Driving safely / the German Autobahn
 

Title says it all.

Last time drove a car on the autobahn was summer of 96' so it had been a decade. This time I spent only about 24hours (total 2000km+) on the road but have not encountered any major problem, especially traffic accidents.

Wonder... The German Autobahn has become safer? Or am I missing something?

Come to think of it... In fact, there is neither broken guardrails nor black tyre marks. The road surface doesn't show its age and the μ appears pretty high. Believe it or not, at least I've had no problem with doing 230km/h+ on a wet surface(special thanks to Michelin).

As for local driver's behavior, everyone seems to have fun with accelerating to at 210km/h+@ rather than crusing at 220~260Km/h+. (For the record: I'm used to seeing in the past is the latter). So, exceeding 220Km/h have been rare. The only time I got smoked is, a silver AUDI RS-4 driven by a man(mid 50's) comes up from my behind and no sooner he floors the gas pedal than figured out that I am playing with the governor. Although he is gone without saying 'See Ya, it's good to know that 'they' still exist. Maybe I'm feeing a bit nostalgic.

An interesting thing is that Dollar shuttle bus hit 180Km/h on the motorway. We were not in a hurry though, seems that this is one of their courtesy services.



:Edit to add (Here's 2 unsolved mysteries. Any information would be appreciated)

-As I'm heading East on A4, all of a sudden everyone started to slow down at around Rothschönberg. IIRC, it was a slightly inclined area. At first, thought it is just a traffic jam. I however had no guts to ignore it so synchronized my speed with the other's to see what happens. I saw a police officer wearing a yellow jacket wandering the roadside but not sure he's been doing a job or looking for an Euro coin. Anyway.. What was that, actually?

-As I'm about to approach an intersection, all of a sudden a taxi in front of me hit the brake and pulled over to drop off the passenger. A train is running the next lane so I'm forced to stop my car in the intersection. 3-5 seconds later, the taxi started to move and I followed it. So what? Well... the very next moment, a traffic camera on the roadside gave us a yellow flash, respectively. Looks like I got caught on the camera(yellow light running?). My mistake!

1. Gas prices are high and many people drive a little slower.
2. If you "got blitzed" running a yellow/red light, you'll get a ticket ... even if you give them your "taxi story".... and even if they have both, you and the taxi on the photo. Sorry about this.

achtung!
 

-As I'm about to approach an intersection, all of a sudden a taxi in front of me hit the brake and pulled over to drop off the passenger. A train is running the next lane so I'm forced to stop my car in the intersection. 3-5 seconds later, the taxi started to move and I followed it. So what? Well... the very next moment, a traffic camera on the roadside gave us a yellow flash, respectively. Looks like I got caught on the camera(yellow light running?). My mistake!

here's the deal; if this was a rental, the car rental company will pass the fine on to you, the fine is determined by the elapsed time when the light turnied red and when the camera flashed plus your speed. since your speed will be slow, it would be obvious you were stuck in the intersection. regardless you'll get hit with a fine, i'm guessing about 55 euros (or about $70 in "real money";) ) that's a fact. :(
but consider had you ran the light 14 seconds after turning red and speeding thru it, you'd lose your license in Germany, only can guess what they would have done with a rental. :confused:

I was not aware, that you can even loose your license. But it's true! I search with Google for "Rotlichtsünder", and yes, you can loose your license. I assume, however, all you get is a fine as outlined by ZCini, which is actually bad enough.

"...ran the light 14 seconds after turning red..." I guess it should read "...after turning yellow..."
I would recommend to bring some old license plates for the rental car and wear a mask ...:D

I should've been more specific.
1: "Pace down" was temporary, cruising speed on the left lane is 130Km/h or so and then decelerated to 60km/h as approaching the area and then resumed the original speed. "Temporary creeping" might be suitable. My first impression was speed trap.

2: The velocity should be 10-15km/h when I got flashed, right after that I glanced the signal in the rear view mirror shows yellow.

So can someone explain the police officer on the side of the road?

I thought Autobahn is famous for having no speed limit :confused:

A note on the cameras:

Some of them don't have film in them (due to budgetary constraints). Not every flash equals a ticket. Sometimes the polizei put them out for a deterrent factor. But, more have film in them than don't.

Not on all of them.. and the certainly have speed limits on
several streatches.

BS... they're all digital and linked to a central monitoring station.

Don't want to be quite as harsh as you were and I really don't know tons about it, however...

BS. Not all are linked. Some use CF-memory cards or other storage and are not network linked, and most mobile cams are set up and the data is taken for evaluation after breaking down the cam trap.

It's a big industry involving lots of states and companies, so it's not as cut-and-dried as any of us might think.

I'd suggest to ask some locals. :rolleyes:

Some of them ARE fake, some of them blitz without taking pictures, most are real.

Sounds familiar! I bet we're living on the same planet.

Honestly though, I don't want to spend my luck with not paying just a 55 Euros. Besides, this is completely my mistake.(Should've stopped before enter the intersection) Thanks anyway!

Thank you ^

This is what black electrical tape is for. !!! Make an 8 out of a 3, or an E out of an F. Works great on a rental car, especially if you only have it for less than a week. They'll never trace it back to you

Not that I would ever do that, but it has been done before....:eek:

Not possible anymore with the "new" German plates. The fonts are designed so you can't change one letter into another one...

SmilingBoy.

We also noticed the brake slamming on sections of the Autobahn. I'm sure there are those more in the know that I, but I am always happy to throw in my 2 cents. As I understand, there are speed limits on some sections and "permanent" speed traps on the roadways. We didn't notice them, but our friends pointed out the tell-tale boxes on the side of the road that are painted to blend in with the surroundings.

Generally the speed limit slows down going near towns, sometimes near or at an autobahnkreuz, always in work zones (and the narrowing lanes can be treacherous at high speeds), and in other higher traffic areas.

Do not even think of doing it. This is a serious criminal offence and it might prolong your stay in Germany (Urkundenfälschung)

The highway police drive "undercover" regular cars (but all equipped inside, of course), so they can be anywhere/anyone on the Autobahn, even in a RV, truck or bus. Beware! The fact that you don't see them, doesn't mean they aren't there.

Also, as I posted in some other FT forum (can't find it anymore), tailgating is a very bad thing to do in Germany. One can have their license confiscated for several months for doing that. The car in front of the tailgater also gets a fine for not giving way, on the left lane.

Some clarifications:

1) Rothschönberg is one of the most notorious places to get a speeding tickets. In general if people suddenly slow down in union it mens that there are cameras.

2) You got caught running a red light. Within the first three seconds of the pahse it is a Euro 80 ticket, after that it goes up and you get three points.

3) There are cameras not equipped. However you never know which on is active, as they move around the equipment (a camera is $100.000 plus). If it flashes you are caught though.

4) On the autobahn oyu better go 130 plus on the left lane. Actually the law says you need to move to the left at all times if there is space. I actually enjoy going >200 as I kow that the people follow the rules (informal and formal)

5) Drafting in Germany will cost your your license and a stiff fine on the spot. The unmarked cars follow you with a camera for quite a while up to 15 minutes and then pull you over. (They often don't have light, but will pass oyu and then indicate to pull over. NOT fun.

This is why driving in Europe is infinitely preferable to driving in the US. See OMNI thread on agressive drivers.

Sorry, law says, you have to move to the right, if there is space. Left lane should be overtaking only. However, starting from 180+ I usually stay left and move only to the right if somebody is faster than me and I don't want to speed up. Most time if I see somebody coming from back faster than me, I start driving up to 250. Normally this clears the situation:D

Hopefully your guardian angel and the laws of physics are as fast as you....

Lawyer, believe me. It is more safe to speed up on a German Autobahn with 160 mph than the boring ( and therefore dangerous ) thing in the US.

Angels are fast ;)

250 is fun but not really safe...

You are right, Mennix, the US highways are not really better, especially all that crazy lane changing in front and after the toll booths...

I don't understand those people who don't have EZ Pass or the equivalent system somewhere else...

But that's off topic to the toll free German Autobahn ^

A couple of observations from my 4 years of business travel to Bavaria:

All autobahns have speed zones somewhere along their length - either due to construction or where there have been historically high incidences of accidents - so anyone thinking that the autobahns are simply wide open unregulated should abandon that idea.

Many autobahns -especially the older ones (A3 from Frankfurt to Nuremberg for instance) are only two lanes in each direction which means that while in theory you may drive at high speeds, the volume of traffic combined with slower folks overtaking transport trucks means that in all likelihood you will rarely be able to sustain high speeds on several autobahns. Some have been widened and upgraded (A9 between Munich and Nuremberg for instance) to three lanes in each direction. In which case it is possible to sustain high speeds for much longer periods - particularly south from Nuremberg until the speed zone near exit 57 (Greding) at which point you will be restricted to 100kmh.

I have found that by and large the drivers know and obey the rules of the road including moving over to the right to make way for faster traffic overtaking on the left.

It pays to turn on the traffic management service on your car radio. These regular bulletins keep you apprised of construction zones (baustelle) and traffic jams (stau) or accidents and will tell you which detour (umleitung) to use to get around the particular stoppage.

If you are uncomfortable travelling fast on the autobahns, but must travel by car, remember that the right lane is rarely faster than 100-110kmh by virtue of the many trucks and busses which are required by law to travel in the right lane. This lane should be just fine for all of the nervous nellies.

Be aware that many autobahns do have speed regulations between 2200hrs and 0600hrs in the morning, even in the areas that are wide open in daylight.

Basic ettiquette: (1) don't flash your headlights at a slower moving car ahead in your lane. Some people turn on their left turn signal which indicates you would like to pass on the left - but be aware and be ready to move over to the right to allow faster traffic through. (2) Should you come up suddenly on slower traffic in your lane it is common to immediately activate your hazard lights to warn the fast moving traffic behind you that there is a sudden change in speeds. Many people do this and then switch off once more traffic has come up behind them. (3) Don't dive from the inside lane to the exit lane - as happens in North America quite often. Do your map recce ahead of time and know the name and number of your exit and then get over to the right lane a good kilometre beforehand.

cheers, and gute fahrt

MWAC

Some more observations:

Very few exits have advance signs indicating that they are ahead a few kilometres - usually only the kreutz (where two Autobahns cross), or major airports have signs which indicate the approaching exit. Instead it is more common to post large overhead signs with the mileage (in kms) to the next three city/exits. Exits are numbered but not indicated on the mileage signs - usually only numbered right at the exit itself. Read your map ahead of time.

All autobahns are signed with white lettering on blue boards, all secondary or "B" highways are signed with black lettering on yellow boards. Generally odd numbered autobahns go north south while even numbered autobahns are oriented east-west. If you happen to be winding your way around the backwoods of Germany, you will find that at nearly every town, the direction to the nearest autobahn is signed, sometimes with only a blue arrow board with the white autobahn icon on it, or sometimes with more information, including the name of the destination city on it.

Almost all medium to large cities have prominently marked signs indicating the direction to the downtown area from the Autobahn - "Zentrum", "Altstadt" etc. Black lettering on white background, often in the form of an arrow. Additionally, many cities have ring roads. Often at the the entrance to the ring road you will find a large sign which shows the ring road and the various city districts and often the location of parking garages - very useful for orienting yourself and finding a parking spot.

Many cities also indicate via a digital sign, how many free parking spots remain at each garage or surface lot. If you receive a parking fine, you may be charged an administrative fee from the rental agency but rarely do the municipal authorities bother to track you down to deliver the actual ticket to your address in North America (two and counting :) ).

If you are renting - rent a diesel fueled vehicle - it is cheaper than petrol and generally gets much better gas mileage than petrol fueled vehicles.

cheers, MWAC

miserablewithAC great work ^ ^ ^

As a german it is very funny and interesting to read your abservations...

miserablewithAC;
Great info, but shouldn't you also warn people about the "ghostriders"?
From what I understand Ghostriders are people who, somehow got on the Autobahn and travel into oncoming traffic. :confused:


Or maybe Supermasterphil could explain about them in a little more depth.

yeah, ghostriders oder "Geisterfahrer" how they are called in german are people who accidently enter an Autobahn in the false direction...

Most of the times nothing happens because as soon as people find out that they are going the false direction they try to get on the breakdown lane but once in a while very serious accidents happen and people get killed.
That's a disadvantage of toll free highways... That wouldn't happen if people would have to go through toll booths..

Anyway don't be afraid of them, I never met one in 22 years on the Autobahn (4 years of driving and the rest being a passenger) and the radio stations are very good in reporting about them, they stop the music and warn everybody as soon as one get reported...

By the way: they have a joke in Germany: "Attention, Attention, this is radio XY! We stop our program to warn you because of a ghostrider on the Autobahn A3 between Cologne and Frankfurt! The guy listening to the radio is upset saying: One ghostrider? There are hundreds of them... "

I know not the best joke but fits to the topic...

I have never actually encountered a 'ghostrider' in my years of travel to Germany - but then I never inquired as to the causes of a couple of outstanding wrecks in the opposite lanes that I passed. I had extraordinary luck for about 3 years in that all of the automobile accidents I encountered had all occurred on the other side of the dividing barrier - until March 2005.

I had spent the day (a sunday) at Hohenschwangau and Neuschwanstein and then wandered north towards Augsburg and the A8. When I left the south it was a clear sunny day, but as I entered the A8 towards Munich, it began to snow - big wet fluffy flakes. Being Canadian I am somewhat used to this sort of weather so I didn't think much of it. At Kreutz Neufahrn I could see that traffic was moving slowly northwards on the A9 but in my hubris I decided to exit the A8 and join the A9. At that exact moment, the traffic management bulletin cut into the CD I was listening to and basically said - if you are anywhere in Bavaria, avoid the A9 as it was backed up from Ingolstadt Sud to - you guessed it - Kreutz Neufahrn. By that time I was committed and could not get off to take a detour (U). 64 Km of 'Gestoppen'! 5 hours later I made it to Ingolstadt and from there it was clear sailing.

Apparently the road had iced over ahead of the traffic maintenance crews getting out - so there was a crust of ice combined with one or more impatient and fast drivers with the result that just near Ingolstadt Sud, there had been a tremendous pileup - too many cars to count plus a couple of large transport trucks. It was a big enough wreck to make the news that night.

Important safety tip. Germany simply doesn't experience the type of winter driving conditions which pertain in Canada and thus their highway maintenance crews are not as efficient at getting out ahead of the weather and sanding or salting the roads. They do sort it out after the snow has fallen, but a major snow storm seems to take them by surprise. If you are travelling in southern Germany after Christmas and up to March you can experience icy driving conditions.

My rule of thumb is this - if you leave a major city on a Friday - pack a sandwhich and bottle of water. If you leave during inclement weather, do the same. There are plenty of rest stops, but if there is a stau or accident stoppage, those rest stops will fill up very quickly. Likewise if you are returning to a major city on a Sunday - be prepared for frequent staus.

cheers MWAC

Two years of driving in Deutschland and I never experienced a ghostrider, either. I would think it would be difficult to get on the wrong way, but I always stayed alert when I drove there, so maybe that has something to do with it. My stau avoidance technique? Deutsche Bahn!

miserablewithAC, you are right once in a while things like that happen and traffic jams occur...

Maybe it's because it is different than in the US and not every school and public institution closes down because of two snow flakes? Not everybody has a gas wasting and for 99,9% of all occasions useless SUV like in "other" places of the world? There is just one situation some SUVs have advantages... If there is a snow storm...
Furthermore authorities in Germany are more sensitive about the environment and don't use salt if it is not really neccessary. Trucks I guess are the biggest problems because when it is icy they can hardly do any hills and get stuck. These stuck trucks mess up all the highways.

In my opinion if it not snowing too much, it's better to just let the snow sit on the streets. If they take it away there is always a thin ice tier left behind which really makes the street dangerous. A few inches of snow never hurt anybody and people out there who don't know how to drive in rain and snow, please do me a favor and just stay home... There is really no need to slow down to walking speed if it is just snowing a little bit... :D

Of course, take care and save driving to all of you, especially in winter...

Are there any cars in *without* navigation system in Germany?^

All exits are signaled in the exact same way (German love for rules and conventions): sign with exit number and name 1km from exit, sign with localities reachable from exit, as well as name of next exit at 500m from exit, sign to the side with three diagonal bars at 300m, sign with two diagonal bars at 200m, sign with one diagonal bar at 100m (and I believe this one repeats the exit number), sign with names of localities at beginning of deceleration lane, and arrow with the word "Ausfahrt" right at exit. 1km should be plenty of warning when approaching an exit...

Junctions & "triangles" have an additional sign 2km out telling you the name of the junction and the type (ie, junction or triangle).

Indeed you are correct. I was trying to compare (but very badly phrased) the method of indicating exits on the autobahn vice that which pertains in Canada and many US States. I actually like the setup on the autobahn better, but it does take a little while to get used to.

I much prefer driving on the autobahn system to any dual carriageway in Canada or the US (and not simply because of the potential for high speed). I find that they are generally better engineered and much better maintained. Drivers follow the rules of the road, and that predictability must surely contribute to a lower incidence of stress / road rage.

cheers, MWAC

Hm, I guess I won't let you drive. :eek:

No speed limit on German highways !! ^

Actually, there are.
But you are probably driving to fast to spot them.

90 minutes for 160 Km? :rolleyes: That's only about 100 miles.

Even in the States that's not real fast driving. I would expect to make it faster than that in Germany.