diapickle

He wouldn't be able to use the HKID line either as he didn't have a valid HK visa to accompany his non-permanent HKID. Basically his HKID is useless for HK customs but still useful for indetification purposes when he's actually inside HK.

christep

Just an observation that the manual processing of permanent and non-permanent HKID holders at the borders is now decreasing rapidly. I reckon that on my recent trips through a very substantial majority of people holding smart-IDs are using the e-channels. Although the e-channels are labelled differently for Permanent and non-Permanent residents I'm not sure whether the machines actually reject a non-permanent card in a machine above which the sign says "Permanent".

Pickles

Furthermore, during manual processing, passports for those holding non-permanent IDs are not being stamped. Instead, they put on a sticker next to your last entry basically saying that unless your conditions for stay have changed, you are permitted to stay until the date indicated in the last stamp.

christep

And I noticed on my way in this evening that all the e-channels now just say "HK Residents" without distinguishing Permanent or non-Permanent.

Hotspring

True. The self-served lanes are now accepting non-permanent ID cards. That means the ID card has the same information as the one recorded on the passport on the duration of stays.

So, the Hong Kong Resident line is now deserted, empty, except for those who has the residency in HK but without the ID card. This is rare and usually only applies to children under 11, born outside HK but obtained the HK permanent or temporary residency.

Pickles

Or those without the new IC card, either because of loss (and waiting for a replacement), or plain missed the window.

B-HQC

You do not understand the concept of the HK Permanent ID card. It is a Permanent Resident card similar to the US Green Card, and carries no implication of your nationality.

When you apply for a HK Permanent ID card you are required to declare your nationality, and to provide supporting documentation (ie. your passport). Your nationality is written into the "Nationality" field on the application form and is noted in your IMMD profile.

The HK ID card, however, in essence functions as a resident card, ie. proof of your long term visa. If your visa runs out and it is not extended and you are not yet a Permanent Resident you will no longer have Right of Abode in HK.

Thus, the cards do not prove citizenship or imply that you are a citizen of a certain country. Their only function is to show your residency status in the HKSAR.

B-HQC

That is now iliegal under the Registration of Persons (Application for New Identity Cards) Order. You can be fined up to $5000 when you try to use your old ID card which in fact will cease to be valid the on the last day of the window for your year of birth unless can prove a reasonable excuse (ie. out of HK).

slickalick

Or for those whose microchip doesn't work through no fault of his own and refuses to pay $680 to the immigration department for a new one - they should give me one for free!

dtsm

OP is half right. My son and I just went through this and let me try to clarify:

1. I recently found out US permits dual citizenship and because I was born in HK, could apply for HK "citizenship". I won't go through the process (interested OP can pm for details); suffice to say I applied and was granted citizenship, along with the infamous HK ID last year. Note and this is important, my card has 3 stars (***) which means I can vote, be elected to office (if I renounce my US citizenship), eligible for social services, purchase property,etc. etc.

2. I also can carry a HK passport, which requires a separate application. I did apply for this and approved....although not sure if I will ever use or need it?

3. I can apply for an entry permit to PRC, which means I travel there as HK citizen, without need for visa on my US passport. But the caveat is I then give us consular rights and 'protection' of my US citizenship. I did not nor do I ever intend to apply for this!

4. My son, who is older than 18 yrs old, then applied for same this summer - on the basis of my status. He was approved, given HK ID but and this is the key - he has no stars (***) on his card. That means he can live, work and remain indefinitely in HK. But he cannot vote, hold office. If he stays in HK for 7 yrs, he can 'upgrade' to 3 stars. Not sure if there are 1 star or 2 star status.

5. Had I applied for my son before his 18th birthday, he would have been granted full citizenship, 3 star status.

Bottom line:

1. I am full citizen - of both US and HK.
2. My son is permanent resident but not citizen -- more like green card holder - which is the status of most expats with HK ID that live and work in HK are - unless they stay more than 7 yrs and want full status.

christep

Er, no, dtsm, there are a number of errors in your post. B-HQC's post is pretty much spot on, the only caveat being that they didn't explain the meaning of the *** which appears on most HKID cards - see below.

Firstly, there is no such thing as "citizenship" of Hong Kong. Your citizenship is of the People's Republic of China, of which HK is merely an Administrative Region.

Being born in HK is neither necessary nor sufficient to be granted Chinese citizenship.

You don't need the *** to vote - all Permanent Residents have the right to vote (see http://www.voterregistration.gov.hk/...gister-gc.html ), and they can also hold public offices (the only exception being the Chief Executive who, under the Basic Law must be a Chinese Citizen with no right of abode in another country and must have ordinarily resided in HK for a period of 20 years - http://www.info.gov.hk/basic_law/facts/index.htm ), and they have the same rights to social services (in fact all residents have the same rights to medical services). Anyone at all can purchase property in HK - there are no restrictions on this.

The *** indicates that you are entitled to a HK Re-entry Permit. These are issued to "Chinese citizens who have either acquired the right of abode or been granted unconditional stay in Hong Kong" (Q3 at http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/faq_hktd.htm ). If, as you say, your son has been granted Unconditional Stay in HK then it would seem that the only additional requirement for him to get *** would be the grant of Chinese Citizenship. The 7 years will simply change his status from Unconditional Stay to Right of Abode, but that wouldn't change his eligibility for a HK Re-entry Permit. It would give him the right to vote and stand for election, but that's about all.

Since you have no intention of applying for a HK Re-entry permit I don't understand why the *** is important to you. The ONLY thing it indicates is your eligibility for such a permit. (see http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/hkid_frontinfo.htm ).

You have obviously misunderstood or been misadvised on a number of issues - I hope this hasn't caused you too much unnecessary hassle.

Details of all the relevant laws can be found at http://www.legislation.gov.hk/eng/home.htm Look at Chapter 115 (Immigration Ordinance) and Chapter 539 (Passport Ordinance).

dtsm

Sorry - should have been clearer. I did not mean or imply citizen of China but citizen of HK.

HK is actually SARS and although belongs to China, it's 'citizens' as you correctly pointed out are not true/bonafide chinese citizens....PRC screwed them after takeover!

I do disagree on the ***, not everyone has ***. Locals do, most expats' don't unless they stay the 7 yrs and apply. And my son, without the *** was told by immigration he can't vote nor hold office (obviously he has no interest in either).

christep

Then I'm afriad that you and the Immigration officer who told you this are wrong. I am a expat who has been in HK more than 7 years. I have been granted Permanent Residence. I have the right to vote and to stand for any elected office (except that of Chief Executive). I am not entitled to the HK Re-entry permit (and hence do not have *** on my HKID card) and I will never have that right unless I am granted Chinese Citizenship.

If your son cannot vote or hold office that is because he is NOT a Permanent Resident. He may have Unconditional Stay (indicated by the absence of a "C" amongst the letters on the front of his HKID card - see http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/hkid_frontinfo.htm ). He may apply to change this to Permanent Residence about being ordinarily resident in HK for a continuous period of 7 years, but if he already has Unconditional Stay then this will make no difference to his entitlement to a HK Re-entry Permit (and hence *** on his ID).

dannyhk

Interesting thread. Chrisstep is quite right about the formal position as reflected in the Immigration Ordinance and Hong Kong government documentation--officially *** simply signals your eligibility for a Re-entry Permit (an outdated document which very few people hold these days). However, in practice, almost the only people entitled to Re-entry Permits are Chinese nationals. So, in a sense, *** does act as a surrogate indication of whether you are Chinese or not--and so distinguishes Chinese holders of HK Permanent ID cards from other holders of HK Permanent ID cards. This doesn't make any difference to your right to vote. As Chrisstep said, all permanent residents are entitled to vote--whether they're Chinese or not. But the immigration officer was closer to the mark in saying that, without ***, you can't stand for office. It's not just the post of Chief Executive that's reserved for Chinese nationals, so are more than 20 other top government posts, most seats in the Legislative Council and two top judicial posts (although I'm not sure whether simply having *** would be enough, by itself, to prove you're eligible for these posts). In addition, the Home Visit Permits issued by China Travel Service in Hong Kong allowing easy access to the mainland (which dtsm referred to as an "Entry Permit to PRC") are only issued to Chinese holders of HK Permanent ID cards--turn up with a HK Permanent ID card that doesn't have *** stars and you won't get one. In the past, *** was also often popularly (and wrongly) equated with right of abode in Hong Kong so that expats holding Permanent ID cards were sometimes (wrongly) told that they weren't really permanent residents, although this kind of misunderstanding is getting much rarer these days as more and more expats become permanent residents.

christep

Well, plus a whole wodge of stateless people who are 2nd - 5th generation HK people but happen to be ethnically other than Chinese.Well yes, but none of the top 20 government posts, nor the appointed seats in Legco, nor the judicial appointments are filled by election, so "standing for office" doesn't really apply to them. For those posts which are filled by (direct) election - District Councils and the geographical constituencies in Legco - all that is required to stand or to vote is permanent residence.