The Predatory Skies
#1
Original Poster
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2006
Programs: Aloha
Posts: 45
The Predatory Skies
http://airlinesofhawaii.blogspot.com/
Peter Forman (the author of Wings of Paradise, Hawaii's Incomparable Airlines) has started his own blog. I imagine the lies and spin coming from Mesa just got too thick for Peter. There's more on his blog and on his other website... Here is his article, "The Predatory Skies"...
Peter also has a Q&A FAQ here...
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/iiairwar.htm
Peter has posted sample airfares Mesa charges on the mainland and compares them to Inter-Island airfares here...
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/mainland.htm
You will discover that the fares charged on established Mesa routes are considerably higher than the introductory fares charged here in Hawaii.
Peter Forman (the author of Wings of Paradise, Hawaii's Incomparable Airlines) has started his own blog. I imagine the lies and spin coming from Mesa just got too thick for Peter. There's more on his blog and on his other website... Here is his article, "The Predatory Skies"...
The Predatory Skies
To call an airline predatory is a bold accusation. Nonetheless, its difficult to reach any other conclusion regarding Hawaiis newest interisland airline, go!. The actions of this newcomer dont tell the whole story. One must also consider the timing of those actions.
First, lets look at go!s announcement to enter the interisland market. It came while Aloha Airlines was involved in delicate negotiations with potential investors aiming to bring the airline out of Chapter 11. This timing was, of course, more than coincidence. Go! took on the job of spoiler, the villain intent on scaring away investors and then profiting from Alohas demise. The tactic didnt work, and Alohas financial backing came through anyway. Go! chose to make good on its threat and it entered the market quickly thereafter.
Next, consider the $45 fares ($39 plus fees and taxes) which go! has brought to the interisland market. Airline analysts agree that neither go! nor its competitors can break even with such low fares. It is reasonable for a new entrant to come into a market with a low fare to capture the medias attention and build a customer base. At some point, however, the airline needs to move on and make a profit. Go!s insistence that these low fares remain is an indication that a prolonged period of losses will plague Hawaiis interisland carriers.
Go!s announced plans to acquire 8-12 large (90 seats or more) jets for the Hawaii market is noteworthy for a couple reasons. First, the startup airline has only been in business for a month and a half during the busiest tourist season, giving it no real opportunity to properly assess the potential for profitability. Second, go!s announcement came just a few days after Israels invasion of Lebanon. Why in the world would an airline announce a major investment in aircraft immediately after news that unsettles financial markets and drives oil to new highs? The answer can only be that the purpose of the announcement was to undermine one or more of its competitors.
Keep in mind that Hawaiis interisland market has been shrinking for years now. The reasons are obvious. Airlines have increased direct flights to neighbor islands and thereby eliminated many connection flights. Medical and shopping facilities on neighbor islands now eliminate many needed trips to Honolulu. As for Oahu residents taking vacations on other islands, island hotel room rates exceeding $200 a night put the kibosh on many such plans, even if air fares are reasonable. With low airfares to the mainland, a week in Las Vegas is noticeably less expensive than a week on Maui. Why then is go! planning to add an enormous number of seats to the interisland market? Such a plan only makes sense if at least one of its competitors is eliminated, and go! appears hell-bent on making this happen. Stay tuned.
To call an airline predatory is a bold accusation. Nonetheless, its difficult to reach any other conclusion regarding Hawaiis newest interisland airline, go!. The actions of this newcomer dont tell the whole story. One must also consider the timing of those actions.
First, lets look at go!s announcement to enter the interisland market. It came while Aloha Airlines was involved in delicate negotiations with potential investors aiming to bring the airline out of Chapter 11. This timing was, of course, more than coincidence. Go! took on the job of spoiler, the villain intent on scaring away investors and then profiting from Alohas demise. The tactic didnt work, and Alohas financial backing came through anyway. Go! chose to make good on its threat and it entered the market quickly thereafter.
Next, consider the $45 fares ($39 plus fees and taxes) which go! has brought to the interisland market. Airline analysts agree that neither go! nor its competitors can break even with such low fares. It is reasonable for a new entrant to come into a market with a low fare to capture the medias attention and build a customer base. At some point, however, the airline needs to move on and make a profit. Go!s insistence that these low fares remain is an indication that a prolonged period of losses will plague Hawaiis interisland carriers.
Go!s announced plans to acquire 8-12 large (90 seats or more) jets for the Hawaii market is noteworthy for a couple reasons. First, the startup airline has only been in business for a month and a half during the busiest tourist season, giving it no real opportunity to properly assess the potential for profitability. Second, go!s announcement came just a few days after Israels invasion of Lebanon. Why in the world would an airline announce a major investment in aircraft immediately after news that unsettles financial markets and drives oil to new highs? The answer can only be that the purpose of the announcement was to undermine one or more of its competitors.
Keep in mind that Hawaiis interisland market has been shrinking for years now. The reasons are obvious. Airlines have increased direct flights to neighbor islands and thereby eliminated many connection flights. Medical and shopping facilities on neighbor islands now eliminate many needed trips to Honolulu. As for Oahu residents taking vacations on other islands, island hotel room rates exceeding $200 a night put the kibosh on many such plans, even if air fares are reasonable. With low airfares to the mainland, a week in Las Vegas is noticeably less expensive than a week on Maui. Why then is go! planning to add an enormous number of seats to the interisland market? Such a plan only makes sense if at least one of its competitors is eliminated, and go! appears hell-bent on making this happen. Stay tuned.
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/iiairwar.htm
Peter has posted sample airfares Mesa charges on the mainland and compares them to Inter-Island airfares here...
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/mainland.htm
You will discover that the fares charged on established Mesa routes are considerably higher than the introductory fares charged here in Hawaii.
#3
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Suburbia :rolleyes:
Programs: UA, HA, CO
Posts: 975
Originally Posted by aloha787
Peter also has a Q&A FAQ here...
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/iiairwar.htm
Peter has posted sample airfares Mesa charges on the mainland and compares them to Inter-Island airfares here...
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/mainland.htm
You will discover that the fares charged on established Mesa routes are considerably higher than the introductory fares charged here in Hawaii.

http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/iiairwar.htm
Peter has posted sample airfares Mesa charges on the mainland and compares them to Inter-Island airfares here...
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/mainland.htm
You will discover that the fares charged on established Mesa routes are considerably higher than the introductory fares charged here in Hawaii.

..........not that this really matters to me
#4
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lahaina, Hawai'i
Programs: HA Pua. Platinum WP, PR, QF, UA, AA, DL, NW Prince Preferred
Posts: 4,786
Mahalo Air thought that having FAs pop out of the overhead bins would attract business. go! is using a different tactic. As a HA ff, I need FREE tickets to get me not to ride HA, but I can't speak for the non-affiliated flying public.
#5
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: its FREEZING!!! even in summer!
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Posts: 142
Someone needs to tell him that Mesa doesn't set the fares for Tucson and Flagstaff -- America West does.
Last edited by BrokesiliaFlyer; Jul 20, 2006 at 3:37 pm
#6
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Suburbia :rolleyes:
Programs: UA, HA, CO
Posts: 975
Originally Posted by BrokesiliaFlyer
Someone needs to tell him that Mesa doesn't set the fares for Tucson and Flagstaff -- America West does.
**Note: There is no proof behind what I have just written in this post.
**
#8




Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,174
Originally Posted by aloha787
Peter has posted sample airfares Mesa charges on the mainland and compares them to Inter-Island airfares here...
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/mainland.htm
You will discover that the fares charged on established Mesa routes are considerably higher than the introductory fares charged here in Hawaii.
http://www.airlinesofhawaii.com/mainland.htm
You will discover that the fares charged on established Mesa routes are considerably higher than the introductory fares charged here in Hawaii.
The Mesa Airlines independent flights are EAS routes operated with 19-seat Beech 1900 aircraft.
#9
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: its FREEZING!!! even in summer!
Programs: OnePass, GoldPoints Elite, ErrorPlan, Star Gold, United Premier Exec, Starwood Gold
Posts: 142
He uses ABQ-ROW as a comparison market -- $146 is the lowest one way, but the roundtrip fare is $138.
that's not too bad for a route with NO competition.
The $146 is also one of the highest fares you'll pay.
Lets look at Hawaiian & go!'s highest fares.
HNL/KOA
Hawaiian - $171.50 for a Y29 Fare
go! - $79.00 for a YGO fare
Anyone else find that a bit absurd?
that's not too bad for a route with NO competition.
The $146 is also one of the highest fares you'll pay.
Lets look at Hawaiian & go!'s highest fares.
HNL/KOA
Hawaiian - $171.50 for a Y29 Fare
go! - $79.00 for a YGO fare
Anyone else find that a bit absurd?
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Posts: 10,614
A legitimate comparison would involve short, heavily travelled routes with no viable alternative transportation AND multiple competitive airlines. Offhand, I can't think of any!
#12
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 52
why does it matter.
You know, what strikes me as odd is that so many people are against GO! entering the market because they aren't a Hawaii airline.
Yet Hawaii welcomed K-Mart, WALMART, Chili's and Other "outside" businesses with record profit numbers and consistent rankings as "most profitable" of each kind in the Nation.
It seems like people are just nitpicking because they dont have anything better to do.
This article about the market is quite true. Hawaii is diversifying on the neighbor islands much more than in the past. Medical services are indeed better than in the past. Its a very astute observation.
But why does it matter?
I would rather see three airlines bust each others faces in and all of them fall into the ocean leaving us with no options than to have one or two choices that go unchallenged.
When that happens, we get the Akaka's, Inouye's, Lingles of the world.
People think they are gods, but they just dont know any different.
Same logic applies here. I would rather see choices, even if weakens the positions. I want to make a choice, and let natural selection take its course.
Yet Hawaii welcomed K-Mart, WALMART, Chili's and Other "outside" businesses with record profit numbers and consistent rankings as "most profitable" of each kind in the Nation.
It seems like people are just nitpicking because they dont have anything better to do.
This article about the market is quite true. Hawaii is diversifying on the neighbor islands much more than in the past. Medical services are indeed better than in the past. Its a very astute observation.
But why does it matter?
I would rather see three airlines bust each others faces in and all of them fall into the ocean leaving us with no options than to have one or two choices that go unchallenged.
When that happens, we get the Akaka's, Inouye's, Lingles of the world.
People think they are gods, but they just dont know any different.
Same logic applies here. I would rather see choices, even if weakens the positions. I want to make a choice, and let natural selection take its course.
#13
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lahaina, Hawai'i
Programs: HA Pua. Platinum WP, PR, QF, UA, AA, DL, NW Prince Preferred
Posts: 4,786
No busting faces, no falling into the sea, we need our airlines, brah. Rough the water for i.i. travel, yeah? So to answer your question, if YV's attitude is perceived as "We're gonna make it in Hawaii or put AQ & HA out of business trying.", well then, does that answer your question?
Last edited by kaukau; Jul 24, 2006 at 7:45 am
#14
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Originally Posted by JW74
You know, what strikes me as odd is that so many people are against GO! entering the market because they aren't a Hawaii airline.
Yet Hawaii welcomed K-Mart, WALMART, Chili's and Other "outside" businesses with record profit numbers and consistent rankings as "most profitable" of each kind in the Nation.
Yet Hawaii welcomed K-Mart, WALMART, Chili's and Other "outside" businesses with record profit numbers and consistent rankings as "most profitable" of each kind in the Nation.
Hawaii has the highest cost of living in the nation. There are several reasons for this, but one major reason is inefficient businesses that are protected from competition. One of the "nature of Hawaii" traits that is continued by this model is that many people have to work two jobs, in many cases husband and wife have 4 jobs between them, and the kids hardly ever see their parents. Small wonder that they are willing to shop at WalMart or Costco and buy the same stuff at half the price. The same thing will happen with go!
The idea that all airlines will fail, and the islands will be left with no interisland flights, is a red herring. Any airline would be delighted to move into a situation where they had proven high demand and no competition at all. Further, this idea presumes that they would all fail on the same day, which is preposterous. The last airline flying would be able to raise fares to anything they wanted them to be. If the last two airlines flying were HA and AQ, they would be able to raise the fares to anything they wanted them to be, as they seem to be pretty good at determining what the other one will charge.

