RocketGoBoom

That is not a fair representation of what is typically happening in these scenarios.

The rental car companies are not repairing the tiny damage marks even after they extort the payments out of the customers.
Then the rental car employees take advantage of the fact that 99% of customers don't notice such tiny blemishes on a rental car.

Many people have requested copies of repair bills and they are never produced.
Many people have seen substitute damage pictures sent, that are entirely different from the pictures they themselves took of disputed damage.

There is clearly a scam in the foreign rental car industry to try to take advantage of credit card insurance that most consumers have.
Many of those countries have very weak insurance fraud laws and lax prosecution history for such insurance fraud.

So to foreign car rental operations, it is an easy victimless crime, small enough scale that it won't get prosecuted, and it helps the profit margins dramatically in what would otherwise be a thin profit business.
At the end of the day, it is the credit card insurance businesses that is eating the bills.

91StealthES

Why is it not an accurate representation? Damage was not indicated on the form provided when leaving the rental location, but damage was present upon return. The renters lack of not noticing damage not indicated on the form before leaving the premises is not Hertz's fault and therefore the renter is liable.

Not extortion, the damage occurred at some point. The rental car companies do not need to repair the damage. Unless significant damage, they most likely wait until it is time to sell the car to repair any damage to gain top dollar upon it's sale. The existing damage is notated on the form for the next renter, and the next renter will not be liable for that damage.

I don't believe there is any ill-will from the return employees. Your statement of customers not noticing tiny blemishes speaks mostly to US renters who typically rent in the US market and can get away with some vehicle damage. European, Asia, and routine (not occasional) US renters are aware that cars are held to a higher standard in the EU, especially Germany. As stated able, if you have ever rented in Germany, the cars are almost always meticulously clean and undamaged.

I'm sure we would have heard if there were any incentives provided to employees regarding flagging damage on a vehicle.

I've seen some of these complaints on here and agree that this would be an issue. We have to remember that these are upset people that potentially have been caught trying to get away with damage. Also, if they were under a corporate contract, Hertz will deal directly with the company and not the renter. If substitute pictures were provided, this was most likely a simple mistake and not a scam.

I can't speak to anything about the laws and prosecution, but do agree that some countries do have an issue with fraudulently adding additional insurance charges to customers and lying while implying it is needed. I don't see your point on damage claim scams though. Do you really think these credit card companies that provide insurance would not see a red flag if they are constantly receiving insurance claims from any rental car company. And you don't think they have a database of claims received/processed that include plate numbers and the repair order and pictures of the damage?

European road are smaller than US roads. You have to parallel park more often in the EU. Parking spaces are smaller in the EU. Garages are extremely tight in the EU. All these things add up to more chance of a car being damaged if you are not vigilant and careful.

RocketGoBoom

I don't think you are understanding the definition of the word scam.
And your complete denial that this EVER could possibly be happening might indicate that you work for Hertz or have some other ulterior motive here in this topic.
If there is a dispute, that it the purpose of arbitration where these things can be worked out and Hertz or another company has the opportunity to prove their case.

Quite often they intentionally do NOT note the damage for the next customer and they use their knowledge to execute the rental car repair scam.

I suspect that if this is purely because of cultural differences and different practices in different countries, then that is also subject to dispute via arbitration.
The Hertz arbitration agreement states specifically that for US residents they can file for arbitration and the arbitration agreement can be broadly interpreted to cover just about everything.
So if Hertz is going to allow US residents to be scammed in Germany, then they surely have no issue with defending the practice in arbitration.
Let's face it, there is a profit motive involved for Hertz and other rental companies to just look the other way.

We have heard about it in various topics here on FlyerTalk.com. I recall person reporting a 2% incentive to find damage.
That creates a massive conflict of interest to let cars go out with damage so tiny that 99% don't notice, then make a mountain out of molehill when returning the car.

You are not an objective person on this subject.

Yep, more opportunity to execute the rental car repair insurance scam.

91StealthES

It seems that you are very objective and not interested in hearing what myself or the other forum members have to say, so we'll just leave it at that.

Inspect your car before you leave (I even do this in the US), be careful while the car is in your possession, and inspect the car upon return with video or photo proof for your records and you won't have an issue.

I do not work for Hertz. I was a heavy renter in my past role with much less now (but still enough to qualify for PC) and have rented all over the US and Europe (mostly Germany). To be honest, it sounds like you work for the American Arbitration Association as you mention them quite substantially.

Enjoy the day and have a great week!

Editing to add: Regarding your comment on the 2% finders fee and reason to let it go out with damage...I believe the return agents (at least at MUC and FRA) are not Hertz employees, so I don't see how your comment holds value.

RocketGoBoom

I am just a guy that doesn't like getting screwed over by big corporation scams.
Then getting run around by customer service because if they just ignore you long enough, most complaints just fade away with the wall of bureaucracy.

Having learned how arbitration works (JAMS and AAA function the same), I have merely realized that it is a way to get premium customer service from the legal departments of these companies.

TWA884

A similar situation happened to me at KOA years ago. Our flight was delayed a few hours, and we landed after midnight. I don't recall the car rental company - it wasn't Hertz or Avis - but they stayed open a few hours late in order to accommodate late arriving passengers with rental reservation. We signed the contract and found the car in a mostly darkened lot. It was parked back in against a hedge. I had to pull it forward to open the trunk. It never occurred to me to check under the bumper. We only had the car for a couple of days and never drove off road or scraped the underside of the car. When we returned the car, the agent immediately inspected the underside of the rear bumper and found scrapes. She never checked the underside of the front. She knew exactly what she was looking for, preexisting damage. I put up an argument and told her that under the circumstances which we picked up the car, backed up against a hedge in a dark lot, there was no reasonable way for me to inspect the underside of the car and have them document prior damage. She let it go.

For similar reasons, I won't rent from Sixt in Europe, their post rental inspection was much more thorough than when I picked up the car; fortunately, no hidden or obscure damage was "discovered." My last few European rentals - not in Germany - were with Avis. The cars, Audi A6 - an upgrade - and 3 Series BMW's, were not quite as nice or as well equipped as Sixt's, but I didn't have to worry about getting scammed.

seawolf

Thanks for starting this thread and bringing up arbitration as an tool to counter scam damage claims but I disagree with first sentence that damage claims are typically scams. I welcome any evidence to support this assertion.

As debated in the Hertz Germany damage thread, that thread is inherently data bias as a renter would more likely post about a damage claim they don’t agree with than one where they did cause damage and paid up or rental agency dropped claim after renter responded they couldn’t have caused it. You’ll also never hear about scenarios where the rental agency decided not to pursue a claim at all. A good portion of claims reported on that thread could have been simply avoided if renter did a walk around and report any damages, however insignificant, not recorded on the vehicle conditions report before driving of as this is how it works in Germany (they are less lenient than US).

Furthermore, agency is NOT required to repair damage after receiving payment for claim since claim is essentially for loss of value.

I’m not saying scams don’t happen but I think it is a stretch to say damage claims are typically scams and part of the business model without providing evidence to back that up.

Thanks again for brining arbitration as a tool available if a scam damage claim should occur.

Deltahater

while not Hertz related, it relates to small claims court flilings. Some of you may recall the RGN special fares in 2012. I sued a European airline over their decision to not honor the tickets. They hired NY and TX based lawyers and swiftly moved my claim to State Court which required me to lawyer up too. Things got heated, expensive, lengthy, but I prevailed in the end.

My point is that if you sue in SCC, you have no guarantees that it ends up there too

m907

What was the judgment, out of curiosity?

ACArbeiter

I had a similar experience in but with Avis in Iceland, 2 years ago. They were really aggressive in trying to sell insurance so I became alarmed. They did warn me ahead that the car had several dents and scratches on. So I asked that an Avis Rep come out with me to go over the car and damages but they refused. And I refused their insurance coverage. First time I ever did this, I took pictures of the whole car before I left the lot. Sure enough, I got a bill for $3500 in damages to the car. Avis HQ was supportive with me, since I kept all pictures BEFORE and AFTER I returned the car. Avis Island did not even respond the Avis HQ once they saw all the pictures I took. So lesson is, check the before you leave and it is in your best interested to take pictures of car before and after your rental.
Another good idea, if you don't have car rental insurance on your credit card, most travel agents can sell you car rental insurance too, for a lot less the car company price.

Deltahater

I can't disclose it, but I would sue again.

StevenSeagalFan

If a judgement was rendered in court isn't it public record? A settlement would be private but a judgement should be public no?

m907

I don't think he actually said there was a judgement, just that he prevailed.