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Old Jun 6, 2009 | 7:29 pm
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Gebrauchtwagen in Germany

So I'm looking at some of the ads for used cars in Germany, and mind you, I can navigate a little bit of the language, but I see in many of the ads a reference to Euro-3 and Euro-4. I've no idea what this is in reference to.

Any ideas?
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Old Jun 6, 2009 | 7:51 pm
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It refers to the vehicle's emission standards class

Go to Wikipedia and look up EUROPEAN EMISSION STANDARDS and you should find an article or two that explains the codes to you, and what the actual standards mean in terms of pollutants.
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Old Jun 7, 2009 | 6:52 am
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Originally Posted by travis bickle
Go to Wikipedia and look up EUROPEAN EMISSION STANDARDS and you should find an article or two that explains the codes to you, and what the actual standards mean in terms of pollutants.
Thanks. I didn't think of the emissions codes.

Another question for anyone:

At German car dealers, is the price on the window the final price, or is it expected to haggle the price down? What other fees are associated with buying the car but would not be listed on the sticker price?

And, for newer cars, does the requirement still exist for a G-KAT sticker to drive in certain areas, or are most of the newer cars automatically good?
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Old Jun 7, 2009 | 8:04 am
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The emission standards (Euro 1/2/etc.) basically determine the taxes that you'll have to pay and if you'll get a "Umweltzonen-Plakette".

The "G-KAT" sticker is no longer of importance, but the "Umweltzonen-Plakette" becomes more and more important as many cities are establishing the "Umweltzonen" which you are only allowed to enter with the mentioned sticker.

Regarding the price: The price on the window can ALWAYS be negotiated, be creative*; and in Germany: "Bargeld lacht".

The prices negotiated in the end is the final price, no further taxes or fees. Next point where you'll have to pay is the insurance and the taxes.

What type/manufacturer are you looking at?

*=you're not on a bazar, but starting with a low offer (e.g. minus 30%) will give you a good basis, the used car dealers are currently under pressure because of the "Abwrackprmie" that supports mainly the sale of brand new, small cars (such as the VW Polo or Golf).

Last edited by DTS; Jun 7, 2009 at 8:10 am
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Old Jun 7, 2009 | 8:15 am
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Originally Posted by etch5895
At German car dealers, is the price on the window the final price, or is it expected to haggle the price down?
It's always expected that the buyer haggles the car down - regardless if it's a new or second-hand car, if you buy at a car dealer or a friend or ...
During final price negotiations for a second-hand car, you could also consider to e.g. get a full car tank.

As the poster above already mentioned, buy by cash is a strong argument during negotiations.
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Old Jun 7, 2009 | 8:52 am
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Ideally, I'm looking for a Peugeot 206 Turbo, diesel motor is fine, maybe a few years old. I would almost certainly be paying cash. Probably would be looking in/around the Nuremberg area.

I would be willing to look at similar cars, but this particular model stuck out because I had one as a rental and really enjoyed it, from the performance to the handling.
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Old Jun 7, 2009 | 9:45 am
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Peugeot wouldn't be my first choice but some of my friends drive them, and the seem to be happy. Main advantage of the Peugeot HDI FAP Diesel engines is the fact that they got the unburned carbon filters (Rupartikelfilter), which will probably one of the factors determining the automotive tax in the future.

I guess I'd start with a authorized Peugeot dealer, they usually have large numbers of traded in cars, I'm sure you'll find several dealers in and around Nrnberg.
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Old Jun 8, 2009 | 7:49 am
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Originally Posted by etch5895
Ideally, I'm looking for a Peugeot 206 Turbo, diesel motor is fine, maybe a few years old. I would almost certainly be paying cash. Probably would be looking in/around the Nuremberg area.
used Peugeot 206s have their fair share of problems, but the upside is that a new Peugeot 206 Diesel was/is about EUR 12K to 15K - which means that used specimen of a certain age (3 years or thereabouts), that would normally retail for about 6K to 7K with acceptable mileage and in good condition now fall squarely into a price range where, if you qualify for the "scrappage scheme" bonus, you can get a new car (made in Korea or Romania, but that is another story). Result: the used cars cannot be shifted, and are offered at (sometimes spectacular) discounts.

Re models, by all means get the diesel. These engines last forever, one of my current ones is on 220,000 km, and a friend is on 380,000 km on his 1991 205. I'd start at a Peugeot dealership, too - and if they offer extra warranty above and beyond the 6 months statutory, take it, because while the engines will last forever or thereabouts, most other parts won't (extra care should be placed on the turbo hoses - if these leak or break or slip, airflow from the turbocharger to the engine will stop and the car will stall). And have the car thoroughly checked by a qualified person other than the vendor before you sign on the dotted line. And join ADAC on a "plus" membership. And keep your mobile charged (so you can call roadside assistance). Because, whatever you do, the car - while a treat to drive - will break down eventually. Trust me, I've driven not one but several Peugeots...
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Old Jun 8, 2009 | 6:17 pm
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Originally Posted by tom tulpe
used Peugeot 206s have their fair share of problems, but the upside is that a new Peugeot 206 Diesel was/is about EUR 12K to 15K - which means that used specimen of a certain age (3 years or thereabouts), that would normally retail for about 6K to 7K with acceptable mileage and in good condition now fall squarely into a price range where, if you qualify for the "scrappage scheme" bonus, you can get a new car (made in Korea or Romania, but that is another story). Result: the used cars cannot be shifted, and are offered at (sometimes spectacular) discounts.

Re models, by all means get the diesel. These engines last forever, one of my current ones is on 220,000 km, and a friend is on 380,000 km on his 1991 205. I'd start at a Peugeot dealership, too - and if they offer extra warranty above and beyond the 6 months statutory, take it, because while the engines will last forever or thereabouts, most other parts won't (extra care should be placed on the turbo hoses - if these leak or break or slip, airflow from the turbocharger to the engine will stop and the car will stall). And have the car thoroughly checked by a qualified person other than the vendor before you sign on the dotted line. And join ADAC on a "plus" membership. And keep your mobile charged (so you can call roadside assistance). Because, whatever you do, the car - while a treat to drive - will break down eventually. Trust me, I've driven not one but several Peugeots...
The Peugeot is not a done deal, but in my mind it is the leading contender. I would also consider the smaller Peugeot (the 107?), the small Citroen, and I'm really not too familiar with the offering of the German manufacturers or Skoda for that matter. I'm looking for cheap, zippy, small for parking ease and reliable. The Smart is a little too small, although I would consider one. I prefer used because I don't want to buy a new car. ADAC membership is a given.
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Old Jun 9, 2009 | 4:21 am
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Well, a VW Polo or Golf comes to mind. IMHO the best compact on the German market in the last ten years was the VW Golf IV.

Depending on the warranty that the seller offers you might not need ADAC membership.
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