Spanish Supreme Court declares IB CoC abusive
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2013
Location: MAD
Programs: IB+, BAEC
Posts: 3,106
Spanish Supreme Court declares IB CoC abusive
Link in Spanish: https://elpais.com/economia/2018/11/...58_981664.html
The most interesting note is that it was declared illegal to cancel a return if you don't fly an outbound. Could be a real interesting way to get some cheap one-ways from the US. I would personally be careful about abusing it because they could have recourse with my status and avios.
The most interesting note is that it was declared illegal to cancel a return if you don't fly an outbound. Could be a real interesting way to get some cheap one-ways from the US. I would personally be careful about abusing it because they could have recourse with my status and avios.
#2
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,352
Surprising decision. I don't think getting cheap one-ways is the main consequence (after all, you could already discard the inbound). But would this mean that if you want to fly from MAD to YYY you can search for the cheapest XXX-MAD-YYY and then skip the first flight? I imagine that one would have to read the actual sentence document.
#3
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I was thinking for originating in the US as fares are routinely much higher for US originating flights compared to Europe.
But yeah, that'd be an interesting case, too. Would be interesting to try with avios to get the married segment availability.
But yeah, that'd be an interesting case, too. Would be interesting to try with avios to get the married segment availability.
#4
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Wow, this is surprising. It will be interesting to see the impact. IIRC some German court already ruled that an airline cannot require that segments be used in order.
#6
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 410
For those who want to read the legal text of the ruling
http://www.poderjudicial.es/search/c...interface=true
It basically says that although buying a 'hidden city' ticket could potentially cause problems to the company*, is not possible to distinguish between those who buy the tickets on purpose and those who have a legitimate reason to skip a segment, therefore there is not enough equilibrium between rights and obligations, and the clause is declared illegal.
* The ruling even says that skipping a segment should not cause any loss to the airline, as they could sell the unused ticket to a stand-by passenger, but they decided to accept that argument that the tickets are for different types of clients.
http://www.poderjudicial.es/search/c...interface=true
8.- Los únicos supuestos en que pudiera considerarse que la utilización de solamente uno de los tramos perjudica a la compañía (si es que causa algún perjuicio, puesto que en caso de incomparencia del viajero podría vender el billete de ese tramo a un viajero en lista de espera, de existir esta) serían aquellos excepcionales en que el billete que comprende varios tramos se comercialice a un precio inferior incluso al precio de un tramo aislado, porque las ofertas de unos y otros vuelos vayan dirigidas a grupos de clientes diferentes, y el viajero ha comprado el billete con varios tramos con la idea deliberada de utilizar solo uno de esos tramos, por resultarle más económico que comprar el billete que contenga exclusivamente ese tramo.
9.- Pero, como explica la Audiencia, las razones por las que un viajero no hace uso de uno de los tramos del viaje pueden ser muy diversas. En muchos casos, pueden responder a imprevistos (pérdida del vuelo de ida, necesidad de adelantar o atrasar la ida por diversas razones, encontrarse el viajero en un punto intermedio del trayecto con varios enlaces el día programado para el viaje, etc.). Así pues, no puede identificarse el viajero que utiliza solo en parte un billete de ida y vuelta o con varios enlaces con el viajero que quiere utilizar un billete más barato que el que corresponde a la tarifa del tramo que quiere utilizar.
10.- Una cláusula como la cuestionada supone un desequilibrio de derechos y obligaciones contraria a la buena fe, puesto que a un consumidor que ha cumplido con su obligación, que es únicamente el pago del precio, se le priva en todo caso del disfrute de la prestación contratada, que por razones que pueden ser de naturaleza muy diversa ha decidido o se ha visto impelido a disfrutar solo en parte.
9.- Pero, como explica la Audiencia, las razones por las que un viajero no hace uso de uno de los tramos del viaje pueden ser muy diversas. En muchos casos, pueden responder a imprevistos (pérdida del vuelo de ida, necesidad de adelantar o atrasar la ida por diversas razones, encontrarse el viajero en un punto intermedio del trayecto con varios enlaces el día programado para el viaje, etc.). Así pues, no puede identificarse el viajero que utiliza solo en parte un billete de ida y vuelta o con varios enlaces con el viajero que quiere utilizar un billete más barato que el que corresponde a la tarifa del tramo que quiere utilizar.
10.- Una cláusula como la cuestionada supone un desequilibrio de derechos y obligaciones contraria a la buena fe, puesto que a un consumidor que ha cumplido con su obligación, que es únicamente el pago del precio, se le priva en todo caso del disfrute de la prestación contratada, que por razones que pueden ser de naturaleza muy diversa ha decidido o se ha visto impelido a disfrutar solo en parte.
* The ruling even says that skipping a segment should not cause any loss to the airline, as they could sell the unused ticket to a stand-by passenger, but they decided to accept that argument that the tickets are for different types of clients.
#7
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In the end, much ado about nothing. All the court did is require that carriers sell tickets which permit one to fly segments out-of-sequence. You may indeed purchase such tickets, but they are vastly more expensive than the standard tickets which require that segments be flown in order,
#8
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Even though it is "interesting" it is not as revolutionary as the Spanish press is transmitting. Iberia was already, in fact, not that strict with the no-show as long as you had a good reason for skipping a leg, they wouldn't cancel your ticket neither reprice it. However, it needed to be a reason outside of your control. That's at least in my experience.
Nevertheless, the court ruling only says that the no-show policy (=cancelling your reservations if flight segments are not flown in order) is unfair and Iberia must remove it from their Conditions of Carriage. I doubt Iberia is gonna be so generous that it will give passenger carte blanche. It is likely that they will follow Lufthansa, and say "we will reprice your itinerary in case you don't fly your segments as stated in your ticket". Anyway, who knows .... the clause is still in their T&Cs.
They only country where passengers have carte blanche is in Italy, where tickets sold in Italy (any airline) passengers may skip, not fly,... for any reason, any segments in their itinerary, and they can fly remaining ones without being charged a penalty.
Nevertheless, the court ruling only says that the no-show policy (=cancelling your reservations if flight segments are not flown in order) is unfair and Iberia must remove it from their Conditions of Carriage. I doubt Iberia is gonna be so generous that it will give passenger carte blanche. It is likely that they will follow Lufthansa, and say "we will reprice your itinerary in case you don't fly your segments as stated in your ticket". Anyway, who knows .... the clause is still in their T&Cs.
They only country where passengers have carte blanche is in Italy, where tickets sold in Italy (any airline) passengers may skip, not fly,... for any reason, any segments in their itinerary, and they can fly remaining ones without being charged a penalty.
#9
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Europe
Posts: 71
That's interesting, where can I find more information on this? Is it only required to buy the ticket in Italy (let's say on expedia.it) or does the itinerary have to originate in Italy?
#10
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,016
Doesn't this have consequences for airlines with air passenger duty? The tax is normally only payable in the country of origin but not in transit countries and the amount depends on the country of destination. Both the country of origin and the country of destination could change if a few legs are skipped, so will the airline now suddenly have to pay the tax at another country's rate and at the rate of a different destination country?
#11
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,338
I would also agree with the view that IB will follow the German example and say "Sure, fly 'em however...but we WILL reprice it to what you ACTUALLY fly" It surprises me that so many folks still seem to think that German court ruling 1. somehow allows skipping segments with no consequences, and
2. Applies anywhere outside Germany!
#12
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I would bet a reasonable sum that it only applies to itineraries originating IN Italy.
I would also agree with the view that IB will follow the German example and say "Sure, fly 'em however...but we WILL reprice it to what you ACTUALLY fly" It surprises me that so many folks still seem to think that German court ruling 1. somehow allows skipping segments with no consequences, and
2. Applies anywhere outside Germany!
I would also agree with the view that IB will follow the German example and say "Sure, fly 'em however...but we WILL reprice it to what you ACTUALLY fly" It surprises me that so many folks still seem to think that German court ruling 1. somehow allows skipping segments with no consequences, and
2. Applies anywhere outside Germany!
#13
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Unfortunately it would be the other Oneworld programmes - with region-based award charts - that could truly take advantage at no additional cost.
But besides... a court ruling is all well and good, but who wants to be the first guinea pig to show up at MAD having skipped the first leg!
#15
Join Date: Dec 2015
Programs: BA GGL, IB PLATINO, AB GOLD, HH DIAMOND
Posts: 115
Iberia will not cancel itineraries if you don't use completely
According to the judgement of the Spanish courts, Iberia will not longer cancel the rest of the flights of the itineriaries. Anyway, they are thinking of applying a surcharge for changes in the itinerary or recalculate rates.
https://elpais.com/economia/2018/12/...37_348620.html
https://elpais.com/economia/2018/12/...37_348620.html