SuperFlyBoy

Any clarification on whether a conversion to OCI from a PIO is *required*??

We are planning to travel over Xmas, returning to India in early Jan...

B747-437B

No, it is not *REQUIRED*. There has now been a definitive statement to that effect.

http://www.mea.gov.in/oci-related-matters.htm

desi

As a PIO card holder, if one crosses age 50 and gets new US/UK/Canadian passport, does one has to get new card now that PIO is deemed equivalent to OCI?

SuperFlyBoy

Thanks for the link.

But the question is now how much are we going to be hassled if we do not do it?

I was already "warned" earlier in the year about it - what repercussions could there be?

emcampbe

I know you need to replace OCI at a certain age, not sure about PIO.

However, a PIO isn't really deemed 'equivilant' - PIOs are being deemed valid for 'lifelong' supposedly - only those that existed prior to the change. The change was no new PIOs will be issued - if you need to get another one, you need to get an OCI.

Based on feedback here, it seems like some officers, and I know my experience in talking to CKGS, was that you need an OCI. I got one, because the hassle of applying for an OCI from a PIO once was likely going to be less then the likely hassle I'd get for using a PIO to enter everytime going forward (you need to switch to PIO, etc.), plus I knew it was just a small fee compared to doing it for full price later. Of course, all this is based on the fact they don't change the rules again - but good luck with that.

desi

Based on posts here, it seems it is better to hold on to PIO card unless conversion is going to be mandatory and more difficult in future.

Because OCI has that age 50 nuisance.

oliver2002

Collected the two OCI cards for my sons on Dec 30. Only to discover the PIO/OCI conversion scheme has been extended by another 6 months.

Renewal: lets see. My older sons passport expires when he turns 12 (2019), mine is due to expire 2020, my wifes 2019/20. None of us will be 50 then either.

PS: when I took out the old PIO cards of my sons (issued Oct 2014) I noticed they were delaminating rapidly especially the critical first page.

Venkat65

Like everything else which GOI makes or touches , it is complicated beyond what it should .
First those of you who say that they are the same , it is not. Modi announced that the dead line is extended without penalty till june . This will mean like everything else made in India , will be enforced with force - Remember Sanjay Gandhi and Family planning. Everything comes like that. I spend months trying to fill my daughters forms and sending them across. Took over 10 days for CKGS to update the website with notification that the documents were received. I had to call them to confirm. They even denied that I sent it and then I sent them the acknowledgement copy.

oliver2002

Sanjay Gandhis family planning scheme was nearly 40 years ago in a completely different era. Why the association?

GUWonder

Government proclaims a crisis and puts forward a solution in the best interests of the ordinary person and then uses coercive means -- legal or extra-legal -- to pursue the objective in delivering on the solution.

oliver2002

PIO to OCI conversion is entirely voluntary? At most you will get a stupid comment at immigration which you could mitigate by printing out the relevant gazette notification.

The forced sterilisation program was during the 1975-77 emergency when civil rights were suspended. It was as close as India had come to a dictatorship and I'm proud of the fact that democracy finally prevailed.

Till 2002 NRIs who had accepted another citizenship were left in a legal grey zone, the PIO scheme and now the OCI card is slowly fixing that. Its far from perfect, but I would not venture to compare it to the 1975-77 emergency atrocities.

GUWonder

Even before 2002, NRIs who accepted/maintained non-Indian citizenship as adults were never left in a legal grey zone by India over citizenship and residency status allowances. Legally, they all were neither NRIs nor Indian citizens of any sort; they were foreign citizens with Indian heritages, many of whom chose when and how to appear to be NRIs or RIs as they found suitable for a given circumstance without consideration for the existing body law in India.

PIO to OCI conversion is indeed still voluntary AFAIK, but there may still be some issues when trying to do PIO to OCI that do put people in a legal grey zone.

oliver2002

Well, my point mainly related to the fact that when a NRI became a foreign citizen, s/he automatically lost the right to own property in India or access to banking. Since 2002 all you need is to produce a PIO/OCI card and you are good to go. Comparing the ease with which I opened a bank account and became owner of various intangibles last year to the troubles we had in the 80s and 90s with my mother trying to do normal things at banks and in matters relating to property (in spite of showing a valid residence permit and documentation etc) its night and day.

GUWonder

NRIs who became foreign citizens prior to 2002 didn't all lose the legal right to own immovable property in India. I'll have to check with what the pre-2002 legal status of bank account and bank lockers were for those who went from being NRIs to being foreign citizens, but for immovable property and even movable, titled property, it wasn't as grey as perceived by a lot of lay folk and even some others who could have known better but didn't.

Is it fair to say that your mother didn't get commonly perceived to be of an ethnic Indian origin? Indians giving a tougher time to perceived foreigners regardless of the law still continues, as with the hassles many a person from NE border states, Ladakh and Kashmir can attest to when having visited say the Taj Mahal and trying to use the Indian ticket pricing as resident Indians even within the past 12 months.

For NRIs and foreign citizen persons perceived to be of Indian ethnic origin, things in India have gotten easier indeed; but some of that is due to the mushrooming numbers of such people leading to Indians' increased exposure to how to handle such matters; and a lot of that is due to the OCI scheme even more than just to the PIO scheme.

desi

There was absolutely no issues for US Passport holder to open FCNR or NRE or NRO account in mid nineties.

GUWonder point is right on the money. The change is more due to mushrooming of such transactions and removal of fear associated with anything "forex".

One disadvantage of OCI is that one has to undergo the brutal process all over again once you cross 50 and get new foreign passport. If someone is at age 49, I would strongly recommend waiting until age 50 to convert PIO to OCI.