Any points earning or utilization tips that you wish you had known earlier? For example...

Paying taxes with the WOH credit card. For a 1.87% fee, I can charge tens of thousands of dollars of taxes on my credit card.

$25K at 1.87% is $467.50. So for $467.50 I can get 25,467 points plus 10 nights. Assuming I'll be over 60 nights by the end of the year, the extra 10 nights will give me an extra 10K milestone points. So that's 1.32 cents per point ( $467.50/(10,000+25,467) ). Not bad given that I regularly redeem points for 3+ cents

Even better is to do just enough at the end of the year to get to that 70, 80, 90, or 100 night level

And even if you don't actually owe tens of thousands of dollars, you can pay the money and get it back when you file your taxes.

EDITED: messed up the decimal point. Earning at 1.32 cents and spending at 3+ cents

Oh, good, another WasKnown-style humble brag post...

Also, you don't redeem points at 30 cents.

Yeah that�s just all bad information definitely wouldn�t have made a whole thread to write it as there are many others dedicated to this information.

First - A lot of people value them at 1.5 cents per point. Yes you can redeem that at higher values but often the stay doesn�t justify it. You look at the property and say would I really spend that much (if it were the points value converted to cash) to stay a night? And the answer being No.

Second - A lot of people have a $5,000-$10,000 limit on the WOH card, not 25k+. In addition to that let�s say you have a 28k limit if you utilize 25.5k to pay your taxes or even worse to pay them then expect a refund Chase can and will take that as a negative sign they can and have shut people down by closing all their accounts with no recourse. It�s not a matter of paying it back it�s a matter of utilization in their eyes. I�ve seen friends and family do similar things and Chase closed all their accounts even though they paid off the card in full. Another thing is paying it in full so you suggested if you don�t owe the 25k just to pay them and they�ll refund you, what about the interim? That�s just loads of issues there.

Third - At a 1.5 cent per point valuation you�d get $525 total and that�s assuming you�re at 60 nights exactly and it boosts you to 70. That�s a big assumption, especially considering most pay their taxes by April. Not sure where you came up with that coming out to earning 13.2 cents per dollar spent in fees or where you�re redeeming for 30 cents per point.

To put it into perspective 30 cents per point at a Category 4 property would mean the nightly cost would otherwise be $4,500 Per Night. Let�s say you stayed at Ventana which I believe is the highest costing property. Being at Category 8 you could regularly get 5 to 6 cents per point at the $2,000 to $2,400 a night cost which is wildly overpriced.

If you really wanted to do this you could MS the 25k and overall you�d pay less than 1% (under $250) and still earn the same. It would also give you the chance to purchase 10k pay it off then redo another 10k without jumping your utilization to 90% or more.

I wouldn�t recommend either method, but if you�re dead set on it MS is less headaches if you�re just doing 25k.

Thanks for the lengthy reply trashing my post!

I see you posting on here all the time. You must have some actual insights into how to optimize earning or spending? I'd love to hear them.

not a bad way to �top off� in multiples of 2 nights at $95 for 2 night credits� can�t get better than this for mattress runs unless you can get to vegas for cheap Excalibur stays, although cheap Excalibur can also qualify for quarter/period specific promos as well.

can�t get cheaper than less than $50 for an elite night for those that actually mattress run. Not including the value of 5000 points per 2 night charge.

I disagree with the above, and in many cases after one crunches the #s MS will pay, especially if a Globalist where theyd have to pay for the parking, which they wont on an award stay.
I too crunched the #s and thought that was that with a couple of 4sthat are now 5s, yet after going thru the #s it would cost me apx $135 per award night when Rev rate is over $350 on avg and with that Id have to pay for parking

I think you mean �1.32 cents per point� and �3+ cents� in there.

I�d start with what you�re willing to spend in cash on a stay.

For family trips to non-resort cities (Dallas, Los Angeles, Orlando) that�s $120 for us. Meaning a up to a Category 2 property on Standard Dates.

For family trips to resort destinations like Hawaii we go up to $225 or up to a Category 4 property on standard dates.

For a couples trip we�d go up to $300 or a Category 5 on standard dates. Use a Cat 7 cert at a Cat 6 or 7 if you have it.

This is because you�d also have to factor other costs like flight, rental car, food, amusement into the total trip cost.

I�d typically recommend using points if you get more than 1.5 cents per point and it�s not going over your pre-set limits.

For spending on the WOH card gift cards are an easy way to rack up points. Often grocery stores have promotional offers ($10 off $150 Visa Gift Card purchase), otherwise you can look up the process for MS�ing if that interests you for higher spend.

I guess I�m lost in your post it�s kind of everywhere.

I didn�t say MS wasn�t profitable I said I wouldn�t recommend it. I wouldn�t recommend it because many MS methods are shut down and it�s a fairly grueling process, especially if you have a 10k or less limit on your WOH card.

The harder part is investing your time which you should factor in and finding a bank that�s okay taking tens of thousands in MO�s.

Some thoughts:

• The calculus for me is different as I will consider CC spend as a way to get to Globalist. OP was saying it is a good way to get the 70 night milestone award. There are probably a few like me who will struggle to hit 60 and thus the cost/benefit of increased CC spend makes more sense
• Using tax payments as described by the OP would not necessarily require a $25K limit, as estimated payments can be done in multiples and at minimum quarterly
• MS as a better option than a simply charging money you are already going to spend seems questionable. Of the many things I have read in the MS threads, I don't think I want to spend the time and effort to do almost any of them.

Id agree with this if a person was 1st starting out MSing. For me I have to go out of state to unload and that doesnt right over the border either, but after crunching the #s it still pays for me (not saying for everyone). I also like to get away for 2-3 days and do so to where I know I can unload w/o any problems and thou it costs me Miles/Pts for the tkt and hotel nights and car every year my stash of pts/miles is worth less and less so I dont mind using them and basically my out of pocket is just the gas and $11.20 security fee on the tkts

Funny thing is I called Chase yesterday since they sent me an email that they raised my CL by $5K it was already over 25K , and I asked them to take back the increase, I have enough CLs over all my Chase CCs that arent being used that I didnt want to add any more least a Non-Chase CC comes along that I want and be told sorry you have too much outstanding as it is on all your other CCs.

lastly some folks like me have so much time on our hands that MSing is a nice way to use some of it up

Its a YMMV issue where as I said above each person should crunch their #s to see if its a good deal for them or not eg I just finished eating in a restaurant and driving a few mins see a sign "All you can eat $11.99. Well with a full stomach it wouldnt be a good deal for me , yet for someone who hasnt eaten since breakfast will indeed be a good deal.

Also someone who is on their own Dime and wants to maintain being Globalist and staying BIB(butt in bed) 60 nights a year is hard to maintain, well getting the 2 nights per $5K is a sweet way to Globalist and the pts earned can offset a few award nights which earns Night credit as well. Even someone on their companys Dime might not get the 60 nights so MSing will make up the difference. But as you said if a person has a low CL forgetaboutit or even if a person has a high CL but wouldnt put much else on the CC I wouldnt recommend it either. But putting 5 figures in MS a month when you are also putting on 5 figures in non-MS isnt gonna be a problem,IMO

What you�re missing is the roughly 2% fee that it requires.

Whereas MS you�re paying less than 1% which on 25k is quite hefty.

Here�s MS in a nutshell -

Go to Mall, purchase 25k in Visa Gift Cards (can be done in 1 trip, 3 trips or 5 trips depending on your Credit Limit on your CC) then go to Walmart you can unload 4k at a time, up to 8k per day. If you have a P2 (spouse/partner) you can do 16k in a day unload that�s only via Walmart if you do Walmart and grocery stores and Amex Serve you can unload it all in a day. There�s also plenty of other methods to unload as well.

I agree if you have the CL and the time go for it, it�s just a process and many people don�t have that CL. Personally I had to reallocate all my credit lines with chase just to MS. I MS�d to Globalist in 2017 and have maintained it with 0 MS every year since, it�s much easier to justify stays once you�re a Globalist IMO.

There are multiple things referenced in the quote above that Chase supposedly could take as a negative sign. Is it using 91% of credit limit to pay taxes? Is it paying taxes with the expectation of a refund (although how could Chase possibly know that)? Thank you.

Chase doesn�t care what the spend is on (IRS vs. Buying Gift Cards) they care what % of your limit is being used, age of the account, length of chase relationship (credit, not checking), balances of other accounts, balance in checking account owned by Chase along with a couple other factors I�m sure.

Friends and family have been shut down by Chase and they were shut down not even for MS it was literally for paying the IRS or regular spend and they had paid off the card in full, and were still shut down, above were some of the reasons provided after several escalations. So all I�m saying is be careful any way you go.

BINGO, even after crunching all the #s and a person sees its worth it, that doesnt mean its AOK to start spending crazy #s on their CC when they never used to. its something that has to be built up over time, otherwise the odds are you will be Shutdown by that bank and that can affect all your Credit present and future and a price I wouldnt want to end up paying