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-   -   obtaining german citizenship (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/germany/882396-obtaining-german-citizenship.html)

totti Jul 16, 2009 2:06 pm


Originally Posted by Lazaaby (Post 12066185)
My wife was born in Germany to a German mother (unknown who father is). When she was young she moved to US but did not get German citizenship until her 20's. I believe at that time she had to renounce her German Citizenship. Is there any way she can get a German passport without renouncing her US citizenship?

Welcome to Flyertalk btw!

Flying Lawyer Jul 18, 2009 4:30 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12072416)
I am curious what would be the constitutional court (or EU human rights) ruling for a post-2000 foreign-born child of German parent(s) when the child's German parent(s) failed to register the birth within the specified time frame due to death of the German parent(s). Denying the citizenship claim rights of a child due to parental inability, incapacitation or negligence seems like punishing the child for circumstances beyond the child's control.

EU human rights are certainly not involved if it comes to national citizenship. And deadlines are deadlines, this is pretty much the ruling of the German constitutional court.

acysb87 Jul 19, 2009 5:37 pm


Originally Posted by mangoMan (Post 10609358)
The interesting thing about this is that only one parent needs to be German. I was born in the US to German parents (both), however I never bothered getting a German passport until I was an adult. Shortly after I finally did get a passport (2003-4 timeframe), it was also possible for my children to get German passports because I had a German passport, even though my wife is not German. Theoretically it seems my kids can now get German passports for their kids, ad infinitum. This seems like a loophole of sorts.

I was born to German parents who reside/resided in Canada.I applied for my german passport at German consulate in Toronto and received passport in approx.3 weeks.Both my kids,age 28 and 25 s/b able to apply for a German passport.
Both parents became Canadian citizens after i was born.My two youngest brothers will not be able to get their German passport as both parents were Canadian citizens at that time.

Interesting read:cool:

soitgoes Jul 19, 2009 8:49 pm


Originally Posted by mangoMan (Post 10609358)
The interesting thing about this is that only one parent needs to be German. I was born in the US to German parents (both), however I never bothered getting a German passport until I was an adult. Shortly after I finally did get a passport (2003-4 timeframe), it was also possible for my children to get German passports because I had a German passport, even though my wife is not German. Theoretically it seems my kids can now get German passports for their kids, ad infinitum. This seems like a loophole of sorts.

It's not a loophole...it's the way it is supposed to work. Citizens of a country should be able to pass their citizenship on to their children. Now, in the past in Germany and elsewhere, only the father could do so. That has changed.

On a side note, the US does have some complicated rules about passing on citizenship from a parent not born in the US to a child not born in the US--there are some US residency requirements that have to be met.

GUWonder Jul 20, 2009 1:44 pm


Originally Posted by Flying Lawyer (Post 12084946)
EU human rights are certainly not involved if it comes to national citizenship. And deadlines are deadlines, this is pretty much the ruling of the German constitutional court.

Human rights are certainly involved when it comes to fundamental things like national citizenship; and the denial of citizenship rights is a fundamental matter of human rights under many circumstances including that which I mentioned.

Deadlines are deadlines but that doesn't change the fact that denying children a claim to citizenship because of parental incompetence, negligence, disability or death is the equivalent of punishing the children for the acts and omissions of the parents.

GUWonder Jul 20, 2009 2:00 pm


Originally Posted by soitgoes (Post 12091082)
It's not a loophole...it's the way it is supposed to work. Citizens of a country should be able to pass their citizenship on to their children. Now, in the past in Germany and elsewhere, only the father could do so. That has changed.

On a side note, the US does have some complicated rules about passing on citizenship from a parent not born in the US to a child not born in the US--there are some US residency requirements that have to be met.

For the US, there is still gender discrimination and marital status-related discrimination involved in the picture too.

oliver2002 Jul 20, 2009 2:36 pm


Originally Posted by tfar (Post 12068499)
I wonder if one could have a triple citizenship. Say Swiss, German and US. That would be the tri-fecta.


Originally Posted by MariaSF (Post 12071393)
I have a friend who actually has triple citizenship. She was born in the US, to a German father and a Mexican mother. She was able to keep all 3 citizenships/passports.

My son has the German (thru me), Swedish (his mother) and the US (born here) Citizenship. Still has the option of getting the Finnish one (mother and grandparents were Finnish by birth and only changed later) and Indian one (I was Indian at birth till 1976 :) as is his Grandfather), but we decided to let that one go. The poor kid will be confused with three already :)

flyingfkb Jul 20, 2009 2:50 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12094742)
Human rights are certainly involved when it comes to fundamental things like national citizenship; and the denial of citizenship rights is a fundamental matter of human rights under many circumstances including that which I mentioned.

Only if you end up state-less. Otherwise no.

GUWonder Jul 20, 2009 4:19 pm


Originally Posted by caspritz78 (Post 12095133)
Only if you end up state-less. Otherwise no.

No, it's that too but also other than just that. Even if a person doesn't end up stateless, other fundamental rights derived from citizenship status -- including that tied to economic status/participation -- can be compromised by denial of citizenship.

GUWonder Jul 20, 2009 4:28 pm


Originally Posted by oliver2002 (Post 12095060)
My son has the German (thru me), Swedish (his mother) and the US (born here) Citizenship. Still has the option of getting the Finnish one (mother and grandparents were Finnish by birth and only changed later) and Indian one (I was Indian at birth till 1976 :) as is his Grandfather), but we decided to let that one go. The poor kid will be confused with three already :)

India -- much like some other former British colonies in Asia and Africa -- has a constitutional ban against Indian citizens holding Indian citizenship and another country's citizenship at the same time. Short of surrendering all those foreign nationalities, submitting a false application or a change in their constitution, getting Indian citizenship and retaining it is not possible.

Aviatrix Jul 20, 2009 4:35 pm


Originally Posted by soitgoes (Post 12091082)
It's not a loophole...it's the way it is supposed to work. Citizens of a country should be able to pass their citizenship on to their children. Now, in the past in Germany and elsewhere, only the father could do so. That has changed..

It's not how it works in the UK... British citizenship can only be passed on to one generation. Someone born abroad to British-born parents is British. ("British by descent"). Someone born abroad to parents classed as "British by descent" is not entitled to British citizenship - but anyone with at least one British-born grandparent can live and work in the UK fairly easily by applying for an ancestral visa.

GUWonder Jul 20, 2009 4:54 pm


Originally Posted by Aviatrix (Post 12095645)
It's not how it works in the UK... British citizenship can only be passed on to one generation. Someone born abroad to British-born parents is British. ("British by descent"). Someone born abroad to parents classed as "British by descent" is not entitled to British citizenship - but anyone with at least one British-born grandparent can live and work in the UK fairly easily by applying for an ancestral visa.

Yes, but as you may have already noticed there is that distinction between positive and normative statements as illustrated in this context when soitgoes used the word should for a reason. soitgoes supplied a normative statement, a declaration of what is ideal rather than what is necessarily the practice everywhere.

A lot of citizenship laws and practices ought to be revised, if not by the legislatures, then by the courts. That's my normative statement.

alex0683de Jul 20, 2009 5:11 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12095610)
India -- much like some other former British colonies in Asia and Africa -- has a constitutional ban against Indian citizens holding Indian citizenship and another country's citizenship at the same time. Short of surrendering all those foreign nationalities, submitting a false application or a change in their constitution, getting Indian citizenship and retaining it is not possible.

In India's case, there is the Person of Indian Origin Card which gives the holder many of the benefits a passport would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-res..._Indian_Origin

GUWonder Jul 20, 2009 5:41 pm


Originally Posted by alex0683de (Post 12095800)
In India's case, there is the Person of Indian Origin Card which gives the holder many of the benefits a passport would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-res..._Indian_Origin

PIO and OCI status: 1) do not provide Indian citizenship; and 2) do not include the most important political rights (and even some economic rights) to which Indian citizens are entitled; and 3) do not have any use if a PIO or OCI seeker does not have and/or fails to provide a foreign (read: non-Indian) passport.

PIO and OCI are also more often than not useless when it comes to the primary benefit of a passport: ability to use that document to acquire permission to enter and enter a country other than the one that issued the passport.

soitgoes Jul 20, 2009 6:08 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 12095730)
Yes, but as you may have already noticed there is that distinction between positive and normative statements as illustrated in this context when soitgoes used the word should for a reason. soitgoes supplied a normative statement, a declaration of what is ideal rather than what is necessarily the practice everywhere.

That's precisely what I meant with 'should'.

I was replying to the 'loophole' comment. A loophole is something that gets around the intention of the law, and I don't think a parent's ability to pass his/her citizenship to his/her offspring is a loophole. It just is (in this case it is, and in other cases, it should be, IMO).


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