Just entered with PIO - no questions asked.

There is no such thing as PIO card anymore - all PIO cards are automatically converted to and considered to be OCI cards. Therefore, you entered with an OCI card that just happened to have PIO written on the front. The PIO card is no longer valid for travel.

My wife is a valid PIO holder. We plan to travel to India in June 2016. Return date is July 11th.
Does the PIO becomes and invalid document after 30/06/2016
OR
30/06/2016 is the deadline to file an application for OCI (in exchange/lieu for PIO).

Can my wife travel to India on valid PIO or she needs to apply for tourist visa?

Thanks

She can continue to travel to/from India with her existing PIO card. No need to do anything.

There is no such thing as a valid PIO card any more. All former PIO cards are now converted to OCI cards and remain valid for use as OCI cards.

The deadline is only if you want to change the former PIO card into a card that actually says OCI for free. At this time, there is no benefit to doing that.

Leaving DEL on April 22, the officer suddenly told me 'you have to get an OCI, starting June this PIO card is invalid' :rolleyes:

^^^ In March, I had similar experience at Mumbai Airport. Immigration officer told me to get OCI.On returning, I did a checked online and decided to apply for OCI.

Hopeful this is useful for someone wanting to apply in future.

OCI in lieu of PIO

I applied for OCI in lieu of PIO, learnt a few things. I did 3 trips to VFS to finally submit.

Counter staff said people do 4 trips and still documents is not accepted.

VFS will contact if any more information is required, takes about 6 -8 weeks. Will receive a PIO style card.

Online application

Be prepared with documents - passport, pio card, know your indian address, age of father, mother or any other close relative, photos scanned, signature photo , documents scanned.

The website landing pages says application photo should be 2x2 inches and signature photo should be 1:3

After login, The maths and science knowledge of the applicant is tested. Like what is the colour of sun? Which number is greater 1 or 7?

Part A, B is ok, photo should be less than 30kb {Tip: use Ms Paint, worked for me} . Part C -pdf documents should be less than 500kb.

Initially you get a temporary registration number and on completion an application number.

Its comes in the email, in my case when i filled the partially completed form, i received email with details with registration number.

Documents submission:

- Application Photo - 2x2 inches - if you are taking photo, remind the person it's for India. Scan and use the same to upload. Saves hassle later.

- Signature photo - Photo of your signature, Size - 3:1, { Tip : signature on blank paper and take photo with mobile if you have good resolution}.

I provided these documents

- Application form ( print after filling online) with 1 photo thats fits the size of the box and sign under.
- Application Checklist
- Form U { hand written}
- Foreign Passport - 1 copy
- Citizenship Certificate (in case of Australia) - 1 copy {Self Attested}
- Old Indian passport - 1 copy {Photo page, any observation and cancellation of citizenship, last page}
- PIO card - 1 copy {photo page, observation, last page}
- If married / divorced, they may ask for certificate - 1 copy {notarised }
- If name is different in any document { statutory declaration- notarised}

I signed all the documents in front of staff. After having submitted my documents, felt like I passed exam when the papers got accepted. :lol:

^^^ After applying on 13th May, Received OCI card within 42 days.

https://s32.postimg.cc/q81xykl7p/20160620_170810.jpg

Confusion continues.

Wife and her mother both arrived in Delhi with the erstwhile PIO cards. Both cards have now been endorsed as "LIFETIME VALIDITY" by High Commission of India in Lilongwe, which has also confirmed that there is no need to make a switch to OCI card.

At adjacent immigration desks, one officer said that the erstwhile PIO card was no longer valid and the other officer said that it was. Argument ensued between the two officers. One eventually rummaged through some papers and found a circular which satisfied both of them and everyone was allowed to pass.

When asked, they advised that "for now" there is no mandatory requirement to convert to a physical OCI card anytime, but that there has been a requirement multiple times in the past which has been superceded and/or revoked, so there is no definitive answer as to what should be done for the future.

Would be great to get hold of that circular.@:-)

The CGI in SF has a nice text published on their website:

http://www.cgisf.org/page/display/30/231

I was just warned that I would have to convert/obtain an OCI based on the PIO before the "end of the year"? by the exit immigration officer...

If I didn't do it by the end of the year, then I would have to "pay for it".

So, according to him, it was free until the "end of the year" to convert to OCI...

Yep, in preparation for my trip to CCU later this month via China I double checked the situation with my local CGI. Its seems the MHA has now announced that the conversion is free and you should do it till end of the year. So I bit the bullet and tried the process. Unlike koresh in the US, here you just fill in the form online, print it, attach self attested copies of the PIO card and passport to the form with the picture and mail it to the local CGI. A week later I got a notification from the 'helpdesk-oci' @gov.in that the application was complete and the online status tracker showed it was queued for printing. ^

No fees charged at all. ^

If its the end of the year now, that's another deadline extension. Believe it was originally May, then June, now appears to be the end of the year. When I last went to India in Dec, was told my the officer that I should move to OCI - and he didn't stamp my PIO with lifetime validity, as I was told should have happened.

IMO, I got it done in the spring. Maybe I could continue to use my PIO, but honestly, have no interest in getting into a debate when I come into India next time, or the time after that, or the time after that. Who knows even who long this policy will last - for all I know as someone not born in India, they'll make me apply for something else in a couple of years down the line, and my 'lifetime' OCI won't work anymore.

It was a bit of a PITA, but it was done, and know I don't have to do it anymore. Done through Cox and Kings in the US - only cost was the ~$30, maybe less, 'processing fee' from C&K and shipping costs.

I'm more concerned with some airline employee deciding I can't travel to India (or rather board the plane) because they don't understand the finer points of the PIOCI card conundrum :eek:

Never bothered with a PIO card as I went straight in with an OCI card.

I realised it was nothing more than a glorified lifetime visa the moment they pasted your foreign nationality and foreign passport onto the certificate, and that you still needed to travel with your foreign passport and that it would still be stamped on and out of India.

But the pain free travel to India for 10 years and counting has been totally worth it..........who can remember the days when you had to apply for visas resulting in a very early morning to wait in line for hours so that we got a taste of Mata Bharat's paperwork and officialdom at the consular and visa section at your local mission?

If you got OCI card at age over 50, it is truly (so far) life long. Even if you live up to 100 (aout 50 years after getting it), there is no "security concerns"

If you get OCI in your early 20s, there is no "security concerns" for next 25 or so years.

But if you got it at say age 49, very next year "security concern" starts. Of course, it can wait until you get new US passport but once you get new US passport, this suppposedly lifelong OCI card is no longer valid. You have to get new one issued (By INdia ministry, consulate/agency here in US cant re-issue it)

No sensible explanation has ever been provided by idiots in Indian govt, (Congress or BJP) for this idiotic requirement. PM Modi was given heads up about this during his meeting with NRI leaders during his NYC visit but there is no sign of "achhe din" on this topic.

Had an interesting experience this week. I had applied or the OCI card early July and mailed my paperwork to the local CGI who put the process into motion in late July. I was in China before coming to India and saw that my OCI card had been apparently printed and dispatched that week.

When I arrived in CCU the officer was confused. My passport number had already been associated to the new OCI card, but I had a PIO card with me. He understood what had happened, but had no way to please the system to let me into the country without scanning the OCI card. :p A colleague showed him how to override that and I was let into the country.

Last night when leaving DEL the same problem. Computer says I have an OCI and wants to see it. Again BoI officer has to employ a trick to override the system.

Re clueless airline employees: in KMG the MU checkin agents were clueless what a PIO card was. 'You Indian?' 'This not OCI card, you need Visa' etc. In the end the supervisor OKed me to board.

Had a similar issue. Arrived in India on my second passport which had been pasted with a very specific visa. The Immigration Officer was flummoxed as to what to do. 20 minutes later he blurted out his frustration on me and asked why I had got a visa when I had an OCI!

The answer to that is because the Indian authorities do not recognise my OCI for the specific purpose of entry!

Defeats the whole point of being "Multi-Entry, Multi-Purpose, Lifelong Visa".

Where in India are you going, and what are you doing that has you getting a special category visa? Just curious what your honesty is getting you beside just the frustration of that immigration officer. :D

It's my employer. They insist for insurance and staff safety purposes that I obtain the visa. I did say that as an OCI holder, the Indians would never bat an eyelid but they point blank turned me down on travelling with just OCI.

After all, the UK is the land of High Viz bibs and jackets!

Any clarification on whether a conversion to OCI from a PIO is *required*??

We are planning to travel over Xmas, returning to India in early Jan...

No, it is not *REQUIRED*. There has now been a definitive statement to that effect.

http://www.mea.gov.in/oci-related-matters.htm

As a PIO card holder, if one crosses age 50 and gets new US/UK/Canadian passport, does one has to get new card now that PIO is deemed equivalent to OCI?

Thanks for the link.

But the question is now how much are we going to be hassled if we do not do it?

I was already "warned" earlier in the year about it - what repercussions could there be?

I know you need to replace OCI at a certain age, not sure about PIO.

However, a PIO isn't really deemed 'equivilant' - PIOs are being deemed valid for 'lifelong' supposedly - only those that existed prior to the change. The change was no new PIOs will be issued - if you need to get another one, you need to get an OCI.

Based on feedback here, it seems like some officers, and I know my experience in talking to CKGS, was that you need an OCI. I got one, because the hassle of applying for an OCI from a PIO once was likely going to be less then the likely hassle I'd get for using a PIO to enter everytime going forward (you need to switch to PIO, etc.), plus I knew it was just a small fee compared to doing it for full price later. Of course, all this is based on the fact they don't change the rules again - but good luck with that.

Based on posts here, it seems it is better to hold on to PIO card unless conversion is going to be mandatory and more difficult in future.

Because OCI has that age 50 nuisance.

Collected the two OCI cards for my sons on Dec 30. Only to discover the PIO/OCI conversion scheme has been extended by another 6 months.

Renewal: lets see. My older sons passport expires when he turns 12 (2019), mine is due to expire 2020, my wifes 2019/20. None of us will be 50 then either.

PS: when I took out the old PIO cards of my sons (issued Oct 2014) I noticed they were delaminating rapidly especially the critical first page. :o

Like everything else which GOI makes or touches , it is complicated beyond what it should .
First those of you who say that they are the same , it is not. Modi announced that the dead line is extended without penalty till june . This will mean like everything else made in India , will be enforced with force - Remember Sanjay Gandhi and Family planning. Everything comes like that. I spend months trying to fill my daughters forms and sending them across. Took over 10 days for CKGS to update the website with notification that the documents were received. I had to call them to confirm. They even denied that I sent it and then I sent them the acknowledgement copy.

Sanjay Gandhis family planning scheme was nearly 40 years ago in a completely different era. Why the association?

Government proclaims a crisis and puts forward a solution in the best interests of the ordinary person and then uses coercive means -- legal or extra-legal -- to pursue the objective in delivering on the solution.

PIO to OCI conversion is entirely voluntary? At most you will get a stupid comment at immigration which you could mitigate by printing out the relevant gazette notification.

The forced sterilisation program was during the 1975-77 emergency when civil rights were suspended. It was as close as India had come to a dictatorship and I'm proud of the fact that democracy finally prevailed.

Till 2002 NRIs who had accepted another citizenship were left in a legal grey zone, the PIO scheme and now the OCI card is slowly fixing that. Its far from perfect, but I would not venture to compare it to the 1975-77 emergency atrocities.

Even before 2002, NRIs who accepted/maintained non-Indian citizenship as adults were never left in a legal grey zone by India over citizenship and residency status allowances. Legally, they all were neither NRIs nor Indian citizens of any sort; they were foreign citizens with Indian heritages, many of whom chose when and how to appear to be NRIs or RIs as they found suitable for a given circumstance without consideration for the existing body law in India.

PIO to OCI conversion is indeed still voluntary AFAIK, but there may still be some issues when trying to do PIO to OCI that do put people in a legal grey zone.

Well, my point mainly related to the fact that when a NRI became a foreign citizen, s/he automatically lost the right to own property in India or access to banking. Since 2002 all you need is to produce a PIO/OCI card and you are good to go. Comparing the ease with which I opened a bank account and became owner of various intangibles last year to the troubles we had in the 80s and 90s with my mother trying to do normal things at banks and in matters relating to property (in spite of showing a valid residence permit and documentation etc) its night and day.

NRIs who became foreign citizens prior to 2002 didn't all lose the legal right to own immovable property in India. I'll have to check with what the pre-2002 legal status of bank account and bank lockers were for those who went from being NRIs to being foreign citizens, but for immovable property and even movable, titled property, it wasn't as grey as perceived by a lot of lay folk and even some others who could have known better but didn't.

Is it fair to say that your mother didn't get commonly perceived to be of an ethnic Indian origin? Indians giving a tougher time to perceived foreigners regardless of the law still continues, as with the hassles many a person from NE border states, Ladakh and Kashmir can attest to when having visited say the Taj Mahal and trying to use the Indian ticket pricing as resident Indians even within the past 12 months.

For NRIs and foreign citizen persons perceived to be of Indian ethnic origin, things in India have gotten easier indeed; but some of that is due to the mushrooming numbers of such people leading to Indians' increased exposure to how to handle such matters; and a lot of that is due to the OCI scheme even more than just to the PIO scheme.

There was absolutely no issues for US Passport holder to open FCNR or NRE or NRO account in mid nineties.

GUWonder point is right on the money. The change is more due to mushrooming of such transactions and removal of fear associated with anything "forex".

One disadvantage of OCI is that one has to undergo the brutal process all over again once you cross 50 and get new foreign passport. If someone is at age 49, I would strongly recommend waiting until age 50 to convert PIO to OCI.

As someone who did the PIO to OCI for somebody else, the process is very simple. Took 2 1/2 weeks.

I don’t think a mandatory conversion from PIO to OCI is a good idea in this environment. I actually wrote a letter to the external affairs office, CG of India in NY and the PM’s office. Here are the links/ addresses: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], and contact PM of India: http://pgportal.gov.in/pmocitizen/Grievancepmo.aspx

My message was simple and I encourage anyone who feels this way to write something similar:

I am a US citizen by birth who has a Person of Indian Origin (PIO) card. Is it mandatory to convert the PIO card to OCI after June 30th? Will the PIO card be nullified after this date if we do not convert it?

I ask as I am concerned with the current environment in the US where Indians are being attached/ government policies are very unpredictable. Having been born in the US and never been an Indian citizen, I am hesitant to get something which calls me an “overseas CITIZEN OF INDIA” and would rather prefer to be just a “Person of Indian Origin”. So hopefully you will reconsider the mandatory conversion of PIO to OCI.

As a former PIO holder, your status is now OCI regardless of whether you have been issued a physical OCI card. I'm also quite confused about why you care about the semantics of the name.. OCI is a glorified visa, and there's nothing more to it.

The local CG has no ability to impact policy in this regard either, so I think this letter was probably a wasted effort.

The erstwhile "Overseas Citizen of India" program has been terminated. It is now called an "OCI Cardholder" program where the abbreviation "OCI" doesn't officially stand for "Overseas Citizen of India". All former PIOs are now considered to be "OCI Cardholders". The change was made to assuage the concerns of people like PrivatePilot as well as to open up the program to citizens of countries who didn't previously permit dual "citizenship" and hence prohibited their citizens from holding the erstwhile OCI status.

Can I travel to India with a PIO card after June 30 2017?
 

All,

I have a PIO card that I have not been able to get converted to OCI

I now have to go to India during the first week of July.

Although the offical last date to convert PIO to OCI is June 30, 2017, I won't be able to apply to get mine converted before then (currently out of country on another trip)

Does anyone know if I can travel to India with my PIO card in early July? Any suggestions on where to look to get a definitive response?

thanks for any info / suggestions!