moondog

Do you have any idea how much bureaucracy filing flight plans to/from these airports entails? Sure, they will figure out a way to get your plane IN in the event of an emergency, but getting it out can be a 3-day process and/or entail a 3a departure slot. By the time the 3-day mark hit, most passengers would naturally figure out other means to make the final leg to HK, but land border crossings are not an option for people without PRC visas.

I also echo the other points made above (e.g. SZX and HKG experience the same weather).

Did you honestly ponder these logistics before asking your question?

STS-134

Well garykung said that flights are often diverted to MFM, which likely is experiencing the same weather as HKG and SZX. In fact, MFM is even closer to HKG than SZX, and is even more exposed to the ocean and storm surge. If you're going to divert to MFM, SZX should be usable as well, and possibly less exposed to flooding. The runways at SZX and MFM face approximately the same direction and both are approximately perpendicular to those at HKG, which would allow planes to land when the winds are strong crosswinds at HKG. SZX does also have the advantage of having a longer runway than MFM, although the difference in length is small.

CAN on the other hand is a bit inland, participates in the TWOV program, and I would expect that except for typhoons that come straight up the Pearl River Delta, would be likely to be at least somewhat out of the line of fire when HKG is directly in it. Even if the typhoon did come straight up the Pearl River Delta, it's likely to have weakened by the time it reaches CAN. Furthermore, unlike MFM (which is connected to the HKG area mainly by ferry, and ferries are unlikely to be operating during a typhoon), it's possible to drive from CAN to Hong Kong in about 2-3 hours, which you can't even do from TPE because it's on an island.

percysmith

See http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...ttle-tale.html for a previous tale on what complications happen when CX planes get diverted to CAN.

Basically: If you land in SZX or CAN, don't expect to be allowed to disembark and continue to HK by land. Even if all the passengers are qualified to do so and it is the logistically easiest thing to do.

Also see the dailymirror article gpia put up about a plane diverted to SZX http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...ed-storms.html

Steve M

You keep ignoring the visa issues. MFM has similar visa-free accessibility as does HKG for many nationalities. Especially for flights from North America, which are likely to have many US and Canadian citizens on them without China visas (unless their eventual destination is China), this is a major factor. Although CAN does participate in the TWOV program, it's valid only if you also leave by air from the same airport, which has all of the problems already mentioned in the thread. The land border with HKG is not an option for those using TWOV.

percysmith

Even you haven't taken it far enough. CAN (and SZX) simply won't let people off the plane, unless it is to board a one-for-one replacement flight. Doesn't matter even if the whole plane is filled with HRP-holding HK-resident PRC nationals and/or PRC resident citizens with HK entry permits.

moondog

How would TWOV benefit passengers who unexpectedly arrive in CAN? I suppose a handful could try to snag seats on one of the ~2 daily HKG flights, but the others would need to zigzag in order to make their way to HKG. This assumes that they are permitted to deplane at CAN in the first place.

I'll ask again: have you HONESTLY thought about this stuff, or are you just posting for your own amusement?

percysmith

他不了解我们的国情！(yes, the line is deliberately quoted verbatim)

christep

MNL is also a CX primary diversion point (and occasionally CRK), depending on where flights are coming from, time of day and other factors. Visas etc are generally much easier there than in the mainland.

The problem with MFM as a diversion point is that it's so close to HKG that it may well get affected by the same weather, so it's not generally regarded as a weather diversion option (unless flights get into fuel emergencies).

CAN works in some circumstances - for example, coming from Japan when the crew is good for a few hours extra and it's highly likely that HKG will reopen within that time. Just drop into CAN, maybe get a dash more fuel, and off you go again when the weather clears.

garykung

I believe you took my words out of context.

I only said the flights will get diverted to TPE/MFM when necessary. I did not say the flights are often diverted to MFM.

MFM is actually more far away from HKG than you think. Airport-to-Airport, the distance of MFM and SZX from HKG are 67.4 km and 37.3 km per WebFlyer estimate.

You seem to fail considering ATC and air routing.

Even the airports are close together, it does not mean the approaching/departure routes are short.

Tropical cyclones are like hurricane but not tornado. Its surrounding area can significantly impact a large area.

Beside - historical path of tropical cyclones tend to be northward (SZX/CAN) but not westward (MFM).

When air and sea traffic is impacted by severe weather, how can you be sure that land traffic has not been impacted as well?

STS-134

I think what we're talking about is when flights get diverted from HKG due to WX (in particular, during a typhoon), where do they typically go?

There is no way it's 67.4 km from HKG to MFM. Just look at it in a map. I'm not sure what's going on with WebFlyer but the distance there is way off.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=HKG-MFM,+HKG-SZX

It'll almost certainly be impacted too. But the wind threshold to shut down all land transport is much higher than it is for shutting down air transport.

I can see advantages of diverting to TPE too. CX does have staff on the ground there who can provide updates, as well as their own lounges and the entire TPE terminal is essentially a sterile area behind immigration, meaning that passengers would have access to a large area with lounges, shops, and restaurants while they wait. Interesting fact: CI sells TPE-KHH flights (CI301/CI309) but you cannot buy them directly on CI's website. These appear to be the last flights that the THSR hasn't killed off, and they appear to be for connecting passengers only. I think this is due to the fact that since all of TPE is behind immigration, even Taiwan residents would need their passport to take those flights. They would also have to "exit" the country and then "enter" again at KHH, which might cause issues when immigration officials ask them where they went.

If the closure of HKG is expected to last a while, I can see why they might divert to TPE, but if it's expected to be short, it seems like an awful long way to go (and pax probably wouldn't be allowed off the plane anyway no matter where they land).

moondog

I know we're getting off topic here, but I'm curious about flight paths between MFM/SZX and HKG.

I am guessing the following:
-when HKG is operating east-west, both would be needlessly long flights
-MFM-HKG could theoretically be a 5 minute flight when winds are out of the northeast (northbound takeoff, right turn, eastbound landing)
-SZX-HKG would appear to be a 200+ mile flight, regardless of runway orientations, due to the 15,000 foot hand off rule

garykung

These 4 flights will tell you how they look:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...200Z/RCTP/VMMC

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...220Z/RCTP/VHHH

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...200Z/RCTP/ZGGG

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/...700Z/RCTP/ZGSZ

moondog

I was wondering about flights that take off from MFM or SZX and land in HKG, unscheduled of course. (I've done TPE-HKG enough times to understand that drill.)

TOMFORD

Ahh so nyc-hkg flight delays/cancellations happen more often than I think in the summer. Got it... by the way is there a word that describes delays AND cancellations?

garykung

The industry term is IRROPS (IRRegular OPerationS).