Additional sites, but now you are getting out of slow travel italy, is to get to Trieste, and also Mantova.

This is way more real than doing the fake Romeo and Juliet balcony, and visiting Padua.

If you really want to try a bigger city that is still doable, consider Sabbionetta, outside of Mantova.
Sabbionetta is in the headlines here today, and the White House has apologized. It was started by the Borgia's who apparently had nothing do, so right outside of Mantua they made their perfect town, Sabbionetta, where every one is protesting that the USA did't show enough with the terrorism last week in France. Im stretching borders here beyond Veneto to Emilia Romanga and Lombardia

After Venice, which in one week, minimum, if you need to stretch, these feet of the mountain towns are the tops. Or, Trieste, Venice's twin Conegliano, Este, Montanana, maoros

upgradeluvr

Wow - what an incredibly elitist statement. Most travelers use TripAdvisor as a reference, like some may use FT forums as a reference. There is nothing wrong with people utilizing TripAdvisor.

I rather suspect some inhabitants and tourism boards in The Veneto would love to read your glowing testimonial of their region. Gee, are you prejudiced much?

Now this comment is simply staggering!

What you have omitted, is the fact that a major opera festival (Arena di Verona) takes place at this Roman amphitheater every summer. In fact, this year 2015 is the 93rd. Nevermind this is an a major international music festival and thousands of people visit annually. Nevermind this is a fully preserved 1st century Roman building, still in use today. The Colosseum in Rome cannot be used to stage events, whereas this one can. It's quite impressive, even when the opera is not taking place.

Must all your comments involve a comparison to Venice? I feel there is no need to marginalize the UNESCO World Heritage City of Vicenza....suggesting it's only good for two things. Yes, it's the town of Palladio and Baccalà (salted codfish), but it's much more than that. I've had plenty of great seafood up and down the Adriatic coast. Cities like Cesenatico, Rimini, Pesaro and Ancona all have wonderful seafood, and in many ways, superior to Venice....and less expensive for the same quality.


I find no need to inject race or ethnicity into this forum. No racism here, please! America is a melting pot. I feel most Americans (specially the ones living on the coasts) are used to hearing multiple languages and experiencing people from all walks of life. From reading your comment, you say "hearing Arabic" is a deterrent for traveling to Padua. Italy is changing, my friend. The demographics have changed, but I guess reading from your comments, some people feel it's a bad thing...?

KLouis

Here we go again, after a few days of calm: the Italy thread seems to attract heated debates...

Everyone is entitled to his/her opinions and you may agree or disagree with them. But discussing in detail every single point made a previous poster, in particular, using a rather derogatory way, will only lead, sooner or later, to the thread being closed by a moderator. It certainly does not help the OP obtain the info needed and it is tiring for the rest of us.

Please cool down!

JDiver

The idea is sharing diverse perspectives in a welcoming, friendly environment - and sharing the knowledge. That seems to be somewhat lacking here, leaning toward judgmental statements, a belief one's own perspective is dominant and the only one that's acceptable, salted with judging other posters and their opinions.

Given how this topic is creating smoke, generating too much OMNI and insufficient mutual respect, we'll let it cool off for now.

JDiver
Senior Moderator