Upgrades in Advance for Lifetime Diamond, Diamond, and Gold Members
Nov 11, 2021, 10:09 pm
#61
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,399
One weakness of Hilton's loyalty program at the moment, is that it's too easy to get top tier relative to other hotel chains (because of Amex) so having top tier is less valuable comparatively speaking. Marriott's 100 nights + $20k USD spend is a high hurdle, and Hyatt's 60 nights is also not that easy considering the smaller footprint than Hilton. Some progress can be achieved with both Marriott and Hyatt via credit cards who give night credits but not to the same extent as Hilton.
Now that Hilton makes a distinction for upgrades between LTD and Diamond, there will be a definite advantage to people who stayed in Hiltons a lot and have reached Diamond organically, which was a fair complaint in the past. At least in theory, it can help narrow the gap with Marriott in terms of how many other guests are competing for suites. Hyatt is somewhat less comparable to Hilton but LT Globalists are sometimes also treated better than Globalists so Hilton's move will help in that regard too.
Another problem with Hilton in the past (at least based on my travel pattern), has been suite upgrades were less likely than Marriott and Hyatt in many cities because more Hilton hotels decided suites were out of bounds for upgrades, whereas with many Hyatt hotels I knew my odds are very close to 100% to get a suite, if a suite was available. I agree with others that this upgrade system won't magically make stingy Hilton hotels become generous overnight, however it might help give guests more ammunition to push back on the lack of upgrades when suites are available, maybe not in all hotels, but in some. Having a more tangible system for suite upgrades can also help improve the likelihood of upgrades in the long-term as some hotels might loosen up their views regarding upgrades modestly over time. Changing mindsets can be a gradual process and a new automated upgrade system can help in that regard.
So overall I think it's a positive. We'll see how the implementation goes.
Now that Hilton makes a distinction for upgrades between LTD and Diamond, there will be a definite advantage to people who stayed in Hiltons a lot and have reached Diamond organically, which was a fair complaint in the past. At least in theory, it can help narrow the gap with Marriott in terms of how many other guests are competing for suites. Hyatt is somewhat less comparable to Hilton but LT Globalists are sometimes also treated better than Globalists so Hilton's move will help in that regard too.
Another problem with Hilton in the past (at least based on my travel pattern), has been suite upgrades were less likely than Marriott and Hyatt in many cities because more Hilton hotels decided suites were out of bounds for upgrades, whereas with many Hyatt hotels I knew my odds are very close to 100% to get a suite, if a suite was available. I agree with others that this upgrade system won't magically make stingy Hilton hotels become generous overnight, however it might help give guests more ammunition to push back on the lack of upgrades when suites are available, maybe not in all hotels, but in some. Having a more tangible system for suite upgrades can also help improve the likelihood of upgrades in the long-term as some hotels might loosen up their views regarding upgrades modestly over time. Changing mindsets can be a gradual process and a new automated upgrade system can help in that regard.
So overall I think it's a positive. We'll see how the implementation goes.
If you throw out giving people spending 100K a night at the top of the chain I'd be fine with it. Do what the airlines do and give LTD diamonds first shot at upgrades and go on highest amount paid and rewards stays rank at the bottom, then go to diamonds, then golds, etc.
I thought suite upgrades were only available to diamonds anyway. If the 100K is per stay it won't be very hard at all to have a multi-night stay totalling that as diluted as Hilton points are.
Nov 11, 2021, 10:27 pm
#62
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
I don't think I have seen anything in writing yet about the upgrades for 100k redemption stays so I remain partially skeptical. So far it's only based on what Lobby wrote, right? So once we get more details, it might very well be that we will realize suite upgrades get #1 priority for 100k reward stays of LTDs and Diamonds only, but that the random guy without status on a 100k redemption will continue to be at the bottom of the pecking order. I will believe it when I see it.
Nov 12, 2021, 7:18 am
#64
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: No. California
Programs: UA MP HH LTD
Posts: 2,040
Nov 12, 2021, 7:44 am
#65
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 240
I don't think I have seen anything in writing yet about the upgrades for 100k redemption stays so I remain partially skeptical. So far it's only based on what Lobby wrote, right? So once we get more details, it might very well be that we will realize suite upgrades get #1 priority for 100k reward stays of LTDs and Diamonds only, but that the random guy without status on a 100k redemption will continue to be at the bottom of the pecking order. I will believe it when I see it.
Nov 12, 2021, 10:24 am
#66
Join Date: Oct 2019
Programs: Flying Blue, Hilton Honors, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 2,402
It doesn't drive DAL's for top tier. DAL is devaluing GUC's and requires $250K in spend to be a credit card diamond. And upgrades with DAL are based on fare class. A full Y diamond is first in line for an upgrade and someone an awards ticket is last in line for the upgrade and I don't even think silvers on an award ticket can get upgraded.
The marketing etc. things which make DL different from UA/AA (from allowing full top status solely from card spend to rollover MQM to Pay With Miles to having better SkyClubs without having D1 lounges) are all almost certainly driven by Amex.
The only thing that will likely reverse the US breakfast credit is Aspire/Surpass holders citing it as a reason for canceling the cards.
Nov 12, 2021, 3:36 pm
#67
Join Date: Oct 2019
Programs: Flying Blue, Hilton Honors, Amtrak Guest Rewards
Posts: 2,402
Conversely, for the Aspire, HLT gets about $400 of the AF. They cover the resort and the Conrad/WA credits, which after breakage and the fact that Hilton gets about 20% of the charges which triggered the credits is a net of about $200. That's equivalent earnings to $5k of room revenue from a Diamond: right there that's more than most who are doing 30 one-night stays for Diamond or 50 nights on corporate/local-negotiated rates (half-off rack is not uncommon) and 10 award nights a year. If that Aspire holder is putting spend on the card, the value increases to the point where I'd suspect that, prepandemic, the median Aspire holder is in the top 25% of Diamonds by value to HLT. Since 2020, the median Aspire holder is probably a top 10% Diamond.
Now, it's true that a credit card diamond isn't worth that much to someone in the hotel business (i.e. a franchisee), but J. Random Diamond with 60 nights who walks into a hotel they've never stayed at before isn't worth that much to the hotel either: a Silver who stays 10 nights a year at the same hotel is worth a lot more to that hotel than a one-shot Diamond, and that Silver may well have a note in their file that if they want a room they get upgraded at booking and J. Random Diamond will have to beg at check-in for an upgrade.
So the new Hilton changes, reading between the lines, take upgrade discretion away from the properties. Chain loyalty vs. property loyalty now matters, at least as long as the hotel isn't close to full.
Nov 12, 2021, 7:04 pm
#68
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
That's what I suspected. Thank you for confirming!
Nov 12, 2021, 7:08 pm
#69
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Homeless
Programs: Hyatt Glob; Hilton Dia; Marriott AMB; Accor Dia; IHG Dia Amb; GHA Tit
Posts: 4,838
I am looking forward to see how it works in practice and how hotels follow it. There are some hotels where property loyalty will be to my advantage over a first-time LTD, and other hotels where chain loyalty will be to my advantage over the Golds who have stayed there many times whereas I might be a first time guest. I expect the new rules will sometimes be in my favor, sometimes against.
Nov 13, 2021, 10:23 am
#70
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Manhattan, Palm Beach Island, San Francisco, Boston, & Hong Kong
Programs: Lifetime United Global Services, Delta Plat, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Ambassador, & Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,165
Remember, HLT isn't in the hotel business. They're basically a booking and marketing platform for hotels. They get a fairly small portion of the room revenue, especially when the value of the points given in the various promotions is factored in (when there's a double point promo, the net after granting 30 points per $ to a Diamond is about 4%).
Conversely, for the Aspire, HLT gets about $400 of the AF. They cover the resort and the Conrad/WA credits, which after breakage and the fact that Hilton gets about 20% of the charges which triggered the credits is a net of about $200. That's equivalent earnings to $5k of room revenue from a Diamond: right there that's more than most who are doing 30 one-night stays for Diamond or 50 nights on corporate/local-negotiated rates (half-off rack is not uncommon) and 10 award nights a year. If that Aspire holder is putting spend on the card, the value increases to the point where I'd suspect that, prepandemic, the median Aspire holder is in the top 25% of Diamonds by value to HLT. Since 2020, the median Aspire holder is probably a top 10% Diamond.
Conversely, for the Aspire, HLT gets about $400 of the AF. They cover the resort and the Conrad/WA credits, which after breakage and the fact that Hilton gets about 20% of the charges which triggered the credits is a net of about $200. That's equivalent earnings to $5k of room revenue from a Diamond: right there that's more than most who are doing 30 one-night stays for Diamond or 50 nights on corporate/local-negotiated rates (half-off rack is not uncommon) and 10 award nights a year. If that Aspire holder is putting spend on the card, the value increases to the point where I'd suspect that, prepandemic, the median Aspire holder is in the top 25% of Diamonds by value to HLT. Since 2020, the median Aspire holder is probably a top 10% Diamond.
Nov 13, 2021, 10:31 am
#71
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: NYC/LA
Programs: DL Plat, AA Plat Pro, Marriott Titanium, IHG Diamond Amb
Posts: 7,487
Remember, HLT isn't in the hotel business. They're basically a booking and marketing platform for hotels. They get a fairly small portion of the room revenue, especially when the value of the points given in the various promotions is factored in (when there's a double point promo, the net after granting 30 points per $ to a Diamond is about 4%).
Conversely, for the Aspire, HLT gets about $400 of the AF. They cover the resort and the Conrad/WA credits, which after breakage and the fact that Hilton gets about 20% of the charges which triggered the credits is a net of about $200. That's equivalent earnings to $5k of room revenue from a Diamond: right there that's more than most who are doing 30 one-night stays for Diamond or 50 nights on corporate/local-negotiated rates (half-off rack is not uncommon) and 10 award nights a year. If that Aspire holder is putting spend on the card, the value increases to the point where I'd suspect that, prepandemic, the median Aspire holder is in the top 25% of Diamonds by value to HLT. Since 2020, the median Aspire holder is probably a top 10% Diamond.
Conversely, for the Aspire, HLT gets about $400 of the AF. They cover the resort and the Conrad/WA credits, which after breakage and the fact that Hilton gets about 20% of the charges which triggered the credits is a net of about $200. That's equivalent earnings to $5k of room revenue from a Diamond: right there that's more than most who are doing 30 one-night stays for Diamond or 50 nights on corporate/local-negotiated rates (half-off rack is not uncommon) and 10 award nights a year. If that Aspire holder is putting spend on the card, the value increases to the point where I'd suspect that, prepandemic, the median Aspire holder is in the top 25% of Diamonds by value to HLT. Since 2020, the median Aspire holder is probably a top 10% Diamond.
Nov 17, 2021, 3:10 pm
#72
Original Member and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Kansas City, MO, USA
Programs: DL PM/MM, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Glob, HH Dia, National ECE, Hertz PC
Posts: 16,579
I have a stay at the HHV for Friday using points for a "Coastal View" room, got the email even more than three days in advance, upgraded to a Rainbow Tower Oceanfront room. Still debating whether to use that points reservation (180,000 HHonors Points) or a paid Prive reservation at the Hyatt Regency ($1,000 cash), I do like me my Regency Club lounge, even if it isn't what it used to be, and the Prive rate includes free breakfast plus $100 property credit compared to a $30/day credit at the HHV.
Nov 20, 2021, 8:20 am
#73
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: DK
Programs: A3 Gold, BA Silver
Posts: 869
Well my first upgrade under this program just came in. I got upgraded from a base king room in DoubleTree Krakow H&CC to a one bedroom suite (Basically he biggest room they are selling). It is at least nice to know in advance. The hotel is by all looks rather empty during the next few weeks so that also plays into it.
Nov 20, 2021, 11:34 am
#74
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicagoland/ORD
Programs: UA Million Miler (Gold), Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,458
I didn't get an email but saw in the app that I was upgraded this week from coastal room to Rainbow oceanfront with two lanais at HHV. Booked with amex free night cert. Best upgrade I've ever had there.
Nov 21, 2021, 5:17 am
#75
Join Date: Dec 2006
Programs: LH SEN, FB Plat., HH D.
Posts: 5,050
The mails are good if you get a reasonable upgrade, otherwise can be the contrary.
This week I received one that was ‘King Size to King Size with view’, at a property where the view is irrelevant in both cases.
At the same time they had plenty of higher category rooms for sale.
The hotel was not very convenient but the rate was very low and Uber is available and cheap in the city I was staying.
The mail put me off and I decided to cancel the booking and stay somewhere else. Probably a childish decision but had a nice stay in the property I finally booked.
This week I received one that was ‘King Size to King Size with view’, at a property where the view is irrelevant in both cases.
At the same time they had plenty of higher category rooms for sale.
The hotel was not very convenient but the rate was very low and Uber is available and cheap in the city I was staying.
The mail put me off and I decided to cancel the booking and stay somewhere else. Probably a childish decision but had a nice stay in the property I finally booked.