IsleOfMan

To be fair, my sample size is probably equally as statistically insignificant, but it's all I have to go on.

pinniped

Each one of us has our own anecdotes, but I see the following consistently enough on FT, from Marriott and Hilton fans alike, to accept these as reasonably true:

- The average Hampton Inn is better than the average Fairfield Inn. Since we're comparing roadside motel vs. roadside motel here, people are usually talking about basic quality - not elite treatment. If you think Hamptons are gross, then there's a good chance you'll think Fairfields are grosser than gross.
- The average HGI is preferred by FT'ers over the average Courtyard, in part because of the elite benefits and in part because HGI's are mostly new and consistent. The wrinkle here is that Marriott has begun building near-FS urban Courtyards, and there are Asian Courtyards that provide elite benefits. Most FT threads about CY vs. HGI are thinking about the older, suburban, limited-service Courtyards.

There are lots of "elites hate Courtyard and Courtyard hates elites" threads on the Marriott board. On this board, people are mostly upbeat on HGI.

RI vs. HW isn't really a burning topic. Both have their fans.

ES vs. SHS isn't seen as a true head-to-head by most, but both seem to have their fans.

Funny someone mentioned a bad HGI in Phoenix. I recently stayed at a bad Embassy there (North Phoenix). I've also stayed at a really weird (although not bad per se) Doubletree there near the airport. My HH resort experiences there have been very good. Maybe it's just a place where you gotta avoid the lower ends of the chain???

IsleOfMan

This really probably hits more on the inconsistency of Doubletree as a whole since it's very often used as a conversion-brand for full-service properties that want to join HHonors but sometimes either aren't up to the Hilton brand standards or are in too close geographic proximity to another established Hilton property. There are also extremely high end boutique properties that operate under "Such and Such, a Doubletree by Hilton" (Arctic Club, The Wit, etc.) which leave you with three brands in the name of the property and even less understanding of what Doubletree actually represents since the name is applied to some of the best and some of the worst properties in HHonors with the only qualifier being that they're full service. While Marriott has a lot of brands with overlap and fragmentation, they don't have ANYTHING that's so widely and poorly defined as Doubletree... though the introduction of Delta Hotels in the US market as their lower brand-standard full-service chain could turn into that type of situation over time IF they let it.

nk15

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linsj

Marriott gold is pretty much useless to me except for the extra points on stays. Almost all my stays are at resorts or Courtyards where free breakfast is not a benefit. Not so with Hiltons, even if it's (rarely) not a full breakfast. I'm a huge Garden Inn fan with its consistenly good breakfast for golds/diamonds (plus yogurt and fruit to go for a light lunch or supper).

Firewind

This:

I submit that the great majority of the issue with the Doubletree brand is the inconsistency that came with it when it was adopted. It's been long enough by now that even relatively frequent travelers shouldn't be surprised, and should research each property. Hilton never tried to change their brand standard, and never promised us a rose garden. I'm just glad never to have encountered a crummy one.

IsleOfMan

I think this is the issue with most conversion-oriented brands, which is what DT is now. I think there's been one new-construction DT launch in the last few years compared to ~100 conversions in just the last year. There are far more converted properties than legacy acquired properties now (many of which, themselves, have converted to other brands in and out of the HHonors program). You see it similarly with Four Points in the SPG program, possibly with Delta in the Marriott program (though it's too soon to tell... the only acquired properties are in Canada and they did a great job with the Delta Orlando), and it's rampant in the limited-service franchise brands.

I found a pretty interesting white paper on Hotel Brand Conversion and the most surprising tidbit, to me, was that properties improve most of their KPIs when converting down-scale but rarely improve when making lateral or up-scale conversions. This WSJ article is pretty interesting too.

Firewind

Good one. In fact better than most such commentary. So true.

pinniped

Not surprising, really. My guess is that a lot of the reflagging midscale/upscale hotels weren't punching up to their weight, which is why moving down a notch improved their performance.

I am, however, interested in those two Economy properties that reflagged to Upper-Upscale. In our HH terms, that would be a Hampton fancying itself as a Conrad. (Although I'm going to guess they were *not* hotels in the MR/SPG/HH/HY chains. Flyertalk would have already totally freaked out about them if they were.)

IsleOfMan

Keep in mind, they're defining Radisson as "Upscale", so I wouldn't be shocked if Doubletree or the likes fell into their "Upper Scale" category. We often forget just how much lower you can go than Hampton just because it's currently the lowest tier of our program. I'd say Hampton would fall at the higher end of their "Midscale" category and definitely not in the "Economy" category. Even the new Tru brand being launched by Hilton is aiming at the lower-end of the "Midscale" class which Hampton has elevated itself from in past decade or more).

Based on that, a full renovation of an off-brand labeled as economy into a Doubletree labeled as "Upper Scale" might be somewhat extreme but not completely unthinkable or even completely unworkable if the property were an older full-service property that had been previously converted down-brand to economy and, with a major reno, is converted back up-market to what the study calls "Upper Scale".

pinniped

Fair enough...I guess they could put the Motel 6's of the world in their own category.

Plus some of the brand families now have their "boutique" brand. I think of urban areas where the economy brand might occupy a 8-10 story building not dissimilar from a smaller independent luxury hotel. You can't renovate that building to have all of the meeting space, restaurants, and other amenities of a major Hilton or Marriott...but you certainly could reinvent it as Autograph Collection.

IsleOfMan

That's probably even a better example than mine, or a subset of my example that probably makes the most sense.

I get the feelings these are fairly common industry categorizations. I noticed this when Hilton launched Tru as a "Midscale" brand, which I thought an odd categorization based on my own standards, but then realized how much there is that resides below it. I think the "Economy" category in the study definitely does capture the Motel 6, Super 8, EconoLodge, HoJo, Travelodge, lower-end Best Western, etc type properties you'd commonly see for $45/night on the side of the interstate... and some of those brands do have properties in dense urban locations that could see a complete reno into a Autograph/Curio/etc type boutique, especially if the particular area is in the midst of gentrification.

Christopher Kidd

I'm an Amex platinum card holder. My platinum gets me gold at Hilton and SPG. Since the buyout from Marriott, I was able to successfully link my SPG gold to marriott gold. So yes, there is at least a credit card that offer it.

retiredfromhilton

Tru was concocted mainly from Hilton's recognition that there is a demographic (i.e. those under 40) who would rather sleep in a cardboard box than at a Hampton Inn. Hampton's guests are, in the main, aged - one good flu season and the chain is in trouble.

submonte

LOL

Well I (50+) tried out a Moxy by Marriott recently (Berlin East Train Station). The room was perfect like at Hampton by Hilton. I got a bit confused only by the front desk/bar/lounge concept when I arrived after 11 p.m. or so. Everything dark, some strange music and illumination, felt like if I ended up in an opium den (must admit I was a bit short-tempered after a horrible train trip when the barmen checked me in). But generally I have no problem (for my typical 1 night - 8h stays) with hotels like Tru, Moxy or what ever comes next by the hotel industry targeted more on younger generation.

Re OPīs question about Hilton Gold vs. Marriott Gold I think both are ok but Hilton Gold much easier to achieve and Hilton is more generous with points earning.

Practically Hilton Gold is more worth to members who mainly use the midscale range plus HGI (no lounge available but always breakfast).

Marriott Gold brings more for upper upscale and premium properties with their guaranteed lounge access (if open also weekends), even breakfast at luxury properties like Boscolo (and Marriott has a better footprint in these categories at least in Continental Europe) and can be compared more to Hilton Diamond in this respect (who does not grant breakfast at W-A such as Marriott not at RC).