exilencfc

The city authorities in Venice are threatening to ban wheeled suitcases because of the noise they make and the damage they are doing to pavements. Strangely they don't mention the hazards associated with idiotic suitcase draggers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...on-wheels.html

Perche

What a great post! I looked up the original article in Il Gazzetino and it has the accompanying video below, which had me laughing so hard.

Most of it is in italian but some of it is in english. Even if you don't understand Italian, watching the italian tourists' expressions when stopped by a reporter on the street and told "Sua valigia e fuori legge," or "Your suitcase is against the law," and he goes on to tell them that starting in May they are going to get a 150 euro fine, and others a 250 euro fine if they have rubber wheels on their suitcase instead of air-filled ones, is so funny. You can tell by their reactions that there is no way this bill is ever going to be enacted.

A few months ago Venetians "voted" to secede from Italy. Not too long after the vote they found a hidden tank that the secessionists were going to use to take over Piazza San Marco. It was an old WWII tank patched up with papier mache. Things like this happen in Venice, especially now that the Mayor and 40 of the city's leaders are in jail for mafia activities. The Italian government is famous for enacting laws. The Italian people are famous for knowing which ones to ignore. Venice will never get this one through or followed. They'll ban cruise ships before they ban wheelies.

http://video.ilgazzettino.it/index.j...iani-e-turisti

kluau88

This article says that the ban will take place starting in May 2015. The fines seem quite steep!

http://blog.sfgate.com/getlost/2014/...ise-pollution/

Perche

The article is wrong. It was an edict by an "Extraordinary" commissioner. The Extraordinary Commissioner is an unelected person who is taking the place of the mayor while the mayor and much of the rest of the city's leadership is under house arrest for mafia crimes. He probably just wants to line up some venetian votes. He would have to get the edict through several bureaucracies before it is the law, including the noise pollution bureau. Good luck with that. I wouldn't go out and buy new luggage based upon this because it's not going to happen.

Each and every cruise ship causes indescribable, permanent damage to Venice. Venetians finally voted to ban large cruises ships last year after years of protesting their presence. Yet, large cruise ships are still coming in at the same rate because the courts prevented the ban from being enacted.

The Extraordinary Commissioner, that's his actual title since there is no mayor, issued such an edict because Venice has a love/hate relationship with tourism. Venetians hate how tourism has destroyed much of the city. However, they have already cast their bets on tourism, and now they can't live without it. The tourism industry will chime in and say, "this edict will reduce hotel, restaurant, shopping, and other tourist income, and will drive us out of business!!!" The Extraordinary Commissioners edict won't be enacted, and Venice will continue to sell itself out for the tourism money.

Venetians will not do anything that might negatively affect tourism, as tourism is almost all that Venice has left. And even if Venetians somehow do get a conscience about how unbridled tourism has negatively affected the city, Venice is ultimately controlled by Rome right now, and Rome needs the money. They won't take a stand against Venetian tourism, and will cave in the same way that they did when it came to the cruise ship ban.

The money collected in Venice goes to Rome, then back to Venice, after Rome takes its cut.

We can laugh about this edict come May. Venice will not enact any edict that might reduce tourism. It may happen some day, but not now. This is just for laughs and headlines. Opera buffa.

exilencfc

Thanks Perche. I did think it seemed a rather dubious prospect - how on earth would you enforce it? But your explanation of the background does explain the situation. I do wish that Venice would ban the big cruise liners (even as a visitor I thought they were bloody annoying) but at least you can feel you're beng environmentally friendly by flying in.

Perche

Now comes the predictable decision in the newspaper today.

http://www.ilgazzettino.it/NORDEST/V.../1025851.shtml

In brief:

"Extraordinary Commissioner Zappalorto puts the wheeled luggage issue behind him. After a clamor by the media and protests from the hotel owners the commissioner corrected that luggage would be excluded from the rule."

"VENEZIA - Il trolley "silenziato" fa più rumore che mai..... (The issue of silencing wheeled luggage is making more noise than the wheeled luggage ever made)

Esplode il caso e 48 ore dopo arriva la smentita del Commissario Zappalorto, travolto dall'onda mediatica: "Solo carri e transpallet." Dunque, niente trolley."

In other words, 48 hours after this issue exploded, Extraordinary Commissioner Zappalorto denies it after being a wave of media coverage, and now says the edict would only apply to transporting things on very large "pallets," and, not to wheelie suitcases.

Perche

http://www.thelocal.it/20141121/veni...y-suitcase-ban

RussianTexan

Flying in is environmentally friendly? What? The CO2 emissions from flying are stratospheric!

Also, this story has reached stateside: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/21/travel...html?hpt=hp_c3

Perche

[/quote]Also, this story has reached stateside: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/21/travel...html?hpt=hp_c3[/QUOTE]

I hope no one goes out and wastes money on new luggage, or even worse, decides not to go to Venice on the basis of this false information.

PWMTrav

I hope no one goes out and wastes money on new luggage, or even worse, decides not to go to Venice on the basis of this false information.[/QUOTE]

Pero speriamo che le navi stanno al paese suo.

exilencfc

Of course flying isn't environmentally friendly. But it does less harm to Venice than cruise ships do.

Perche

I agree with you. I was exploring the back areas of the lagoon by kayak with a venetian environmentalist less than a month ago. We stopped for lunch in Burano, and somehow conversation veered into discussing cruise ships. He explained that the carbon emissions of one cruise ship was something like 15,000 cars spitting out fumes in the lagoon. I don't remember the exact number, but doing the math, we calculated that on the usual day when six large ships come to port the amount of pollution experienced by Venetians is the same as if they lived adjacent to the main highway that circles Milan.

Perche

Interesting update from the Gazzetino, the Venice newspaper today.
VENEZIA - Un trolley? No. Un porta-trolley, allora? Sì, ecco. Un porta-trolley sponsorizzato che non metta in croce i turisti, costretti ad arrivare a Venezia con una valigia che non sia spacca-timpani e spacca-masegni. Il Commissario straordinario Vittorio Zappalorto, non potendo più smentire la storia, cerca di trasformarla in una opportunità di incassi per il Comune. Tant’è che una grossa azienda come la Roncato sta progettando proprio una valigia rispettosa delle città d’arte. Basterebbe autorizzare la ditta a chiamarla "Venezia" per farsi pagare le royalties, no?

Translation:
Wheeled luggage? No. But now, a porta-trolley (something that can transport the wheeled luggage)? Yes, there you go. A sponsored porta-trolley that doesn't place the tourists in the crosshairs, restricted to come to Venice with a suitcase that doesn't split eardrums and split cobblestones. The Extraordinary Commissioner Vittorio Zappalorto, no longer able to refute the story, is searching for a way for venetians to cash in on it. It is such that a large company like Roncato luggage is already planning to make a suitcase that respects this city of art. It would be sufficient if they call it "the Venezia" and pay us royalties, no?

Perche

Longer story from Corriere della sera, a Rome based newspaper, an interview with the Extraordinary Commissioner, with translation.

Venezia, porta-trolley agli arrivi
i turisti si adatteranno
Tre anni di tempo per introdurre nuove regole. Ed è caccia agli sponsor

Title, Venice, "Venice, trolleys to carry luggage, and the tourists will adapt.
Three years of time to introduce the new rules. And he is hunting for sponsors

Question: "Commissario, ma lei quando va in vacanza usa il trolley?
Response: Certo, ne ho uno con le ruote di gomma. Sarei in regola... ».

Vittorio Zappalorto ha ancora voglia di scherzare. Ma al termine del weekend più lungo del suo mandato di commissario governativo di Venezia, con la città finita sulle prime pagine di tutti i giornali del globo con la notizia («falsa», dice lui) del divieto per i trolley con le ruote di plastica rigida e le beffe di Luciana Littizzetto a «Che tempo che fa» su Rai3 (dove il suo cognome è stato storpiato in «Fresalorto», «Grattaterra» e «Tritasugna»), il prefetto rilancia e il tono torna di nuovo serio: «Visto che mi sono preso tutti gli sberleffi, visto che mi hanno sbeffeggiato, sa una cosa: a questo punto lo faccio per davvero.

Question: Venezian Extraordinary Commissioner, "When you go on vacation do you use wheelie luggage?
Response: Sure, I have one with rubber wheels, so I wouldn't be breaking this new law."

Vittorio Zappalorto even now wants to fool around. But at the end of the longest weekend of his term as Extraordinary Commissioner of Venice, with the city all over the front pages of newspapers around the world saying Venice is going to ban luggage with rigid plastic wheels (which he says, "is false"), and he being made the subject of mockery by Luciana Littizzetto of the nightly news program "Che tempo che fa 'on channel 3 (where she intentionally mutilates his name and calls him, " Fresalorto," "Grattaterra "and" Tritasugna "), he then turned serious and said, "I see that I have taken all the sneers, I see that I have been mocked, so know one thing: now I am going to do it for real."

Question: Commissario, proibirà l’uso dei trolley in città?
Response: Se vuole è un po’ una provocazione, una ripicca. Ma lo faccio perché io non lavoro per i miei interessi, ma per migliorare la vita di questa città».

Question: Commissioner, will you prohibit the use of wheeled luggage in the city?
Response: "If you want to, you can call it a provocation, a fit of pique. But I do it because I do not work for my interests, I work to improve the life of this city. "

Question: Però lei proprio venerdì scorso, a polemica esplosa, smentì «con la più assoluta fermezza» che in quella bozza di regolamento edilizio si parlasse di trolley...
Response: Il riferimento ai trolley c’era nella bozza, ma solo perché si trattava di un regolamento modello, scritto “a matita” e al vaglio delle categorie. L’errore giornalistico è stato dire che si trattava di una decisione presa e operativa, mentre io non mi sarei mai sognato di mandarla avanti in quel modo, perché so bene che effetto avrebbe dal punto di vista economico».

Question: But just last Friday, a controversy erupted, and you denied "with the utmost firmness" that there was any talk about wheeled luggage in the draft building code.
Response: "The reference to the wheelies was in the draft building code, but only as a model of what could happen, drafted in pencil, and under the category of luggage. The journalistic error was in saying that it was a decision that I made and that was operational, when I would never have dreamed of sending a bill forward like that, because I very well know the effect it would have from an economic viewpoint."

Question: Ora però dice che ci vuole ripensare. In che senso?
Response: Dare solo sei mesi di tempo per adeguarsi sarebbe stato troppo poco. Con un tempo più ampio, due o tre anni, le aziende potrebbero attrezzarsi in vista di un cambio così importante di comportamenti».

Question: But now you say you want to rethink about it. In what sense?
Response: To give only six months to comply would have been too little. With more time, two or three years, companies might be able to gear themselves up with a view towards changing such important behaviors. "

Question: Non teme che riparta una girandola di polemiche?
Response: Mi interessano poco. Qui è da 10 anni che i cittadini si lamentano di questa storia dei trolley, ma nessuno li ha mai ascoltati, perché scrivere una cosa del genere è imbarazzante, è molto impopolare, si va contro a lobby fortissime come gli albergatori».

Question: Are not you afraid that you are starting another whirlwind of controversy?
Response: I'm not very interested in that. For the last ten years the citizens have been complaining about these wheelies, and no one has ever listened to them, because to write about such a thing that generates embarrassment and is very unpopular if it goes against extremely strong lobbyists like hoteliers.

Question: Littizzetto ha ipotizzato, ironicamente, poliziotti in stazione che spaccano le ruote rigide. Oppure pit-stop obbligati a Rialto per sostituirle con ruote di gomma. Come si potrebbe applicare e far rispettare un divieto simile?
Response: La Littizzetto parla dal suo salotto di casa, ma lo sa che Venezia negli ultimi 25 anni ha perso più di metà dei suoi abitanti? Provi a venire a vivere qui, ma non in qualche albergo di lusso al riparo da rumori, e capirà che certe “inezie” sono importantissime per chi vive in questa città. Capirà che a Venezia ci sono ogni anno 26 milioni di turisti e milioni di questi hanno il trolley. Se c’è un tempo ampio, le aziende si possono adeguare».

Question: TV journalist Littizzetto ironically suggested that there will be police stationed around the city to cut the wheels off of people's luggage. Or there will be an obligatory pit stop at Rialto Bridge like at a Ferrari race where there are mechanics who rapidly change the drivers tires, who will obligingly and quickly replace the hard wheels on tourists luggage with rubber wheels. How could you apply and enforce such a ban?
Response: Littizzetto speaks from the comfort of her living room, but does she know that in the last 25 years Venice has lost more than half of its inhabitants? You try to come and live here, but not in some luxury hotel separated from the noise, and come to understand that certain little things are very important for those who live in this city. You will understand that in Venice there are 26 million tourists every year and millions of these wheelies. Given enough time, companies will find a way to adapt. "

Question: In passato il Comune aveva già preso dei contatti con alcune aziende.
Response: Io penso che qualche produttore potrebbe mettere sul mercato nuovi modelli, non mi pare una richiesta stratosferica. Poi io penso che si potrebbe andare a caccia di sponsor su un altro progetto. Prenda alcune delle grandi firme, tipo Prada o Louis Vuitton: ognuna potrebbe produrre dei porta-trolley marchiati con le ruote di gomma e i turisti li riceverebbero a piazzale Roma, in stazione, in aeroporto. Loro si farebbero pubblicità, il Comune potrebbe anche incassare dei soldi e i turisti capirebbero che a Venezia bisogna adattarsi».

Question: In the past, has the city already started to make contact with some companies?
Response: I think some manufacturer could put on the market new models, I do not think this is a stratospheric request. Then I think you could go hunting for sponsors on another project. Take some of the big names, like Prada or Louis Vuitton: each one could produce trolley with rubber wheels that could carry the tourists wheelies, and tourists would receive them at Piazzale Roma, at the train station, or at the airport. They could advertise, the City could also collect some of the money and tourists would understand that in Venice they have to adapt.

Question: I soldi, appunto. Ma il commissario non era arrivato per sistemare i conti del Comune? Non crede che decisioni come queste spettino a una giunta «politica»?
Response: Quella dei trolley non è solo una questione di rumore. Scassano i masegni, scassano i ponti, scassano la città. Quando abbiamo preso in mano i conti, abbiamo visto che si spendono centinaia di migliaia di euro per la manutenzione. una cifra esorbitante. E poi mi scusi: tutte le questioni sono politiche, non è che noi siamo qui solo per fare i tecnici: abbiamo fatto così anche con i lucchetti, che rovinavano l’immagine, ma anche i ponti».

Question: The money, exactly. But, Commissioner didn't it come to this to settle the monetary accounts of the City? Do you not believe that decisions such as these come about from the interest of "politics"?
Response: The issue of the wheelies is not just a matter of noise. They batter the cobble stones, batter the bridges, they batter the city. When we took our accounts in hand, we saw that we spend hundreds of thousands of Euros for maintenance, an exorbitant amount. And then, excuse me: all issues are political, we are not just here to make technical decisions: we did so with the tourists who were putting their "love locks" on the Academia and other bridges with the locks, which were ruining not just the images of the bridges, but also the bridges. "

Question: Resta il fatto che qualcuno obietta che state andando un po’ oltre il mandato.
Response: Io sono sicuro di essere dalla parte dei cittadini».

Question: The fact remains that some object that you all are going a bit over your mandate.
Response: I am sure that I am on the side of the citizens.

Question: Lei prima ha fatto riferimento alle lobby e ha citato gli albergatori. In questi primi mesi con chi ha dovuto scontrarsi più di tutti? «
Response: Le lobby veneziane le conoscevo già prima di venire a fare il commissario: albergatori, commercianti, gondolieri, tassisti tengono in ostaggio la città e l’unico modo per stare tranquilli sarebbe non cambiare nulla. Appena tocchi qualcosa, te li trovi sotto Ca’ Farsetti. Non accettano le regole».

Question: You previously made reference to lobbyists, and you cited hoteliers. In these first months, who have you had to struggle with the most? "
Response: Venetian lobbyists already knew before having to deal with the Commissioner: hoteliers, traders, gondoliers, taxi drivers, all held the city hostage, and the only way to be safe would be to not change anything. Just touch something, you will find them under city hall. They do not accept the rules.

Question: Ha avuto il suo bel da fare anche con i sindacati dei dipendenti, tanto che alla fine ha dovuto fare dietrofront.
Response: Su 4 milioni di tagli ne ho conservati 3 e sono soddisfatto. Certo anche i sindacati sono una lobby che non fa gli interessi generali della città».

Question: You've had you to do good things even with the employee unions, so that eventually things had to turn around. "
Response: On 4 million cuts I have kept 3 and am satisfied. Certainly the trade unions have a lobby that does not have the cities best interests in mind. "

Question: Si è pentito di aver detto sì al ruolo di commissario?
Response: No, è un’esperienza unica, che capita una volta nella vita. E’ stato un premio, un privilegio. Poi certo è evidente che su tutto a Venezia c’è una strumentalizzazione eccessiva».

Question: Do you regret taking on the role of commissioner?
Response: No, it is a unique experience, a once in a lifetime. It's been a prize, a privilege. But then, it is certainly evident that overall in Venice there is excessive exploitation.

exilencfc

Thanks Perche, a fascinating read