Intercontinental, not a luxury brand?
Mar 15, 2017, 8:52 am
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Well we all have our experiences and there are a lot of IC's, StR's and RC's out there to sample. And they can vary quite a bit. I've stayed at good, bad and mediocre examples of each of these brands. Perhaps I try to target the good ones after all my experience. And when I have to stay at some of the poor ones I have lowered my expectations. But boy have I really been disappointed in a lot of my StR stays. And it is mostly related to having to fight at check in rather than accepting an entry level room. That never really happens at IC's. IME anyways.
Mar 15, 2017, 8:56 am
#47
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,265
Well we all have our experiences and there are a lot of IC's, StR's and RC's out there to sample. And they can vary quite a bit. I've stayed at good, bad and mediocre examples of each of these brands. Perhaps I try to target the good ones after all my experience. And when I have to stay at some of the poor ones I have lowered my expectations. But boy have I really been disappointed in a lot of my StR stays. And it is mostly related to having to fight at check in rather than accepting an entry level room. That never really happens at IC's. IME anyways.
Mar 15, 2017, 1:28 pm
#48
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: UA*G(1K), PC Diamond Amb, Marriott Titanium, Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,673
I think that pretty much sums up what you have said, even if you don't mean it. But it explains why you think I'm missing the point, even though I completely agree with what you are saying here (except for the part where you say I'm missing the point):
But none of that moves a hotel from upper scale to the luxury segment. It's just the individual experience(s), not a hotel categorization.
HTB.
I think you are missing the point. A hotel experience, often, does becomes more luxurious if you are in a upper level suite with perhaps Club access. Non-elites have to pay for that. Elites do not have to pay for a suite on a per-night basis. So ultimately the luxury experience has little to do with elite status and everything to do with the room type and club access. This is true at IC's, StR's, RC's, etc. It is not really true at HI's, Sheraton's or Hilton's or Hyatt's in the US, etc.
You get what you pay for. As an elite I pay for it due to spending 100 nights a year at IC's. Even if those 100 nights are booking entry level rooms. Non-elites have to pay over $1000 per night for a good suite at one of the top IC's. But they will get a much better hotel experience if they pay $1000 per night than if they paid only for an entry level room.
You get what you pay for. As an elite I pay for it due to spending 100 nights a year at IC's. Even if those 100 nights are booking entry level rooms. Non-elites have to pay over $1000 per night for a good suite at one of the top IC's. But they will get a much better hotel experience if they pay $1000 per night than if they paid only for an entry level room.
HTB.
Last edited by htb; Mar 15, 2017 at 1:35 pm
Mar 15, 2017, 2:19 pm
#49
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1,736
The Ics that i stay in are luxury(geneva for example) and I also stay in a lot of so called 7 star hotels.
Other than singapore I have never been to an RC that I would describe as luxury.
The only mandarin oriental was singapore and that was one of the worst hotels that I have ever stayed in.
Other than singapore I have never been to an RC that I would describe as luxury.
The only mandarin oriental was singapore and that was one of the worst hotels that I have ever stayed in.
Mar 15, 2017, 3:00 pm
#50
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Programs: IHG
Posts: 1,316
Then this is where we fundamentally disagree, I am Spire Amb and pay for a suite or get one through booking the room one category below the suite I want (given I don't get RA upgrades) >50% of the time. Being in a suite makes the experience more pleasant but isn't what makes a hotel part of the luxury category for me. Based on my experience, the IC service experience is just not at the same level as an RC or St. Regis in the equivalent level suite, indeed I'd only slightly prefer a suite at the IC over a base level room at the RC/St. Regis in a significant number of locations. A few
examples of this from the last year off the top of my head:
- IC Century City LA (One Bedroom Premium Suite) - high end of 4.5 star, not luxury; would rather have been at the RC but IC was cheaper
- IC Willard (Oval Suite) - 5 star, but not luxury; would rather have been at the RC but IC was cheaper
- IC ANA Tokyo (Junior Suite) - high end of 4 star, not luxury; would rather have been at the RC but IC was cheaper
- IC The Strings (One Bedroom Suite) - high end of 4.5 star, not luxury; would rather have been at the RC but IC was cheaper
- IC San Francisco (One Bedroom Suite) - 4.5 star, not luxury; would rather have been at the St. Regis but IC was cheape
IC Hong Kong is the only IC I've stayed in that even touches the luxury level. Willing to countenance that there are a few more that make it that I haven't stayed in (such as Le Grand), but far less than the percentage of
RC or St. Regis that I'd consider to be luxury hotels.
examples of this from the last year off the top of my head:
- IC Century City LA (One Bedroom Premium Suite) - high end of 4.5 star, not luxury; would rather have been at the RC but IC was cheaper
- IC Willard (Oval Suite) - 5 star, but not luxury; would rather have been at the RC but IC was cheaper
- IC ANA Tokyo (Junior Suite) - high end of 4 star, not luxury; would rather have been at the RC but IC was cheaper
- IC The Strings (One Bedroom Suite) - high end of 4.5 star, not luxury; would rather have been at the RC but IC was cheaper
- IC San Francisco (One Bedroom Suite) - 4.5 star, not luxury; would rather have been at the St. Regis but IC was cheape
IC Hong Kong is the only IC I've stayed in that even touches the luxury level. Willing to countenance that there are a few more that make it that I haven't stayed in (such as Le Grand), but far less than the percentage of
RC or St. Regis that I'd consider to be luxury hotels.
So, by your own admission, you don't wish to pay for the higher end
hotels. IC is your level. Don't worry about it!
Mar 15, 2017, 3:09 pm
#51
Join Date: Apr 2015
Programs: Some
Posts: 5,265
Not sure why this is pertinent, if anything it would add more weight to my suggestion that ICs are not luxury hotels that I stay at them with reasonable frequency. I'm not willing to pay twice the price to stay at an RC rather than an IC, but if they're both the same price I know where I'll generally choose to stay. I stay at hotels at pretty much all major hotel groups at levels from Hiltons to Aman, depending on where I feel is the best value for my needs on a particular stay.
Mar 17, 2017, 10:33 am
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: PARIS (France)
Programs: AF/KLM Club 2000 | InterContinental Diamond RA |AMEX Plat | Visa Infinite |Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 10,966
Mar 17, 2017, 10:44 am
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Not sure why this is pertinent, if anything it would add more weight to my suggestion that ICs are not luxury hotels that I stay at them with reasonable frequency. I'm not willing to pay twice the price to stay at an RC rather than an IC, but if they're both the same price I know where I'll generally choose to stay. I stay at hotels at pretty much all major hotel groups at levels from Hiltons to Aman, depending on where I feel is the best value for my needs on a particular stay.
But no more mega-mergers please.
Mar 22, 2017, 7:42 am
#54
In memoriam
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MAN
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium, IHG Spire, UA Silver, Dennis The Menace Fan Club
Posts: 1,457
My, we are getting our knickers in a knot about this.
Luxury hotels are to be found all over the world bearing a variety of names but Four Seasons, Mandarin Oriental, Ritz (but not Ritz Carlton) Rocco Forte and Rosewood are clear luxury brands. Ritz Carlton and St Regis claim to be luxury and whilst most properties probably are, there's a significant minority that definitely aren't.
IC occupies a space with Conrad, JW Marriott and Fairmont. Each have a few hotels that most definitely breathe that rarified luxury air, but most stick to brand standards and don't. RC and StR might claim luxury because most of their properties are, and maybe that can still work for them, but IC, Conrad and JWM can't, because most of their properties aren't. They're luxury-lite and as pointed out earlier, usually significantly cheaper than the true luxury brands.
The giant multi-segment chain hotel companies, IHG, Marriott and Hilton aren't generally very good at Luxury because it's not their focus, they focus on delivery of brand standards. Although they may claim (in the case of Marriott) a "spirit to serve" its tough to see how much service can be delivered in a 100-room Fairfield Inn with just 2 staff members on duty overnight. Defining differences between hotels by brand standards of service and room furnishing is vital to these companies, it is after all what separates a Holiday Inn Express from a Holiday Inn, and a Holiday Inn from a Crowne Plaza. Brand standards are essential to these chains, for instance, after Marriott's takeover of the (then) loss-making RC when JW Marriott toured an RC and was advised the hotel was losing hundreds of towels a year to "guest souvenir-hunting". He consulted the RC book and found nothing indicating they had to be Ritz-branded, and was shocked at the price Ritz was paying. His suggestion, cheaper, non-branded towels would eradicate the problem and save some money to staunch losses. So what if non branded cheap towels aren't luxury, they're not part of brand standards! This self same thinking follows through right here, today, in the latest unhappy thread concerning IC Club changes.
Even if IC was once "Luxury" its failed to maintain that outlook as part of the larger, multibranded IHG. In many ways it's blazed a trail that Ritz-Carlton and St Regis now struggle with, namely as part of a multibranded hotel group, stuck with hotels that are really no more than hangers-on-by-adherence-to-minimum-brand-standards that dilute these 2 supposed luxury brands.
As for elite upgrades contributing to a hotels luxury definition, that's just hogwash. You'll find many 4-star Crowne Plazas, Hiltons and Marriott's where as a top-tier member (Spire, Diamond or Platinum) you could score a truly awesome suite with sofas, multi tv's, soaking baths and separate showers, balconies and beautiful well kept lounges with great food and drink, that would undoubtably be a luxurious stay. Holiday Inns, Garden Inns and Courtyards also offer very spacious suites that greatly upgrade the stay experience there too, but none of this makes any of these brands luxury. And I would certainly agree, a lovely suite at most IC/Conrad/JWM would give a very luxurious stay, especially with Club thrown in, it still doesn't make them luxury brands.
So, no, IC is not a luxury brand, but there are a few luxury hotels hidden amongst its worldwide inventory, and even if you don't stay at those few gems (which are frequently much more expensive than the rest) if you can buy (or score for free)a suite upgrade at most ICs you'll often experience a real taste of luxury. None of this makes them luxury hotels. On the other hand, ICs are mostly noticeably cheaper than the local luxury brand anyway, which pretty effectively tells the story!
Luxury hotels are to be found all over the world bearing a variety of names but Four Seasons, Mandarin Oriental, Ritz (but not Ritz Carlton) Rocco Forte and Rosewood are clear luxury brands. Ritz Carlton and St Regis claim to be luxury and whilst most properties probably are, there's a significant minority that definitely aren't.
IC occupies a space with Conrad, JW Marriott and Fairmont. Each have a few hotels that most definitely breathe that rarified luxury air, but most stick to brand standards and don't. RC and StR might claim luxury because most of their properties are, and maybe that can still work for them, but IC, Conrad and JWM can't, because most of their properties aren't. They're luxury-lite and as pointed out earlier, usually significantly cheaper than the true luxury brands.
The giant multi-segment chain hotel companies, IHG, Marriott and Hilton aren't generally very good at Luxury because it's not their focus, they focus on delivery of brand standards. Although they may claim (in the case of Marriott) a "spirit to serve" its tough to see how much service can be delivered in a 100-room Fairfield Inn with just 2 staff members on duty overnight. Defining differences between hotels by brand standards of service and room furnishing is vital to these companies, it is after all what separates a Holiday Inn Express from a Holiday Inn, and a Holiday Inn from a Crowne Plaza. Brand standards are essential to these chains, for instance, after Marriott's takeover of the (then) loss-making RC when JW Marriott toured an RC and was advised the hotel was losing hundreds of towels a year to "guest souvenir-hunting". He consulted the RC book and found nothing indicating they had to be Ritz-branded, and was shocked at the price Ritz was paying. His suggestion, cheaper, non-branded towels would eradicate the problem and save some money to staunch losses. So what if non branded cheap towels aren't luxury, they're not part of brand standards! This self same thinking follows through right here, today, in the latest unhappy thread concerning IC Club changes.
Even if IC was once "Luxury" its failed to maintain that outlook as part of the larger, multibranded IHG. In many ways it's blazed a trail that Ritz-Carlton and St Regis now struggle with, namely as part of a multibranded hotel group, stuck with hotels that are really no more than hangers-on-by-adherence-to-minimum-brand-standards that dilute these 2 supposed luxury brands.
As for elite upgrades contributing to a hotels luxury definition, that's just hogwash. You'll find many 4-star Crowne Plazas, Hiltons and Marriott's where as a top-tier member (Spire, Diamond or Platinum) you could score a truly awesome suite with sofas, multi tv's, soaking baths and separate showers, balconies and beautiful well kept lounges with great food and drink, that would undoubtably be a luxurious stay. Holiday Inns, Garden Inns and Courtyards also offer very spacious suites that greatly upgrade the stay experience there too, but none of this makes any of these brands luxury. And I would certainly agree, a lovely suite at most IC/Conrad/JWM would give a very luxurious stay, especially with Club thrown in, it still doesn't make them luxury brands.
So, no, IC is not a luxury brand, but there are a few luxury hotels hidden amongst its worldwide inventory, and even if you don't stay at those few gems (which are frequently much more expensive than the rest) if you can buy (or score for free)a suite upgrade at most ICs you'll often experience a real taste of luxury. None of this makes them luxury hotels. On the other hand, ICs are mostly noticeably cheaper than the local luxury brand anyway, which pretty effectively tells the story!
Mar 22, 2017, 12:58 pm
#55
Moderator, Marriott Bonvoy & FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: McKinney, TX, USA
Programs: United Silver; AA Plat/2MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,727
My understanding of what Mr. Marriott suggested is a little different than yours. My understanding was that his recommendation was not to look for cheaper, non-branded towels. It was only to drop the "R" monogram on the towels. The same towels were still used as before. I do believe he also suggested they start selling the towels in the hotel store and put a card in the rooms letting people know if they liked the towels (or the robes) they could purchase them in the hotel store. I have never heard that Mr. Marriott recommended (or even implied) that they should compromise quality for profits at all.
Last edited by hhoope01; Mar 22, 2017 at 1:15 pm
Apr 12, 2018, 1:28 pm
#56
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: SPG, MR, WOH, HH, IHG
Posts: 43
IC properties in Asian cities
I think the price of the cheapest room says a lot about the property. So I've compiled a list of price of each hotel by cities.
Sample date - June 01-02, 2018
Sources - hotels.com.
If there is more than one same brand hotel in the cities, it gets number. Let's start with Japan.
Tokyo
Hoshinoya - $832
RC - $609
Conrad - $573
MO - $571
Peninsula - $511
PH - $501
SL - $477
FS - $463
Andaz - $459
GH - $384
LC - $377
HC - $337
HR - $281
Courtyard1 - $275
Hilton1 - $255
Hilton2 - $255
Westin - $253
Marriott - $243
Hilton3 - $224
IC1 - $218
Courtyard2 - $214
Mercure - $205
ibis - $201
Sheraton1 - $198
IC2 - $196
Sheraton2 - $194
IC3 - $194
Looks pretty bad for IC in Tokyo. Forget about MO, FS or something like that. It's more in line with Sheratons and Hiltons and 2 of 3 ICs fell behind even to the ibis!
Osaka
RC - $358
Conrad - $354
StR - $329
IC - $263
Swissotel - $221
Marriott - $213
Westin - $170
Courtyard - $165
Sheraton - $147
CP - $144
HI - $140
HR - $135
Things get better in Osaka. Can't say it's perfectly in line with leading group like RC, Conrad, StR but it's still far above from Westin/Sheraton/Courtyard.
Hong Kong
MO1 - $573
Peninsula - $558
FS - $522
RC - $436
MO2 - $433
SL1 - $303
W - $293
Conrad - $292
IC1 - $269
GH - $265
JW - $260
HR1 - $242
Renaissance - $217
CP1 - $204
SL2 - $195
Sheraton - $191
HI - $190
IC2 - $187
Novotel1 - $178
LM - $178
CP2 - $161
HR2 - $152
Garden Inn - $141
Courtyard1 - $138
Courtyard2 - $135
Novotel2 - $134
Novotel3 - $131
HIEX1 - $126
HIEX2 - $120
HIEX3 - $115
HIEX4 - $103
Definitely not in the leading group like MOs, Peninsula, FS, RC. At least one of the IC is in line with W/Conrad/JW/GH/HR. But the other IC is playing with Sheraton/HI/Novotel.
Seoul
Banyan Tree - $360
PH - $295
FS - $279
Conrad - $278
JW - $270
LM - $216 (formerly, RC)
IC1 - $207
Vista Walkerhill (formerly, W) - $207
GM - $205
Westin - $202
MEA - $195
Autograph Collection1 - $195
Sheraton1 - $183
GH - $183
Novotel Suites - $180
Grand Hilton - $178
Autograph Collection2 - $175
Courtyard1 - $173
IC2 - $172
Hilton - $171
FP - $164
Novotel1 - $164
Novotel2 - $154
Sheraton2 - $151
ibis Stlye1 - $141
Courtyard2 - $139
Grand Walkerhill (formerly, Sheraton) - $134
BWP1 - $128
Aloft - $117
FP - $112
Mercure - $111
BWP2 - $109
Design Hotel1 - $107
Design Hotel2 - $100
ibis Styles2 - $105
ibis - $104
ibis Style3 - $104
BWP3 - $98
HIEX - $92
BWP4 - $91
The relative position is pretty similar in Seoul but competing brands are at least one notch worse. There are two ICs close to each other and the better one is leading a pack of Grand Mercure/Westin/Le Meridien. The other one is playing with Hilton/Courtyard/Four Points/Novotel.
Singapore
FS - $412
RC - $331
StR - $316
MO - $305
W - $275
SL - $252
GH - $252
Sofitel Resort - $251
Andaz - $244
JW - $228
IC1 - $226
Sofitel - $214
Westin - $206
Fairmont - $205
LM - $188
Conrad - $175
IC2 - $169
HI1 - $168
Hilton - $162
Sheraton - $160
FS_R - $160
Courtyard - $159
HIEX1 - $141
Novotel1 - $139
Novotel2 - $136
HI2 - $130
HIEX2 - $122
Garden Inn - $115
Mercure1 - $113
Mercure2 - $108
GM - $107
HIEX3 - $103
In Singapore, the better one is still far behind from W/GH just like the JW. But it's in line with Andaz/JW/Sofitel/Westin and the worse one is playing with Le Meridien/Conrad/Holiday Inn/Hilton.
Dubai
Jumeirah1 - $1,620
Burj Al Arab - $1,041
One&Only - $463
Jumeirah2 - $440
FS1 - $427
Bulgari - $354
Jumeirah3 - $324
Jumeirah4 - $324
Armani - $286
Sofitel1 - $284
Jumeirah5 - $278
WA - $278
FS2 - $272
RC1 - $271
Westin1 - $265
Jumeirah6 - $255
RC Residence - $231
PH - $222
StR1 - $218
LM1 - $204
Raffles - $203
StR2 - $191
MEA1 - $191
RC2 - $150
LC1 - $150
LM2 - $149
LC2 - $149
Sofitel2 - $147
DoubleTree - $139
Marriott1 - $136
W - $131
Renaissance - $130
Sheraton1 - $130
Jumeirah7 - $128
Taj - $127
SL Residence - $123
JW1 - $120
IC1 - $120
Sofitel3 - $118
Hilton1 - $115
Hilton2 - $115
Conrad - $113
Sheraton2 - $113
Autograph Collection1 - $112
Westin2 - $109
SL - $104
Hilton3 - $102
IC2 - $98
RB1 - $98
RB2 - $98
Jumeirah8 - 97
MEA2 - $97
Autograph Collection2 - $97
HP1 - $96
Aloft - $93
DoubleTree - $93
GH - $89
Sheraton3 - $88
RB3 - $87
Swissotel1 - $84
JW2 - $82
IC3 - $81
MEA3 - $81
CP1 - $81
CP2 - $78
RB4 - $76
LM3 - $76
Swissotel2 - $76
Sheraton4 - $76
Marriott2 - $73
Novotel1 - $71
HR - $70
HI1 - $69
HP2 - $68
Novotel2 - $68
FP1 - $68
LM4 - $61
HP3 - $59
Mercure - $59
ibis Styles1 - $58
DoubleTree - $58
Garden Inn1 - $57
RB5 - $54
CP3 - $54
Novotel3 - $54
HI2 - $50
HIEX1 - $50
FP2 - $49
HIEX2 - $49
BWP - $46
HIEX3 - $46
HIEX4 - $45
ibis1 - $44
BW+ - $42
ibis2 - $42
HI3 - $42
Garden Inn2 - $41
Garden Inn3 - $41
ibis3 - $41
Mercure Gold - $41
ibis4 - $41
ibis Styles2 - $37
ibis5 - $36
ibis6 - $34
I would say it's perfectly in line with Sheraton in Dubai, just like JW.
Shanghai
Marriott - $455 (disregard this datapoint because there is only executive suite left for this date)
W - $332
PH - $320
FS1 - $318
WA - $312
MO - $303
RC1 - $294
Banyan Tree - $294
SL1 - $285
Sheraton Grand1 - $255
StR - $252
Marriott1 - $244
IC1 - $227
IC2 - $205
FS2 - $204
SL2 - $194
Hyatt - $193
JW1 - $191
LC1 - $179
Marriott2 - 178
Jumeirah - $166
RC2 - $163
HR - $158
Marriott3 - $158
Westin - $156
RB1 - $156
Marriott4 - $153
FP1 - $149
HI1 - $149
LM - $148
Renaissance1 - $147
IC3 - 144
HH1 - $140
Swissotel - $136
LM - $135
Renaissance2 - $134
RB2 - $134
HI2 - $131
Sofitel1 - $128
HI3 - $126
JW2 - $125
HP1 - $124
LC2 - $123
Courtyard1 - $119
SL3 - $118
CP1 - 117
DoubleTree - $117
CP2 - $116
Renaissance3 - $115
Renaissance4 - $115
HP2 - $114
CP3 - $112
Sheraton Grand2 - $112
Courtyard2 - $112
Marriott5 - $111
Sheraton1 - $110
HI4 - $108
RB3 - $108
Sofitel2 - $108
FP2 - $108
HH2 - $105
Mercure1 - $102
Courtyard3 - $100
Sheraton2 - $99
CP4 - $99
GM1 - $97
Courtyard4 - $96
CP5 - $95
Hilton - $91
HI5 - $90
Courtyard5 - $88
HI6 - $87
HP3 - $86
HIEX1 - $83
Renaissance5 - $83
HI7 - $82
Mercure2 - $80
Courtyard6 - $80
CP6 - $80
GM2 - $80
Novotel1 - $77
HIEX2 - $77
Garden Inn - $75
Courtyard7 - $74
HIEX3 - $74
HI8 - $72
Novotel2 - $69
Mercure3 - $69
HIEX4 - $68
HIEX5 - $62
HIEX6 - $61
HIEX7 - $60
HI9 - $57
HIEX8 - $57
HIEX9 - $56
ibis1 - $55
ibis2 - $53
ibis3 - $50
ibis4 - $49
ibis5 - $41
In Shanghai, two of Three ICs are located between the leading pack and the middle pack. The other IC fall back to its usual place.
Beijing
Bulgari - $369
IC2 - $364 (disregard this datapoint because there is only superior suite left. it should be somewhere around $200)
IC1 - $303
SL1 - $264
WA - $257
FS - $255
PH - $255
Peninsula - $232
Conrad - $217
Westin1 - $207
RC1 - $205
RC2 - $203
Hilton1 - $193
Hilton2 - $191
W - $191
StR - $191
GH - $182
Westin2 - $175
Renaissance1 - $167
Sheraton Grand - $158
CP1 - $150
JW - $147
Hilton3 - $143
SL2 - $140
FP - $137
Courtyard - $136
CP2 - $135
CP3 - $132
CP4 - $129
Renaissance - $129
SL3 - $129
CP5 - $128
HI1 - $119
CP6 - $118
DoubleTree - $116
HI2 - $106
ibis Styles - $100
RB - $99
HI3 - $92
Hi4 - $91
Mercure - $87
Novotel1 - $82
HIEX1 - $82
Novotel2 - $81
HIEX2 - $81
GM - $81
Novotel3 - $80
HI5 - $79
HIEX3 - $79
Swissotel - $78
HI6 - $77
Aloft - $75
HIEX4 - $73
HIEX5 - $73
ibis - $65
In Beijing, one of the IC is located unusually close to the top. The other one is a fluke but even the normal rate is still pretty high (higher than StR), considering the fact that worse IC is usually located nowhere close to the StR.
Sample date - June 01-02, 2018
Sources - hotels.com.
If there is more than one same brand hotel in the cities, it gets number. Let's start with Japan.
Tokyo
Hoshinoya - $832
RC - $609
Conrad - $573
MO - $571
Peninsula - $511
PH - $501
SL - $477
FS - $463
Andaz - $459
GH - $384
LC - $377
HC - $337
HR - $281
Courtyard1 - $275
Hilton1 - $255
Hilton2 - $255
Westin - $253
Marriott - $243
Hilton3 - $224
IC1 - $218
Courtyard2 - $214
Mercure - $205
ibis - $201
Sheraton1 - $198
IC2 - $196
Sheraton2 - $194
IC3 - $194
Looks pretty bad for IC in Tokyo. Forget about MO, FS or something like that. It's more in line with Sheratons and Hiltons and 2 of 3 ICs fell behind even to the ibis!
Osaka
RC - $358
Conrad - $354
StR - $329
IC - $263
Swissotel - $221
Marriott - $213
Westin - $170
Courtyard - $165
Sheraton - $147
CP - $144
HI - $140
HR - $135
Things get better in Osaka. Can't say it's perfectly in line with leading group like RC, Conrad, StR but it's still far above from Westin/Sheraton/Courtyard.
Hong Kong
MO1 - $573
Peninsula - $558
FS - $522
RC - $436
MO2 - $433
SL1 - $303
W - $293
Conrad - $292
IC1 - $269
GH - $265
JW - $260
HR1 - $242
Renaissance - $217
CP1 - $204
SL2 - $195
Sheraton - $191
HI - $190
IC2 - $187
Novotel1 - $178
LM - $178
CP2 - $161
HR2 - $152
Garden Inn - $141
Courtyard1 - $138
Courtyard2 - $135
Novotel2 - $134
Novotel3 - $131
HIEX1 - $126
HIEX2 - $120
HIEX3 - $115
HIEX4 - $103
Definitely not in the leading group like MOs, Peninsula, FS, RC. At least one of the IC is in line with W/Conrad/JW/GH/HR. But the other IC is playing with Sheraton/HI/Novotel.
Seoul
Banyan Tree - $360
PH - $295
FS - $279
Conrad - $278
JW - $270
LM - $216 (formerly, RC)
IC1 - $207
Vista Walkerhill (formerly, W) - $207
GM - $205
Westin - $202
MEA - $195
Autograph Collection1 - $195
Sheraton1 - $183
GH - $183
Novotel Suites - $180
Grand Hilton - $178
Autograph Collection2 - $175
Courtyard1 - $173
IC2 - $172
Hilton - $171
FP - $164
Novotel1 - $164
Novotel2 - $154
Sheraton2 - $151
ibis Stlye1 - $141
Courtyard2 - $139
Grand Walkerhill (formerly, Sheraton) - $134
BWP1 - $128
Aloft - $117
FP - $112
Mercure - $111
BWP2 - $109
Design Hotel1 - $107
Design Hotel2 - $100
ibis Styles2 - $105
ibis - $104
ibis Style3 - $104
BWP3 - $98
HIEX - $92
BWP4 - $91
The relative position is pretty similar in Seoul but competing brands are at least one notch worse. There are two ICs close to each other and the better one is leading a pack of Grand Mercure/Westin/Le Meridien. The other one is playing with Hilton/Courtyard/Four Points/Novotel.
Singapore
FS - $412
RC - $331
StR - $316
MO - $305
W - $275
SL - $252
GH - $252
Sofitel Resort - $251
Andaz - $244
JW - $228
IC1 - $226
Sofitel - $214
Westin - $206
Fairmont - $205
LM - $188
Conrad - $175
IC2 - $169
HI1 - $168
Hilton - $162
Sheraton - $160
FS_R - $160
Courtyard - $159
HIEX1 - $141
Novotel1 - $139
Novotel2 - $136
HI2 - $130
HIEX2 - $122
Garden Inn - $115
Mercure1 - $113
Mercure2 - $108
GM - $107
HIEX3 - $103
In Singapore, the better one is still far behind from W/GH just like the JW. But it's in line with Andaz/JW/Sofitel/Westin and the worse one is playing with Le Meridien/Conrad/Holiday Inn/Hilton.
Dubai
Jumeirah1 - $1,620
Burj Al Arab - $1,041
One&Only - $463
Jumeirah2 - $440
FS1 - $427
Bulgari - $354
Jumeirah3 - $324
Jumeirah4 - $324
Armani - $286
Sofitel1 - $284
Jumeirah5 - $278
WA - $278
FS2 - $272
RC1 - $271
Westin1 - $265
Jumeirah6 - $255
RC Residence - $231
PH - $222
StR1 - $218
LM1 - $204
Raffles - $203
StR2 - $191
MEA1 - $191
RC2 - $150
LC1 - $150
LM2 - $149
LC2 - $149
Sofitel2 - $147
DoubleTree - $139
Marriott1 - $136
W - $131
Renaissance - $130
Sheraton1 - $130
Jumeirah7 - $128
Taj - $127
SL Residence - $123
JW1 - $120
IC1 - $120
Sofitel3 - $118
Hilton1 - $115
Hilton2 - $115
Conrad - $113
Sheraton2 - $113
Autograph Collection1 - $112
Westin2 - $109
SL - $104
Hilton3 - $102
IC2 - $98
RB1 - $98
RB2 - $98
Jumeirah8 - 97
MEA2 - $97
Autograph Collection2 - $97
HP1 - $96
Aloft - $93
DoubleTree - $93
GH - $89
Sheraton3 - $88
RB3 - $87
Swissotel1 - $84
JW2 - $82
IC3 - $81
MEA3 - $81
CP1 - $81
CP2 - $78
RB4 - $76
LM3 - $76
Swissotel2 - $76
Sheraton4 - $76
Marriott2 - $73
Novotel1 - $71
HR - $70
HI1 - $69
HP2 - $68
Novotel2 - $68
FP1 - $68
LM4 - $61
HP3 - $59
Mercure - $59
ibis Styles1 - $58
DoubleTree - $58
Garden Inn1 - $57
RB5 - $54
CP3 - $54
Novotel3 - $54
HI2 - $50
HIEX1 - $50
FP2 - $49
HIEX2 - $49
BWP - $46
HIEX3 - $46
HIEX4 - $45
ibis1 - $44
BW+ - $42
ibis2 - $42
HI3 - $42
Garden Inn2 - $41
Garden Inn3 - $41
ibis3 - $41
Mercure Gold - $41
ibis4 - $41
ibis Styles2 - $37
ibis5 - $36
ibis6 - $34
I would say it's perfectly in line with Sheraton in Dubai, just like JW.
Shanghai
Marriott - $455 (disregard this datapoint because there is only executive suite left for this date)
W - $332
PH - $320
FS1 - $318
WA - $312
MO - $303
RC1 - $294
Banyan Tree - $294
SL1 - $285
Sheraton Grand1 - $255
StR - $252
Marriott1 - $244
IC1 - $227
IC2 - $205
FS2 - $204
SL2 - $194
Hyatt - $193
JW1 - $191
LC1 - $179
Marriott2 - 178
Jumeirah - $166
RC2 - $163
HR - $158
Marriott3 - $158
Westin - $156
RB1 - $156
Marriott4 - $153
FP1 - $149
HI1 - $149
LM - $148
Renaissance1 - $147
IC3 - 144
HH1 - $140
Swissotel - $136
LM - $135
Renaissance2 - $134
RB2 - $134
HI2 - $131
Sofitel1 - $128
HI3 - $126
JW2 - $125
HP1 - $124
LC2 - $123
Courtyard1 - $119
SL3 - $118
CP1 - 117
DoubleTree - $117
CP2 - $116
Renaissance3 - $115
Renaissance4 - $115
HP2 - $114
CP3 - $112
Sheraton Grand2 - $112
Courtyard2 - $112
Marriott5 - $111
Sheraton1 - $110
HI4 - $108
RB3 - $108
Sofitel2 - $108
FP2 - $108
HH2 - $105
Mercure1 - $102
Courtyard3 - $100
Sheraton2 - $99
CP4 - $99
GM1 - $97
Courtyard4 - $96
CP5 - $95
Hilton - $91
HI5 - $90
Courtyard5 - $88
HI6 - $87
HP3 - $86
HIEX1 - $83
Renaissance5 - $83
HI7 - $82
Mercure2 - $80
Courtyard6 - $80
CP6 - $80
GM2 - $80
Novotel1 - $77
HIEX2 - $77
Garden Inn - $75
Courtyard7 - $74
HIEX3 - $74
HI8 - $72
Novotel2 - $69
Mercure3 - $69
HIEX4 - $68
HIEX5 - $62
HIEX6 - $61
HIEX7 - $60
HI9 - $57
HIEX8 - $57
HIEX9 - $56
ibis1 - $55
ibis2 - $53
ibis3 - $50
ibis4 - $49
ibis5 - $41
In Shanghai, two of Three ICs are located between the leading pack and the middle pack. The other IC fall back to its usual place.
Beijing
Bulgari - $369
IC2 - $364 (disregard this datapoint because there is only superior suite left. it should be somewhere around $200)
IC1 - $303
SL1 - $264
WA - $257
FS - $255
PH - $255
Peninsula - $232
Conrad - $217
Westin1 - $207
RC1 - $205
RC2 - $203
Hilton1 - $193
Hilton2 - $191
W - $191
StR - $191
GH - $182
Westin2 - $175
Renaissance1 - $167
Sheraton Grand - $158
CP1 - $150
JW - $147
Hilton3 - $143
SL2 - $140
FP - $137
Courtyard - $136
CP2 - $135
CP3 - $132
CP4 - $129
Renaissance - $129
SL3 - $129
CP5 - $128
HI1 - $119
CP6 - $118
DoubleTree - $116
HI2 - $106
ibis Styles - $100
RB - $99
HI3 - $92
Hi4 - $91
Mercure - $87
Novotel1 - $82
HIEX1 - $82
Novotel2 - $81
HIEX2 - $81
GM - $81
Novotel3 - $80
HI5 - $79
HIEX3 - $79
Swissotel - $78
HI6 - $77
Aloft - $75
HIEX4 - $73
HIEX5 - $73
ibis - $65
In Beijing, one of the IC is located unusually close to the top. The other one is a fluke but even the normal rate is still pretty high (higher than StR), considering the fact that worse IC is usually located nowhere close to the StR.
Apr 12, 2018, 3:04 pm
#57
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: SPG, MR, WOH, HH, IHG
Posts: 43
IC properties in the US
New York
RC - $1,095
FS1 - $995
PH - $900
MO - $895
Plaza - $845
FS2 - $800
JW - $752
Peninsula - $676
LC - $595
Taj - $574
W1 - $529
Conrad - $415
Hilton1 - $395
Courtyard1 - $389
Andaz1 - $360
Marriott1 - $359
DoubleTree1 - $350
EDITION - $340
W2 - $334
Courtyard2 - $329
Westin1 - $324
IC1 - $316
Hilton2 - $314
Hyatt1 - $305
Renaissance1 - $305
W3 - $299
Sofitel - $299
HP1 - $299
Courtyard3 - $297
FP1 - $290
FP2 - $289
Novotel - $289
Garden Inn1 - $289
HIEX1 - $288
HH - $279
Hilton3 - $276
RB - $276
Sheraton1 - $275
CP1 - $272
HIEX2 - $270
Marriott2 - $269
DoubleTree2 - $269
Aloft1 - $269
CP2 - $269
Westin2 - $269
W3 - $269
Hilton4 - $268
Garden Inn2 - $264
Courtyard4 - $263
Garden Inn3 - $260
Hyatt2 - $259
CP3 - $257
HH - $256
HP2 - $256
IC2 - $255
BW+ - $255
Courtyard5 - $254
DoubleTree3 - $254
Sheraton2 - $254
Garden Inn4 - $252
DoubleTree4 - $251
HP3 - $251
Element - $249
Aloft2 - $249
Garden Inn5 - $249
W4 - $249
Garden Inn6 - $249
Courtyard6 - $246
Hilton5 - $245
Garden Inn7 - $242
HIEX3 - $242
HP4 - $239
Renaissance2 - $237
Courtyard7 - $237
Andaz2 - $235
GH - $234
Garden Inn8 - $233
HI1 - $230
HIEX4 - $230
BWP - $229
FP3 - $229
Courtyard8 - $229
Westin3 - $229
DoubleTree5 - $227
HI2 - $225
Aloft3 - $224
Courtyard9 - $220
Courtyard10 - $220
Aloft3 - $219
Garden Inn9 - $219
Garden Inn10 - $219
HIEX5 - $216
BW1 - $215
Sheraton3 - $215
HR - $214
BW2 - $213
HIEX6 - $212
Courtyard11 - $212
FP4 - $210
Sheraton4 - $209
HI3 - $207
Garden Inn11 - $206
HI4 - $206
DoubleTree6 - $206
Hilton6 - $203
In New York where luxury properties usually hover around $1k, ICs can never claim that they're, in fact, a true luxury property with its $250-300 price tag, which is perfectly in line with (higher end of) Hyatt/Sheraton/Hilton/Marriott.
Los Angeles
Beverly Hills Hotel - $845
Montage Beverly Hills - $765
WA - $725
LC - $647
FS1 - $645
FS2 - $615
Peninsula - $605
Hotel Bel-Air - $585
RC1 - $509
Sheraton4 - $499 (disregard this datapoint since it usually hover around $150)
RC2 - $479
FS3 - $459
JW - $439
SL - $396
HC - $389
Courtyard1 - $384
Andaz - $369
IC1 - $340
DoubleTree1 - $328
W1 - $322
LM - $320
Sofitel - $309
W2 - $305
Garden Inn1 - $299
Westin1 - $289
BW+1 - $289
JW - $279
IC2 - $277
HIEX1 - $275
Courtyard2 - $269
Sheraton1 - $267
BW+2 - $266
Marriott1 - $259
Marriott2 - $259
HR - $249
Courtyard3 - $249
Garden Inn2 - $247
BW - $239
SpringHills Suite - $239
Westin2 - $229
HI - $229
Garden Inn3 - $229
BW+3 - $229
DoubleTree2 - $224
HH - $222
Hilton - $221
Sheraton2 - $219
Sheraton3 - $219
HP - $219
HIEX2 - $212
BW+4 - $209
HIEX3 - $209
CP - $207
HIEX4 - $204
Sheraton4 - $204
Sheraton5 - $199
Nowhere near the top end in Los Angeles too, but sits slightly higher than Sheraton/Marriott.
Chicago (changed the sample date to Apr 26-27, due to weird price of many properties)
RC - $579
LC - $539
Langham - $450
Peninsula - $405
Sofitel - $404
FS - $400
Marriott1 - $339
Marriott2 - $329
WA - $326
PH - $325
Trump - $319
W1 - $309
Westin1 - $299
Hilton1 - $296
HP1 - $296
Marriott3 - $295
Autograph Collection1 - $289
HP - $289
Renaissance - $289
W2 - $278
Westin2 - $277
HC1 - $268
Sheraton Grand - $265
HC2 - $260
Westin3 - $259
Marriott4 - $254
RB - $252
Courtyard1 - $249
Hilton2 - $242
IC - $242
Conrad - $220
Garden Inn1 - $212
Garden Inn2 - $210
Autograph Collection2 - $209
HR1 - $209
Hilton3 - $208
Hilton4 - $207
Garden Inn3 - $200
HP2 - $199
Swissotel - $195
HI - $194
BW+ - $190
Renaissance1 - $188
Sheraton - $187
Aloft1 - $185
HP3 - $179
HR2 - $179
Garden Inn4 - $179
Renaissance2 - $179
CP1 - $178
Hyatt1 - $177
Courtyard2 - $174
Courtyard3 - $173
Marriott5 - $170
Aloft2 - $169
LM - $169
Hyatt2 - $169
DoubleTree - $166
HIEX - $162
Hilton5 - $160
HR3 - $158
CP2 - $153
HP4 - $151
Only one IC here, far behind from leading pack of Westin/Hilton/Marriott/etc.
And the situation is pretty similar across the US(SF/Miami/Dallas/Austin/etc), far from top end, right next to (higher end of) Westin/Sheraton/Marriott/Hilton/Hyatt. Maybe it's doing a little bit better on DC or Atlanta but IC rarely is close to top end luxury property (and almost never belongs to top end). Same goes for EU, Oceania and famous resort area around the globe.
RC - $1,095
FS1 - $995
PH - $900
MO - $895
Plaza - $845
FS2 - $800
JW - $752
Peninsula - $676
LC - $595
Taj - $574
W1 - $529
Conrad - $415
Hilton1 - $395
Courtyard1 - $389
Andaz1 - $360
Marriott1 - $359
DoubleTree1 - $350
EDITION - $340
W2 - $334
Courtyard2 - $329
Westin1 - $324
IC1 - $316
Hilton2 - $314
Hyatt1 - $305
Renaissance1 - $305
W3 - $299
Sofitel - $299
HP1 - $299
Courtyard3 - $297
FP1 - $290
FP2 - $289
Novotel - $289
Garden Inn1 - $289
HIEX1 - $288
HH - $279
Hilton3 - $276
RB - $276
Sheraton1 - $275
CP1 - $272
HIEX2 - $270
Marriott2 - $269
DoubleTree2 - $269
Aloft1 - $269
CP2 - $269
Westin2 - $269
W3 - $269
Hilton4 - $268
Garden Inn2 - $264
Courtyard4 - $263
Garden Inn3 - $260
Hyatt2 - $259
CP3 - $257
HH - $256
HP2 - $256
IC2 - $255
BW+ - $255
Courtyard5 - $254
DoubleTree3 - $254
Sheraton2 - $254
Garden Inn4 - $252
DoubleTree4 - $251
HP3 - $251
Element - $249
Aloft2 - $249
Garden Inn5 - $249
W4 - $249
Garden Inn6 - $249
Courtyard6 - $246
Hilton5 - $245
Garden Inn7 - $242
HIEX3 - $242
HP4 - $239
Renaissance2 - $237
Courtyard7 - $237
Andaz2 - $235
GH - $234
Garden Inn8 - $233
HI1 - $230
HIEX4 - $230
BWP - $229
FP3 - $229
Courtyard8 - $229
Westin3 - $229
DoubleTree5 - $227
HI2 - $225
Aloft3 - $224
Courtyard9 - $220
Courtyard10 - $220
Aloft3 - $219
Garden Inn9 - $219
Garden Inn10 - $219
HIEX5 - $216
BW1 - $215
Sheraton3 - $215
HR - $214
BW2 - $213
HIEX6 - $212
Courtyard11 - $212
FP4 - $210
Sheraton4 - $209
HI3 - $207
Garden Inn11 - $206
HI4 - $206
DoubleTree6 - $206
Hilton6 - $203
In New York where luxury properties usually hover around $1k, ICs can never claim that they're, in fact, a true luxury property with its $250-300 price tag, which is perfectly in line with (higher end of) Hyatt/Sheraton/Hilton/Marriott.
Los Angeles
Beverly Hills Hotel - $845
Montage Beverly Hills - $765
WA - $725
LC - $647
FS1 - $645
FS2 - $615
Peninsula - $605
Hotel Bel-Air - $585
RC1 - $509
Sheraton4 - $499 (disregard this datapoint since it usually hover around $150)
RC2 - $479
FS3 - $459
JW - $439
SL - $396
HC - $389
Courtyard1 - $384
Andaz - $369
IC1 - $340
DoubleTree1 - $328
W1 - $322
LM - $320
Sofitel - $309
W2 - $305
Garden Inn1 - $299
Westin1 - $289
BW+1 - $289
JW - $279
IC2 - $277
HIEX1 - $275
Courtyard2 - $269
Sheraton1 - $267
BW+2 - $266
Marriott1 - $259
Marriott2 - $259
HR - $249
Courtyard3 - $249
Garden Inn2 - $247
BW - $239
SpringHills Suite - $239
Westin2 - $229
HI - $229
Garden Inn3 - $229
BW+3 - $229
DoubleTree2 - $224
HH - $222
Hilton - $221
Sheraton2 - $219
Sheraton3 - $219
HP - $219
HIEX2 - $212
BW+4 - $209
HIEX3 - $209
CP - $207
HIEX4 - $204
Sheraton4 - $204
Sheraton5 - $199
Nowhere near the top end in Los Angeles too, but sits slightly higher than Sheraton/Marriott.
Chicago (changed the sample date to Apr 26-27, due to weird price of many properties)
RC - $579
LC - $539
Langham - $450
Peninsula - $405
Sofitel - $404
FS - $400
Marriott1 - $339
Marriott2 - $329
WA - $326
PH - $325
Trump - $319
W1 - $309
Westin1 - $299
Hilton1 - $296
HP1 - $296
Marriott3 - $295
Autograph Collection1 - $289
HP - $289
Renaissance - $289
W2 - $278
Westin2 - $277
HC1 - $268
Sheraton Grand - $265
HC2 - $260
Westin3 - $259
Marriott4 - $254
RB - $252
Courtyard1 - $249
Hilton2 - $242
IC - $242
Conrad - $220
Garden Inn1 - $212
Garden Inn2 - $210
Autograph Collection2 - $209
HR1 - $209
Hilton3 - $208
Hilton4 - $207
Garden Inn3 - $200
HP2 - $199
Swissotel - $195
HI - $194
BW+ - $190
Renaissance1 - $188
Sheraton - $187
Aloft1 - $185
HP3 - $179
HR2 - $179
Garden Inn4 - $179
Renaissance2 - $179
CP1 - $178
Hyatt1 - $177
Courtyard2 - $174
Courtyard3 - $173
Marriott5 - $170
Aloft2 - $169
LM - $169
Hyatt2 - $169
DoubleTree - $166
HIEX - $162
Hilton5 - $160
HR3 - $158
CP2 - $153
HP4 - $151
Only one IC here, far behind from leading pack of Westin/Hilton/Marriott/etc.
And the situation is pretty similar across the US(SF/Miami/Dallas/Austin/etc), far from top end, right next to (higher end of) Westin/Sheraton/Marriott/Hilton/Hyatt. Maybe it's doing a little bit better on DC or Atlanta but IC rarely is close to top end luxury property (and almost never belongs to top end). Same goes for EU, Oceania and famous resort area around the globe.
Apr 13, 2018, 1:37 pm
#58
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
