obtaining german citizenship
 

Hi there

My father was born in Germany back in 1946, after the war in a refugee camp. My grandfather was german and they remained there until 1949 I believe then migrated over to the US.

My father and grandfather both being born there, does that give me right to apply for dual nationality??
I know longer speak with my father, and have a feeling I would have to get his naturalisation papers?

You can get German citizenship based on your grandfather's status. Its a bit trickey, but usually the local consulate will help. Read the infopages of the Chicago consulate and you will know more: http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/u...tizenship.html

Thanks

Would it matter if my father is now an American Citizen ( naturalised)

Might depend on when he took out U.S. citizenship. I think you're pretty much SOL if he was naturalised before your birth.

In fact, the FAQ section of the Ottawa embassy's webpage confirms this:

See: http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo...Vorfahren.html

he did, but maintaned dual nationality.

That's not allowed in most cases.

See: http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo...2-Verlust.html

The dual citizenship for German citizens taking on for example the US citizenship is I think a pretty new thing. Probably only a couple of years old, but I might be wrong.

Anyway you have to apply for dual citizenship and get the okay of the German authorities BEFORE you take on your new second citizenship. If you don't do this you will automatically loose your German citizenship and the German state is not very tolerant with people who try to get around the rule.

There were example of Turkish citizens taking in the German citizenship and giving up there Turkish citizenship but the reapplied for a Turkish passport. When the German authorities found out about it they immediately canceled the German citizenship.

It is possible since 2000, but only if you apply prior to accepting the new citizenship.

I actually just completed this process last week with the German consulate in NY. It took about a year from application to getting a passport, but it went smoothly. Was your father Jewish? If so, then you are allowed to keep you american citizenship under a special program for anyone who's citizenship was stripped by the Nazis. You should contact your local consulate; they are very helpful. Mainly, they needed paperwork from the US; they can find all the german documentation in their meticulous archives.

The german passport is much cooler than our humble american ones! ;)

I work with someone who gained dual citizenship quite naturally. He was born in the US of German parents who were working there for a couple of years. The parents applied for and received the German passport for him. Years later, after they had returned to Germany, he wanted to go to school in the US, and realized that all he needed was his birth certificate. Since he was born in the US, he was automatically entitled to a US Passport. Walked into the embassy, and walked out with a passport a couple hours later.

OK, so he has a US passport now. The question is, will he get to keep the German one?

If he applied for the US passport before 2000 he won't. If he applied for it after 2000, but without asking for permission from the German government, again - he won't. Unless, of course, he hides his US citizenship from the Germans - I know people who got away with this (and I also know someone who got away with it for many years but lost her German citizenship when they eventually found out)

I miss the good old days when the ethnic German "resettlers" (Aussiedler) who settled in Eastern Europe in the 18th century could easily get citizenship.

That's a a different story. He got the US citizenship naturally because he was born in the US. Since his parents are German he is also German. So both citizenships laws apply. The US one that grants everyone who is born in the US the US citizenship and the German law that gives you are German citizenship when your parents are German independent of where you are born.

Are you sure abou? this. As I said above I don't think that people who were born in the US to German parents fall under this rule.

You're forgetting applying for a passport is not equal to applying for nationality or citizenship (since the concept seems a bit foreign to those who live in the U.K. who think you have to have a passport to prove your citizenship). BDL-FRA's U.S.-born German national friend just applied for a U.S. passport, not U.S. citizenship which he was entitled to due to birth. He would have lost German citizenship if he obtained U.S. (or most other) citizenship other than through birth (geographically or through descent).

The interesting thing about this is that only one parent needs to be German. I was born in the US to German parents (both), however I never bothered getting a German passport until I was an adult. Shortly after I finally did get a passport (2003-4 timeframe), it was also possible for my children to get German passports because I had a German passport, even though my wife is not German. Theoretically it seems my kids can now get German passports for their kids, ad infinitum. This seems like a loophole of sorts.

It is my recollection that Germans born with dual nationality have to choose one or the other when they come of age... is that no longer the case?

And please don't make assumptions about me based on where I happen to be based at the moment...

I am pretty sure what you're thinking of is aimed at those people born in Germany of foreign parents (dare I say the law's aimed specifically at Turks) who obtain a citizenship of another country (their parents') through birth. They have to make a choice when they become of age whether to remain German or that of their parents.

See: http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo...srecht.html#t2

and see this: http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo...GeburtInD.html

If German citizenship law is anything like Austrian citizenship law for children of Austrian parents (which I believe it is), the children born abroad can keep citizenship of the country they were born in as well as citizenship of Austria (or Germany) and pass it on to their children. The big difference in the revised German law of 2000 is that foreign-born children born in/after 2000 and subsequent descendants of Germans who were themselves born abroad cannot have or pass on citizenship unless their parents register them as German citizens within a year of birth. This would basically eliminate those trying to claim citizenship when their parents have made no effort to remain German.

The Germans seem to have adopted something similar to the U.K. citizenship laws of the early '80s but with the provision of registering German citizenship if it mattered enough to them.

At any rate this is what the German Federal Foreign Ministry has to say about Germans born abroad who hold another citizenship:

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo...oerigkeit.html

Unfortunately not. Your children, broadly speaking, if born before 2000, can pass it on to their children, but if born after 2000, they are not eligible unless you register them with the German consulate within a year of their birth.

See: http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo...srecht.html#t3

Just hope your children were born before 2000 or if not, are less than a year old or you have already registered them with your local German consul.

YVR Cockroach explained the whole German citizenship rules it pretty well.

Two things to add besides the January 1st of 2000 rule.

First:
If only your mother is German you get the German citizenship. If only your father is German the authorities can demand a DNA test to prove the fatherhood.

Second:
Dual citizenship were both citizenships are of Member states of the European Union are legal and don't require any approval under German law any longer.

He's actually had both passports for quite some time (before 2000) and has never done anything to hide his status from the German gov. In his case, he already had both citizenships (as pointed out by caspritz78), he simply obtained the documentation therefore when he got the passport.

My case is the opposite: I was born in Germany, but my family emigrated to the US. In the US I was naturalized and obtained my US citizenship. When I did this, I gave up my German citzenship. If I were to re-apply for German citzenship now, which I could probably do, I would lose my US citzenship.

I don't know how the US laws about dual-citizenship are but the German authorities would only give you the German citizenship if you voluntarily gave up you US citizenship.

Nope. They are born after 2000 and I never registered them before they turned one, so I guess my grandkids won't get the 'free' German citizenship as my kids did. Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense that they wouldn't leave a 'loophole' as I described in my previous post.

I just stumbled upon this thread. The details about children born after 2000 are very interesting, as is the rest of the thread.

Regarding the original post, if your ancestors lost their German citizenship through no fault of their own during the Nazi era, then you can quite likely file to reclaim it even if some of them regained it after the war. If, however, they voluntarily gave up their German citizenship to take on another citizenship such claims will be likely not be successful.

Obtaining German Citizenship
 

My wife was born in Germany to a German mother (unknown who father is). When she was young she moved to US but did not get German citizenship until her 20's. I believe at that time she had to renounce her German Citizenship. Is there any way she can get a German passport without renouncing her US citizenship?

There have been a variety of changes over the past few decades, so different rules may apply depending on date of birth. you should contact a German consulate or embassy. There is some citizenship info at http://www.germany.info

Very interesting thread. I learned a lot. Thanks!

To the OP, from what I have read here, it would sound like you would have good chances at getting the German citizenship but bad chances at keeping any other than a European or Swiss citizenship at the same time for dual nationality. It seems there might be a loophole if you are Jewish.

I think the new laws, as of 2000, are actually less strict and I like them better.

I wonder if one could have a triple citizenship. Say Swiss, German and US. That would be the tri-fecta.

Till

I should perhaps just mention that the "loopholes" that some people have referred to don't just apply to Jewish people. They apply to anybody who is classed as a victim of the Nazi regime including members of other persecuted ethnic groups and those persecuted because of religious or political beliefs.

I have a friend who actually has triple citizenship. She was born in the US, to a German father and a Mexican mother. She was able to keep all 3 citizenships/passports.

I am curious what would be the constitutional court (or EU human rights) ruling for a post-2000 foreign-born child of German parent(s) when the child's German parent(s) failed to register the birth within the specified time frame due to death of the German parent(s). Denying the citizenship claim rights of a child due to parental inability, incapacitation or negligence seems like punishing the child for circumstances beyond the child's control.

Passing on citizenship of more than two countries to children and then grandchildren is something that often requires some deliberate planning.

Welcome to Flyertalk btw!

EU human rights are certainly not involved if it comes to national citizenship. And deadlines are deadlines, this is pretty much the ruling of the German constitutional court.

I was born to German parents who reside/resided in Canada.I applied for my german passport at German consulate in Toronto and received passport in approx.3 weeks.Both my kids,age 28 and 25 s/b able to apply for a German passport.
Both parents became Canadian citizens after i was born.My two youngest brothers will not be able to get their German passport as both parents were Canadian citizens at that time.

Interesting read:cool:

It's not a loophole...it's the way it is supposed to work. Citizens of a country should be able to pass their citizenship on to their children. Now, in the past in Germany and elsewhere, only the father could do so. That has changed.

On a side note, the US does have some complicated rules about passing on citizenship from a parent not born in the US to a child not born in the US--there are some US residency requirements that have to be met.

Human rights are certainly involved when it comes to fundamental things like national citizenship; and the denial of citizenship rights is a fundamental matter of human rights under many circumstances including that which I mentioned.

Deadlines are deadlines but that doesn't change the fact that denying children a claim to citizenship because of parental incompetence, negligence, disability or death is the equivalent of punishing the children for the acts and omissions of the parents.

For the US, there is still gender discrimination and marital status-related discrimination involved in the picture too.

My son has the German (thru me), Swedish (his mother) and the US (born here) Citizenship. Still has the option of getting the Finnish one (mother and grandparents were Finnish by birth and only changed later) and Indian one (I was Indian at birth till 1976 :) as is his Grandfather), but we decided to let that one go. The poor kid will be confused with three already :)

Only if you end up state-less. Otherwise no.

No, it's that too but also other than just that. Even if a person doesn't end up stateless, other fundamental rights derived from citizenship status -- including that tied to economic status/participation -- can be compromised by denial of citizenship.

India -- much like some other former British colonies in Asia and Africa -- has a constitutional ban against Indian citizens holding Indian citizenship and another country's citizenship at the same time. Short of surrendering all those foreign nationalities, submitting a false application or a change in their constitution, getting Indian citizenship and retaining it is not possible.