Renaissance Sharm El Sheikh $29 for most of December
Dec 5, 2015, 7:00 am
#31
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I was in Egypt - Cairo and Luxor - in April and I'll agree with you on the con man part, but not the safety aspect. There is risk everywhere. I'm probably more likely to be injured/killed in a traffic accident here in Houston than some freak accident in a foreign country.
The U.S. Embassy restricts its employees and their family members from traveling outside of Cairo without prior approval and advises all U.S. citizens to carefully consider the security implications of travel outside of the greater Cairo metropolitan area.
U.S. Embassy personnel in Egypt are currently prohibited from traveling anywhere in the Sinai Peninsula (including Sharm El Sheikh, pending the outcome of the investigation into the October 31 crash of a Russian passenger jet) or in the western desert region.
There are more than a couple other countries that have travel warnings for Egypt. I haven't seen the same warnings for travel to the US or Houston.
https://smartraveller.gov.au/countries/egypt
http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/egypt
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt
I looked up the number of traffic fatalities in Houston - it was 190 in 2013. http://www.city-data.com/accidents/a...ton-Texas.html 224 people died on the Russian airliner. And there were more than a few other tourist deaths in Egypt so far in 2015. So if it brings you any comfort, it appears that you're statistically safer driving in Houston than vacationing in Egypt, especially when one considers that the population of Houston is greater than the number of tourists in Egypt at any given time.
There are very few human activities without some amount of risk. However, there are plenty of places to vacation in the world. It would be prudent to wait until the threat level is decreased before vacationing in Egypt. It's not like the cost to vacation in Egypt is going to rise significantly even after the region has stabilized.
Dec 5, 2015, 7:40 am
#32
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Yes, but that had nothing at all to do with terrorism: press reports suggest that those killed were employees of the nightclub. I was an early-hours attack carried out either by a disgruntled former employee or a group of youths excluded from the place. The attack was lethal because it was a basement club, apparently without emergency exits.
It happened in the very smart, diplomat-heavy, Agouza district, home to the British Council, across from Zamalek. I'm guessing that's one reason it got such international coverage.
But, again, terrorism hasn't been mentioned and no foreign national, tourists or others, were injured or killed.
I looked up the number of traffic fatalities in Houston - it was 190 in 2013. http://www.city-data.com/accidents/a...ton-Texas.html 224 people died on the Russian airliner. And there were more than a few other tourist deaths in Egypt so far in 2015. So if it brings you any comfort, it appears that you're statistically safer driving in Houston than vacationing in Egypt, especially when one considers that the population of Houston is greater than the number of tourists in Egypt at any given time.
I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusions about risk: but your statistical analysis reaching those conclusions is shot. There's no compelling reason to compare death on an annual basis centred around a single, large scale event in Sharm: you might as well do it on a weekly, or a ten-year basis.
The downing of the airliner was, as KrazyKanuck put it, a freak incident: Houston road death are relentless, daily, occurrences.
The Sharm incident has resulted in significantly heightened security: whether or not the new levels are adequate remains to be seen. Sadly, one month's road deaths in Houston are unlikely to have much impact on deaths from the same cause the following month.
And, finally, diplomats are particularly vulnerable. Their security is a particular concern of foreign ministries and embassies, for reasons beyond the well-being of the individuals. They will have restrictions on travel and other activities not necessarily placed on tourists.
It happened in the very smart, diplomat-heavy, Agouza district, home to the British Council, across from Zamalek. I'm guessing that's one reason it got such international coverage.
But, again, terrorism hasn't been mentioned and no foreign national, tourists or others, were injured or killed.
I looked up the number of traffic fatalities in Houston - it was 190 in 2013. http://www.city-data.com/accidents/a...ton-Texas.html 224 people died on the Russian airliner. And there were more than a few other tourist deaths in Egypt so far in 2015. So if it brings you any comfort, it appears that you're statistically safer driving in Houston than vacationing in Egypt, especially when one considers that the population of Houston is greater than the number of tourists in Egypt at any given time.
The downing of the airliner was, as KrazyKanuck put it, a freak incident: Houston road death are relentless, daily, occurrences.
The Sharm incident has resulted in significantly heightened security: whether or not the new levels are adequate remains to be seen. Sadly, one month's road deaths in Houston are unlikely to have much impact on deaths from the same cause the following month.
And, finally, diplomats are particularly vulnerable. Their security is a particular concern of foreign ministries and embassies, for reasons beyond the well-being of the individuals. They will have restrictions on travel and other activities not necessarily placed on tourists.
Dec 5, 2015, 3:03 pm
#33
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusions about risk: but your statistical analysis reaching those conclusions is shot. There's no compelling reason to compare death on an annual basis centred around a single, large scale event in Sharm: you might as well do it on a weekly, or a ten-year basis.
The downing of the airliner was, as KrazyKanuck put it, a freak incident: Houston road death are relentless, daily, occurrences.
The Sharm incident has resulted in significantly heightened security: whether or not the new levels are adequate remains to be seen. Sadly, one month's road deaths in Houston are unlikely to have much impact on deaths from the same cause the following month.
And, finally, diplomats are particularly vulnerable. Their security is a particular concern of foreign ministries and embassies, for reasons beyond the well-being of the individuals. They will have restrictions on travel and other activities not necessarily placed on tourists.
The downing of the airliner was, as KrazyKanuck put it, a freak incident: Houston road death are relentless, daily, occurrences.
The Sharm incident has resulted in significantly heightened security: whether or not the new levels are adequate remains to be seen. Sadly, one month's road deaths in Houston are unlikely to have much impact on deaths from the same cause the following month.
And, finally, diplomats are particularly vulnerable. Their security is a particular concern of foreign ministries and embassies, for reasons beyond the well-being of the individuals. They will have restrictions on travel and other activities not necessarily placed on tourists.
As far as the terrorist risk, the Egyptian government is losing control of large swaths of Egypt and their ability to keep tourists safe in Egypt is diminishing. With each new attack in a different part of Egypt, government security forces must spread themselves thinner to cover more land area.
I wouldn't have recommended travelling to Peru when the Shining Path were committing regular attacks there, but I would recommend travelling there today. However, there are still certain parts of Peru where the remnants of the Shining Path and drug cartels make it unsafe to travel to - it would be prudent to avoid those areas. So just because Egypt and the Middle East are unsafe today does not mean that they will be unsafe to vacation there in a few years.
The diplomatic travel restrictions are one thing; the Aussie, UK, and Canadian travel warnings are an entirely different matter. Those warnings are clearly directed at tourists.
I could take a vacation to Mogadishu and not have any issues. But is it a prudent thing to do? The personal safety risk is lower vacationing in the Middle East/North Africa than Mogadishu, but the personal safety risk is much greater in MENA than vacationing in many other parts of the world. If one's comfortable with the elevated risk in order to save a couple of dollars, fine. But one can find other parts of the world that are as inexpensive to vacation but are lower risk.
Dec 5, 2015, 6:07 pm
#34
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UK government travel advice (the only set I pay attention to) specifically exclude Sharm from the "essential travel only" warning.
Dec 5, 2015, 7:57 pm
#35
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
Understandable.I know you Brits like to get travel insurance. Three questions:
1) Are any airlines currently flying nonstop between the UK and Sharm?
2) Is it possible to get travel insurance for Sharm anymore? and
3) If you are able to get travel insurance, does it cover 'terrorism delays'? I read that's not a normal item in those policies.
Last edited by iflyjetz; Dec 5, 2015 at 8:06 pm
Dec 6, 2015, 4:46 am
#36
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NY
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazykanuck
I was in Egypt - Cairo and Luxor - in April and I'll agree with you on the con man part, but not the safety aspect. There is risk everywhere. I'm probably more likely to be injured/killed in a traffic accident here in Houston than some freak accident in a foreign country.
The US embassy might disagree with your safety assessment (from their website):
The U.S. Embassy restricts its employees and their family members from traveling outside of Cairo without prior approval and advises all U.S. citizens to carefully consider the security implications of travel outside of the greater Cairo metropolitan area.
U.S. Embassy personnel in Egypt are currently prohibited from traveling anywhere in the Sinai Peninsula (including Sharm El Sheikh, pending the outcome of the investigation into the October 31 crash of a Russian passenger jet) or in the western desert region.
There are more than a couple other countries that have travel warnings for Egypt. I haven't seen the same warnings for travel to the US or Houston.
https://smartraveller.gov.au/countries/egypt
http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/egypt
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt
I looked up the number of traffic fatalities in Houston - it was 190 in 2013. http://www.city-data.com/accidents/a...ton-Texas.html 224 people died on the Russian airliner. And there were more than a few other tourist deaths in Egypt so far in 2015. So if it brings you any comfort, it appears that you're statistically safer driving in Houston than vacationing in Egypt, especially when one considers that the population of Houston is greater than the number of tourists in Egypt at any given time.
There are very few human activities without some amount of risk. However, there are plenty of places to vacation in the world. It would be prudent to wait until the threat level is decreased before vacationing in Egypt. It's not like the cost to vacation in Egypt is going to rise significantly even after the region has stabilized.
Originally Posted by krazykanuck
I was in Egypt - Cairo and Luxor - in April and I'll agree with you on the con man part, but not the safety aspect. There is risk everywhere. I'm probably more likely to be injured/killed in a traffic accident here in Houston than some freak accident in a foreign country.
The US embassy might disagree with your safety assessment (from their website):
The U.S. Embassy restricts its employees and their family members from traveling outside of Cairo without prior approval and advises all U.S. citizens to carefully consider the security implications of travel outside of the greater Cairo metropolitan area.
U.S. Embassy personnel in Egypt are currently prohibited from traveling anywhere in the Sinai Peninsula (including Sharm El Sheikh, pending the outcome of the investigation into the October 31 crash of a Russian passenger jet) or in the western desert region.
There are more than a couple other countries that have travel warnings for Egypt. I haven't seen the same warnings for travel to the US or Houston.
https://smartraveller.gov.au/countries/egypt
http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/egypt
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/egypt
I looked up the number of traffic fatalities in Houston - it was 190 in 2013. http://www.city-data.com/accidents/a...ton-Texas.html 224 people died on the Russian airliner. And there were more than a few other tourist deaths in Egypt so far in 2015. So if it brings you any comfort, it appears that you're statistically safer driving in Houston than vacationing in Egypt, especially when one considers that the population of Houston is greater than the number of tourists in Egypt at any given time.
There are very few human activities without some amount of risk. However, there are plenty of places to vacation in the world. It would be prudent to wait until the threat level is decreased before vacationing in Egypt. It's not like the cost to vacation in Egypt is going to rise significantly even after the region has stabilized.
Dec 6, 2015, 11:13 am
#37
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
So no, Houston is statistically nowhere as dangerous as Egypt. Egypt's annual traffic fatality rate alone dwarfs Houston's combined traffic fatality + firearm death rates.
Dec 7, 2015, 4:18 am
#38
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NY
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by pduck01
Your traffic fatalities in Houston don't move the needle much but your odds of getting shot make it a statistically much more dangerous locale than anywhere in Egypt.
The data I've looked at indicates that Houston's annual murders are not that different than the annual traffic fatalities; running ~200ish per year. If you've got data to back up your statement, post it.
So no, Houston is statistically nowhere as dangerous as Egypt. Egypt's annual traffic fatality rate alone dwarfs Houston's combined traffic fatality + firearm death rates.
Originally Posted by pduck01
Your traffic fatalities in Houston don't move the needle much but your odds of getting shot make it a statistically much more dangerous locale than anywhere in Egypt.
The data I've looked at indicates that Houston's annual murders are not that different than the annual traffic fatalities; running ~200ish per year. If you've got data to back up your statement, post it.
So no, Houston is statistically nowhere as dangerous as Egypt. Egypt's annual traffic fatality rate alone dwarfs Houston's combined traffic fatality + firearm death rates.
By your math I'm sure China would be a terribly violent place.
Dec 7, 2015, 11:58 am
#39
Join Date: Jul 2001
Programs: Marriott LT Tit; Hyatt Explorist; Hilton CC Gold; IHG CC Plt; Hertz (MR) 5 star
Posts: 5,536
Houston: gun fatality rate 12.9 per 100K
42x higher? You're making up numbers without any data to back it up.
The problem with the Egypt traffic fatality number is that it isn't specific to tourists, which, based on the previous link I posted, should be much higher than 13.2 per 100K.