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Old Mar 18, 2012, 9:27 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by dtsm
1. once you enter china with return home permit, can you stay as long as you wish without having to leave China or apply for any other visa?
The HRP is a card. China won't even let you use a HKSAR passport for what it considers "domestic" travel, so it doesn't grant "visa". There is no limit to your length of stay, but let's say if you participate in a protest (like many disgruntled property owners had done), they can remove you at any time. In real practice, HK residents are treated better than rural villagers in terms of being able to remain/stay in cities.

Originally Posted by dtsm
2. can you own property or apply to start a business, like other citizens that actually reside in China?
Being a Mainland Chinese citizen alone doesn't give you the right to own property/business anywhere in the country. HK residency is simply a Chinese residency outside the registration/huji/hukou system with a different document (HK passport/ID instead of China passport/ID). There may be cases where you're more favored, and there may be cases where you're not.

Originally Posted by dtsm
3. does China permit dual citizenship? I always thought the answer was no?
A Mainlander upon voluntary acquisition of a foreign nationality automatically loses Chinese nationality. Continuing to use an unexpired Chinese passport is illegal. A HK Chinese national, however, remains Chinese unless he goes to fill out papers in Wan Chai to relinquish Chinese nationality (with proofs that you have some other nationality), and his foreign nationality (and associated rights) is not recognized in Mainland/HK/Macau as long as you remain a Chinese national.

Last edited by HkCaGu; Mar 18, 2012 at 9:38 pm
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 8:16 am
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by HkCaGu
and his foreign nationality (and associated rights) is not recognized in Mainland/HK/Macau as long as you remain a Chinese national.
There are a few exceptions depending on the consular agreement between that foreign country and China.

Canada is one of those exceptions. If a Canadian enters China (not HKSAR) on a Canadian passport, that person is entitled to, at least on paper in accordance with the consular agreement between China and Canada, full Canadian consular protection and assistance regardless of the person’s place of birth or national origin. A Canadian who chooses to enter China with a Return Home Permit voluntarily forfeits that right to Canadian consular protection and assistance whilst in China. It’s a personal choice and there is no right or wrong answer. Obviously, entering China with a RHP has far fewer conditions of stay than entering with a foreign passport and China visa.

I have heard hearsay that once you apply for a HKSAR passport, you will not be able to apply for a visa on your foreign passports. I do not have official confirmation to that effect. I do not have a HKSAR passport, so I don't know.

Similarly, anyone with a foreign passport but enters HKSAR with their permanent HKID card forfeits the right to consular protection and assistance of that foreign country whilst in HKSAR.

Last edited by Clipper801; Mar 19, 2012 at 9:20 am
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 8:22 am
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by dtsm
3. does China permit dual citizenship? I always thought the answer was no?
Holders of HKSAR passports (not mainland China passports) may, in addition to BN(O) passports, hold other foreign passports which in effect, allowing multiple nationalities.

I always consider HKSAR passports to be a subset of the Chinese nationality similar to BN(O) being a special subset of the British nationality.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 8:56 am
  #19  
 
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Thank you both [Clipper and HK]
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 9:06 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by HkCaGu
Being a Mainland Chinese citizen alone doesn't give you the right to own property/business anywhere in the country. HK residency is simply a Chinese residency outside the registration/huji/hukou system with a different document (HK passport/ID instead of China passport/ID). There may be cases where you're more favored, and there may be cases where you're not.
Exactly. Plenty of HKers have bought properties in China one-way or another, and many of them actually live there for good, as properties are still significantly less expensive. Every morning, plenty of schoolkids commute from Shenzhen to their schools in Hong Kong.
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 1:46 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by dtsm
1. once you enter china with return home permit, can you stay as long as you wish without having to leave China or apply for any other visa?
In theory - no restriction. In practice - until the validity of your document expires.

Originally Posted by dtsm
2. can you own property or apply to start a business, like other citizens that actually reside in China?
Ultimately yes (through a lengthy process).

Originally Posted by dtsm
3. does China permit dual citizenship? I always thought the answer was no?
If you are from Mainland, then sorry - no. But if you are from Hong Kong or Macau, yes - simply China will not recognize it when you are within Chinese territories and you get no consular protection.

Originally Posted by dtsm
4. i won't ask about the voting part
Yes - but it is complicated.
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 8:05 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by garykung
.....
- simply China will not recognize it when you are within Chinese territories and you get no consular protection.
.....
Not always true.

This is a function of the specific consular agreement between the foreign country and China.
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 3:01 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by Clipper801
Not always true.

This is a function of the specific consular agreement between the foreign country and China.
I think an issue came up with regards to the BN(O) status being recognized in China, but normal British citizenship should be enough.
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Old Mar 23, 2012, 9:12 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by CX HK
I think an issue came up with regards to the BN(O) status being recognized in China, but normal British citizenship should be enough.

EXCEPTION: British Citizenship acquired by Chinese Nationals in HK through the “British Nationality Selection Scheme” is not recognised by China. That particular group of British Citizens are excluded from British consular protection and assistance whilst in HKSAR and China. In all other cases, entry using the UK passport is necessary.

Last edited by Clipper801; Mar 25, 2012 at 12:38 pm
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 4:13 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by Clipper801
EXCEPTION: British Citizenship acquired by Chinese Nationals in HK through the “British Nationality Selection Scheme” is not recognised by China. That particular group of British Citizens are excluded from British consular protection and assistance whilst in HKSAR and China. In all other cases, entry using the UK passport is necessary.
So is it not possible to enter China using a British passport (British citizen) if your birth place says "Hong Kong"? And when you say "excluded from British consular protection", this implies that the UK agrees that these citizens are actually not citizens (or at least not treated like one) while in China.

A confusing issue all around - just like how it always has been.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 5:32 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by CX HK
So is it not possible to enter China using a British passport (British citizen) if your birth place says "Hong Kong"? And when you say "excluded from British consular protection", this implies that the UK agrees that these citizens are actually not citizens (or at least not treated like one) while in China.

A confusing issue all around - just like how it always has been.
1. It is possible to use BC Passport to enter China, providing you have a visa.

2. If the person is also eligible for a HRP, he or she won't be eligible for consular protection.
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 6:32 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by CX HK
So is it not possible to enter China using a British passport (British citizen) if your birth place says "Hong Kong"? And when you say "excluded from British consular protection", this implies that the UK agrees that these citizens are actually not citizens (or at least not treated like one) while in China.

A confusing issue all around - just like how it always has been.
The place of birth is irrelevant. It's how your "British Citizen" status was acquired.

British Citizenship acquired by Chinese Nationals in HK through the “British Nationality Selection Scheme” is not recognised by China.

If you did not acquire the British Citizenship through the "British Nationality Selection Scheme" and entered HKSAR or China with your British passport, you should be entitled to full British consular protection and assistance.

The key is whether you're a Chinese national in HK and obtained your British Citizen status through the "British Nationality Selection Scheme". If you fall into this category, notwithstanding that your UK passport nationality is British Citizen and you enter HKSAR and China with the UK passport, you are not entitled to UK consular protection and assistance whilst in HKSAR and China.

All categories of UK passports are valid for travel to China. Whether the China authority will grant a visa for the particular type of UK passport is an entirely different question. It also begs the question of how the Chinese authority would know how one acquired the "British Citizen" status, whether it was through the "British Nationality Selection Scheme" or not unless the Brits have told them, or those passports have special easily idenitifiable prefix or suffix.

Last edited by Clipper801; Apr 2, 2012 at 6:28 am
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Old Mar 31, 2012, 6:38 pm
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by garykung
2. If the person is also eligible for a HRP, he or she won't be eligible for consular protection.
This statement is not always true.

In case of British Citizen, only applicable to those Chinese Nationals who acquired British Citizenship in HK through the “British Nationality Selection Scheme”.

For other countries, it depends on the specific consular agreement between the individual country and China.

In all cases except for the special category of British Citizen stated above, the pre-requisite is to enter China with the foreign passport, not HRP.

Last edited by Clipper801; Apr 2, 2012 at 6:41 am
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 12:21 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by Clipper801
It also begs the question of how the Chinese authority would know how one acquired the "British Citizen" status, whether it was through the "British Nationality Selection Scheme" or not unless the Brits have told them, or those passports have special easily idenitifiable prefix or suffix.
In practice, these British Citizen passports are indistinguishable from other British Citizen passports. Indeed the Hong Kong Immigration Department publicly admitted this shortly after the 1997 handover when they appealed to holders of such passports not to use them, but publicly admitted they couldn't identify them.

I also know people who acquired their passports through the British Nationality Selection Scheme who have used these passports to travel to China.
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Old Apr 3, 2012, 12:38 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by dgittings
In practice, these British Citizen passports are indistinguishable from other British Citizen passports. Indeed the Hong Kong Immigration Department publicly admitted this shortly after the 1997 handover when they appealed to holders of such passports not to use them, but publicly admitted they couldn't identify them.

I also know people who acquired their passports through the British Nationality Selection Scheme who have used these passports to travel to China.
So the practical difference has nothing to do with travel/entry/exit. It only matters if you get into legal situations such as getting arrested. If the Chinese government investigates and finds out you're part of the scheme then you're not entitled to UK consular assistance. Am I right?
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