Upgrades....what's the real story and is Honors falling behind?
Jun 25, 2003, 9:28 am
#1
Original Member
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Reno, NV (RNO)
Programs: AA Platinum, AS, UA, DL, HHonors Gold, Marriott LTP, Hyatt, IHG Platinum
Posts: 4,707
Upgrades....what's the real story and is Honors falling behind?
I continue to read posts about people expecting upgrades because they are Diamond, Gold, or Silver. I have been Diamond for over 7 years and I have read through all the information on the HHonors site, as well as the Diamond material sent to me this year, and the only reference I can find to an upgrade is the part about being put on the tower or executive level at Hilton or Doubletree properties with such accommondations. There are no benefits stated, or even implied anywhere that I can see, that suggest status members will receive a suite, a better view, a room with a whirlpool, etc. And for non-Hilton or non-Doubletree properties, such as Hampton Inn or Embassy Suites, there is nothing about even receiving a larger or preferred room. Did I miss something somewhere?
If the above is correct, that upgrades (other than a tower/exec level room) are not really a benefit, then I have to wonder if HHonors is not falling behind the competition, namely Starwood and Marriott.
Starwood has long promised the "best available room" at time of check-in. In most instances this includes larger rooms, view rooms, and even suites.
Marriott has never done much in the way of upgrades. However, that appears to be changing. Over on the Marriott forum, word is out that Marriott Rewards appears to be following Starwood by offering Gold and Platinum level members (equivalent to HHonors Gold and Diamond) the "best available room" on check-in. Indications are that Marriott Corporate is in the process of getting the word to individual properties and that "best available" is to include suites. Recent experiences by a number of people at a variety of properties ranging from Fairfield Inns to full service Marriotts suggests that the change is real....status members are being upgraded.
If the Marriott changes stick, it would seem that HHonors is now the laggard in making upgrades a true benefit. Thoughts?
If the above is correct, that upgrades (other than a tower/exec level room) are not really a benefit, then I have to wonder if HHonors is not falling behind the competition, namely Starwood and Marriott.
Starwood has long promised the "best available room" at time of check-in. In most instances this includes larger rooms, view rooms, and even suites.
Marriott has never done much in the way of upgrades. However, that appears to be changing. Over on the Marriott forum, word is out that Marriott Rewards appears to be following Starwood by offering Gold and Platinum level members (equivalent to HHonors Gold and Diamond) the "best available room" on check-in. Indications are that Marriott Corporate is in the process of getting the word to individual properties and that "best available" is to include suites. Recent experiences by a number of people at a variety of properties ranging from Fairfield Inns to full service Marriotts suggests that the change is real....status members are being upgraded.
If the Marriott changes stick, it would seem that HHonors is now the laggard in making upgrades a true benefit. Thoughts?
Jun 25, 2003, 9:35 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Over the Bay Bridge, CA
Programs: Jumbo mas
Posts: 38,633
I don't call it "falling behind." I call it "this is your package of benefits". If a hotel goes above and beyond, good for us, but otherwise, if you are HH Gold or Diamond, you are most likely going to be getting airline miles and eating some sort of breakfast as part of the program. Suite or not, you won't be doing that with SPG.
Jun 25, 2003, 10:23 am
#4
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Seattle WA, USA
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott LT Plat, AS Lounge
Posts: 3,478
Just yesterday I printed out the Hilton benefits from the website. I remember that HGI's do promise to give Golds and Diamonds the best available room. Don't remember what other Hilton brands promise. I'll have to find the link later and check.
Jun 25, 2003, 1:59 pm
#5
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Madison, WI, USA; NW Platinum, Marriott Silver, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 938
See Adam Burke's comments in this thread. I believe this still applies.
http://www.flyertalk.com/pasttalk/ft...ML/000164.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/pasttalk/ft...ML/000164.html
Jun 26, 2003, 8:16 am
#6
Original Member
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Reno, NV (RNO)
Programs: AA Platinum, AS, UA, DL, HHonors Gold, Marriott LTP, Hyatt, IHG Platinum
Posts: 4,707
Here is what I copied today from the HHonors Members Handbook:
"At HHonors hotels that have upgraded types of accommodations, Gold and Diamond VIPs will be upgraded to Hilton Towers Concierge Class at Towers hotels or Executive Level at non-Towers hotels, or to the best available room. Upgraded rooms are subject to availability. At HHonors hotels that do not have upgraded types of accommodations,
Gold and Diamond VIPs will receive additional amenities and/or services, which vary by property. For details and
restrictions, visit hiltonhhonors.com."
This suggests that HHonors hotels may or may not have "upgraded types of accommodations". It's clear if a hotel has an executive/tower level, that an upgrade to that level is a benefit. But what about Hampton Inn, Embassy Suites, HGI, or non-tower Hiltons/Doubletrees? What, if anything, constitutes an "upgraded accommodation" at these properties? Are these hotels free to say they don't offer any upgraded accommodations? The wording in the handbook is simply not clear about what the real benefit is.
As I Diamond, I can count on one hand the number of upgrades I have received over the last 7 years at a Hampton Inn. These usually have been cases where I booked a regular room but received a whirlpool room. Similar story at HGI.
"At HHonors hotels that have upgraded types of accommodations, Gold and Diamond VIPs will be upgraded to Hilton Towers Concierge Class at Towers hotels or Executive Level at non-Towers hotels, or to the best available room. Upgraded rooms are subject to availability. At HHonors hotels that do not have upgraded types of accommodations,
Gold and Diamond VIPs will receive additional amenities and/or services, which vary by property. For details and
restrictions, visit hiltonhhonors.com."
This suggests that HHonors hotels may or may not have "upgraded types of accommodations". It's clear if a hotel has an executive/tower level, that an upgrade to that level is a benefit. But what about Hampton Inn, Embassy Suites, HGI, or non-tower Hiltons/Doubletrees? What, if anything, constitutes an "upgraded accommodation" at these properties? Are these hotels free to say they don't offer any upgraded accommodations? The wording in the handbook is simply not clear about what the real benefit is.
As I Diamond, I can count on one hand the number of upgrades I have received over the last 7 years at a Hampton Inn. These usually have been cases where I booked a regular room but received a whirlpool room. Similar story at HGI.
Jun 26, 2003, 9:57 am
#7
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 22
The strangest thing is that when my husband is traveling alone he frequently receives upgrades and sweet-as-pie service from the front desk. When we travel as a couple...nothing!!!
Hmmm...seems just like when the stewardess looks right through me, but drools over whoever's in 'pants' on the plane!
star
Hmmm...seems just like when the stewardess looks right through me, but drools over whoever's in 'pants' on the plane!
star
Jun 26, 2003, 11:57 am
#8
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 6,084
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MileKing:
As I Diamond, I can count on one hand the number of upgrades I have received over the last 7 years at a Hampton Inn. These usually have been cases where I booked a regular room but received a whirlpool room. Similar story at HGI.</font>
As I Diamond, I can count on one hand the number of upgrades I have received over the last 7 years at a Hampton Inn. These usually have been cases where I booked a regular room but received a whirlpool room. Similar story at HGI.</font>
Jun 26, 2003, 12:45 pm
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold,HH Gold
Posts: 2,751
I have been frequently upgraded as a Gold and then a Diamond. Maybe around 80-90 percent of the time. After I started making an attempt to contact the hotel before my arrival, it has been 100 percent. I stay about half and half between domestic and international. Did not matter for paid or award stay. For what it's worth, I get treated better in Asia than I do domestically but that might be just the culture. That does not mean I don't get treated well here in the US but there is a difference. I will qulaify for diamond for 2004 in about 2 weeks so I am quite satisfied with my treatment from Hilton.
Jun 26, 2003, 7:03 pm
#10
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SAN ; UA 1k; HH Dia; Hertz PC
Posts: 1,447
I've been upgraded almost 95% of the times at all the properties that I could have been. I booked a HGI while on the road today. I saw a sign on a sign while driving, called and booked it and had them cancel the other reservation for a Hampton. I arrived at the hotel within 30 minutes of the reservation and they upgraded me to a suite upon checking in without even asking.
I like the HGI for this reason. They always seem to upgrade me when I check in.
I like the HGI for this reason. They always seem to upgrade me when I check in.
Jun 26, 2003, 9:14 pm
#11
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DL-PM
Posts: 863
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by star:
The strangest thing is that when my husband is traveling alone he frequently receives upgrades and sweet-as-pie service from the front desk. When we travel as a couple...nothing!!!
Hmmm...seems just like when the stewardess looks right through me, but drools over whoever's in 'pants' on the plane!
star</font>
The strangest thing is that when my husband is traveling alone he frequently receives upgrades and sweet-as-pie service from the front desk. When we travel as a couple...nothing!!!
Hmmm...seems just like when the stewardess looks right through me, but drools over whoever's in 'pants' on the plane!
star</font>
Jun 27, 2003, 6:35 am
#12
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA LTPLT UA1P Hilton Dia Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,183
59 Stays and 65 nights so far this year. ONE SUITE upgrade as a Diamond: Salt Lake Hilton Downtown. About 80% of my stays are at Hilton's the rest a mix of embassy and doubletree's. SPG upgrades are 100%
Jun 27, 2003, 7:27 am
#13
In Memoriam
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Easton, CT, USA
Programs: ua prem exec, Former hilton diamond
Posts: 31,801
As Diamond I'm running probably 80% upgrades this year, some to some incredible rooms. I don't think they are falling behind at all, indeed there are some trips coming up where we normally would not have used a hilton, now we are to make sure we keep our status.
And yes there are also properties that don't even give you the bottle of water, but those we just won't go back to.
And yes there are also properties that don't even give you the bottle of water, but those we just won't go back to.
Jun 29, 2003, 7:54 am
#14
Ambassador: World of Hyatt
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: San Diego,CA
Posts: 10,088
Greetings all,
Very interesting thread and title.
In my opinion Hilton is not falling behind at all on the upgrade front.
Actually improving year by year.
With so many properties it varies.
Knowing which property is embracing the program/benfits is key here.
Most do.
There are without a doubt some that don't get it or care.
They are in the minority for the most part.
However when HH is compared to the other programs and brands it may appear a little less generous on paper.
With regard to both Embassy Suites and Doubletree brands....
Keep in mind when they were aquired by Hilton they were never originally built and designed with The HH program in mind.
More of a one size fits all mentality.
I agree much needs to be done to make these brands more desirable to HH elite members in the coming future including but not limited to floors with special treatment and or ammenities or some other kinds of desirable hooks.
The Hilton management team out there in Beverly Hills have done an extrodinary job in making hotels more compliant worldwide and understanding of the rules that exist more fully each and every year.
They also have had a much tougher job at it with their growing collection of brands.
Just think of the amount of properties and brands they have added to their portfolio over the past few years.
Then the launching of the Hilton Garden Inns.
There are enormous challenges in orchestrating all of this and keeping it all consistent.
It will still take years before many more potential benefits are created or extracted out of these aquired brands for HH members.
Right now its simply for many great added choices in many markets .
For fans of these brands its a nice fit into the program to stay with the ability to earn.
The training manuals sent to the various HH hotels are quite impressive these days.
That is if the hotels actually read them
Most frontlines do remember/retain a good deal of their training.
However on the day you check in the staff may have turned over so retraining of them starts all over again with the new agent.
In some cases the guest may actully know a lot more about the program !
Thankfully most know their job out there reasonably well.
A few could take a refresher class !
Back in 1999 I had a conversation with the
Starwood brass in White Plains about the requirements of retaining Platinum status with the Starwood Preferred Guest program.
At the time it had jut become 25 stays or 50 nites.
Previously Gold status with Westin Premier was at 10 stays a year or 20 nites.
Gold back then was the top tier.
The new Platinum requirement became 2 and a half times more required stays and nights over the former Westin Premier program which merged into the SPG program.
An awful lot to ask of the guest when the benefits/earnings were for the most part the same.
I suggested the needed hook which seemed pretty obvious at the time.
A suite upgrade should be considered at the time of check in based upon availability.
My suggestion was not warmly received by any means.
The hotels would never go for it.
There would be to much demand.
It would cost the properties to much........the list went on.
Low and behold it happened 4 months later when the terms and conditions were rewritten for the second year of SPG.
And to date it became what I think to be one of the most popular aspects of the program for Starwood Platinum members.
That made it tougher once again for all the programs and brands to compete.
As a result members of other programs now seem to expect it or wish for it even if it is or was not a part of their regular published benefits. Self included !
My experience with Hilton and especially related to the upgrade process is really what I called the unpublished benefits.
Especially for Diamond members.
Being very kind in person at check in and asking the front line or in house resrvations for my actual preference of guest room goes along way.
Demand at the time factors in as well.
As the increased demand for business within hotels intesifies in many cities I think you will find more cooperation then ever before. Hotels today are now becoming more aware of what other brands/programs are offering.
I think you will see more hotels look to satisfy their guests with more unpublished benefits.
When booking on line state your desired wishes .
Corner room or suite consisderation perhaps for Diamonds .
Here and there if they are able to
I find the hotels more then happy to make for happy satisfied guests.
Keep in mind upgrade procedures are much tougher at certain very popular resort destinations where many properties have in house rules and do not allow for front line agents to decide or be able to change room categories other then what the hotel normally allows or blocks.
Other then a one class category upgrade or other rules that the hotel may normally stipulate.
And with some luck and timing even those rules can and may be broken.
Hilton still has the best Gold tier program of any of the majors.
Diamond is a fully earned tier and carries some weight with many a property.
And Gold is as most know reasonably easy to earn or obtain through special promotions.
Thanks for the topic and all the feedback here
Happy Travels and upgrades !
------------------
AA & Starwood,Marriott Platinum
Hyatt, Hilton Diamond
Swissotel Club Gold
U/A 1 K
[This message has been edited by 777 global mile hound (edited 06-29-2003).]
Very interesting thread and title.
In my opinion Hilton is not falling behind at all on the upgrade front.
Actually improving year by year.
With so many properties it varies.
Knowing which property is embracing the program/benfits is key here.
Most do.
There are without a doubt some that don't get it or care.
They are in the minority for the most part.
However when HH is compared to the other programs and brands it may appear a little less generous on paper.
With regard to both Embassy Suites and Doubletree brands....
Keep in mind when they were aquired by Hilton they were never originally built and designed with The HH program in mind.
More of a one size fits all mentality.
I agree much needs to be done to make these brands more desirable to HH elite members in the coming future including but not limited to floors with special treatment and or ammenities or some other kinds of desirable hooks.
The Hilton management team out there in Beverly Hills have done an extrodinary job in making hotels more compliant worldwide and understanding of the rules that exist more fully each and every year.
They also have had a much tougher job at it with their growing collection of brands.
Just think of the amount of properties and brands they have added to their portfolio over the past few years.
Then the launching of the Hilton Garden Inns.
There are enormous challenges in orchestrating all of this and keeping it all consistent.
It will still take years before many more potential benefits are created or extracted out of these aquired brands for HH members.
Right now its simply for many great added choices in many markets .
For fans of these brands its a nice fit into the program to stay with the ability to earn.
The training manuals sent to the various HH hotels are quite impressive these days.
That is if the hotels actually read them
Most frontlines do remember/retain a good deal of their training.
However on the day you check in the staff may have turned over so retraining of them starts all over again with the new agent.
In some cases the guest may actully know a lot more about the program !
Thankfully most know their job out there reasonably well.
A few could take a refresher class !
Back in 1999 I had a conversation with the
Starwood brass in White Plains about the requirements of retaining Platinum status with the Starwood Preferred Guest program.
At the time it had jut become 25 stays or 50 nites.
Previously Gold status with Westin Premier was at 10 stays a year or 20 nites.
Gold back then was the top tier.
The new Platinum requirement became 2 and a half times more required stays and nights over the former Westin Premier program which merged into the SPG program.
An awful lot to ask of the guest when the benefits/earnings were for the most part the same.
I suggested the needed hook which seemed pretty obvious at the time.
A suite upgrade should be considered at the time of check in based upon availability.
My suggestion was not warmly received by any means.
The hotels would never go for it.
There would be to much demand.
It would cost the properties to much........the list went on.
Low and behold it happened 4 months later when the terms and conditions were rewritten for the second year of SPG.
And to date it became what I think to be one of the most popular aspects of the program for Starwood Platinum members.
That made it tougher once again for all the programs and brands to compete.
As a result members of other programs now seem to expect it or wish for it even if it is or was not a part of their regular published benefits. Self included !
My experience with Hilton and especially related to the upgrade process is really what I called the unpublished benefits.
Especially for Diamond members.
Being very kind in person at check in and asking the front line or in house resrvations for my actual preference of guest room goes along way.
Demand at the time factors in as well.
As the increased demand for business within hotels intesifies in many cities I think you will find more cooperation then ever before. Hotels today are now becoming more aware of what other brands/programs are offering.
I think you will see more hotels look to satisfy their guests with more unpublished benefits.
When booking on line state your desired wishes .
Corner room or suite consisderation perhaps for Diamonds .
Here and there if they are able to
I find the hotels more then happy to make for happy satisfied guests.
Keep in mind upgrade procedures are much tougher at certain very popular resort destinations where many properties have in house rules and do not allow for front line agents to decide or be able to change room categories other then what the hotel normally allows or blocks.
Other then a one class category upgrade or other rules that the hotel may normally stipulate.
And with some luck and timing even those rules can and may be broken.
Hilton still has the best Gold tier program of any of the majors.
Diamond is a fully earned tier and carries some weight with many a property.
And Gold is as most know reasonably easy to earn or obtain through special promotions.
Thanks for the topic and all the feedback here
Happy Travels and upgrades !
------------------
AA & Starwood,Marriott Platinum
Hyatt, Hilton Diamond
Swissotel Club Gold
U/A 1 K
[This message has been edited by 777 global mile hound (edited 06-29-2003).]
Jun 29, 2003, 9:24 am
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AUS DL PM MM, HH LTD
Posts: 1,853
747, thanks for the explanation! I am interested in your point that Diamonds should be more specific in their requests. As a 100 night a year guest at Crystal City Hilton, I did just that.
I am staying at New York Hilton, two rooms, 4 nights on award (320K points). What reasonable requests can I and should I make to the hotel relative to connecting rooms, upgraded rooms, suites, etc. I am not familiar with New York at all. For that many points, I want to make sure I get all I deserve but, at the same time, don't want to irritate the hotel so I get stuck in the "slums."
thanks,
marc
I am staying at New York Hilton, two rooms, 4 nights on award (320K points). What reasonable requests can I and should I make to the hotel relative to connecting rooms, upgraded rooms, suites, etc. I am not familiar with New York at all. For that many points, I want to make sure I get all I deserve but, at the same time, don't want to irritate the hotel so I get stuck in the "slums."
thanks,
marc