Question Concerning COVID and Germany (Schengen)
 

I really have to get to Europe. Probably Germany, but it could be Austria or Holland too. This is for my economic well being. I cannot do a zoom meeting. My business activity involves me actually being there, inspecting, ensuring things are done right, the right people, and executing things correctly. I am also self employed.

I’m wondering if I get on a plane right now, arrived to mainland Europe, and told the border agents that I was there visiting a friend/family member (not untrue) what would happen? I’m a US citizen, and carry a US passport. I’d also self-quarantine and I have no problem with this.

My question boils down to: what happens if I make my way to mainland Europe and get to a border? Can anyone with recent experience (if there is anyone with only US citizenship) give a story of successful entrance or denial?

What makes you think that the airline will let you board the TATL flight if you're not (legally) allowed into the country you'll fly to? For what it's worth, if you tried the reverse and assuming the airline would have let you board, you'd be put on the next available flight back. At the very least, you'll face a 14 days long quarantine in whichever country you arrive to, at your cost. The current Covid-19-related rules are there to be followed by everybody, irrespective of any potential income loss. Millions of people are in the same boat like you! :rolleyes:

You keep asking the same question and the answer has not changed. You will not be permitted to enter Germany, currently, until at least 15 May. It is reasonable to expect for that date to get pushed out.

Details are here:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info...ial_travel.pdf

Unless you are a citizen of German, or have prior established residence, you will not be permitted to enter Germany (or Austria). There are some very few exceptions to this, namely providing an essential service (to Germany, not to yourself), and you don't get to define what constitutes exceptional, and in the event that you need to care for someone who is sick or dying (don't try to fake this.)

There is plenty of information here:

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/f...97140bodyText3

(My bolding)

The determination of whether a journey os essential or not lies with the Bundespolizei, and there is no way to avoid a face-to-face meeting with one of them assuming you are permitted to board the plane. My reading of all of the literature published on this is that private non-essential work does not qualify, and I am certain the border police will send you back, even if you managed to get that far.

You could come up with some crafty plan, such as flying to the UK today (but could get quarantined there), then buying a separate ticket to Germany, but you will not get around a meeting with the border police.

This question gets asked regularly. For the most part, you can expect to be denied boarding at your US or other departure point. At least if you purchase an LH ticket, you get a credit for future travel if denied boarding.

You should also evaluate the consequences to your future prospects of entry to Germany or elsewhere if you have been deemed inadmissible or deported for violating an Order.

Let me qualify what I said earlier after speaking with a friend who works in the foreign ministry.

I have no idea what you do, but let's say you are an expert inspector of turbines, and you are the person most qualified to inspect the turbines installed in a city's municipal water system, you would be granted admission. You'd need to go through some pretty rigorous steps, though. Let's say the mayor of Stuttgart issued a supporting document that stated that they installed special tubings which only NWplatinum of the USA could service, and that service was essential to the citizens of the city of Stuttgart, you'd be admitted to Germany. You would probably need to clear it with the German Embassy in Washington, but it is unlikely you'd be denied boarding and certainly not by the BP once you were on German soil. However, if it is a case of 'I have a contract to look after some stuff that really isn't massively relevant in the bigger picture' (sorry, not trying to be smarmy), then no chance.

Send me a PM if you want to discuss further.

It's interesting that the UK is an outlier. I checked a couple of weeks ago, and there were 130+ countries with travel restrictions in place on entrants. The UK seems to have no such restrictions, you can fly into LHR from pretty much anywhere (COVID-19 hotspots included), and from what I've heard there isn't a great deal of testing being done on arrivals at LHR.

Mind you, this is a country which still tells its citizens that wearing masks is inadvisable. Apparently, requiring that people wear masks - even of the basic paper or cloth mask kind that are totally unsuitable as PPE for medical staff - would suddenly threaten the totemic NHS with PPE shortages. This is not an issue anywhere else in Mainland Europe, because governments apparently realise that the kind of basic masks that ordinary citizens wear aren't displacing the supply of much higher standard masks used by healthcare workers.

UK is in the process of initiating a 14 day quarantine.

Damn far-right Tories, the horse has bolted!

Same question, but, different profession. Private Pilots needing to get to Germany from LAX to turn around and fly a private aircraft back to LAX (same day). Ive reached out to the consulate but havent heard back on this.

Don’t get your hopes up to get a response. LondonElite Yes, I have been asking this question a lot because things are literally changing week by week, and day by day. So I’m curious if people have any experiences to share? On Monday Colorado is suppose to open up. Georgia has opened. I’m not in Europe, so I don’t know what’s going on there. The rules and deadlines are constantly changing faster than published public information. So the best is to go straight to the source. From what I heard, Latvia has closed their borders till the end of the year? We are in a constantly changing time that is unprecedented. I appreciate the advice you gave up thread.

but given this importance for me, I’ll probably continue asking this question again in a few weeks to see what’s changed, and people can give some experiences and definitive information. Given this is the first time in history something of this magnitude has happened, desperate times call for desperate measures.... Again I appreciate anyone’s help in sharing the constantly changing environment you’re in.

That's a tricky one. Are you employed as a pilot and doing it for money, or are you bringing back your own airplane for fun?

"Transport personnel" is exempted from the EU entry ban, and the wording doesn't imply you have to be transporting essential goods. So in theory, you should be able to travel if you are employed as a pilot and going to fly the plane.

(*) Note that I am not a lawyer.

Individual in question is an employed private pilot, going to FRA to bring back a US registered Gulfstream owned by a US citizen who will be on board. I saw that as well, Im more curious what proof would need to be furnished?

At the moment the date is mid-May. The sense I get is that this will be extended, rather than shortened, but as you say it is quite fluid at present. Any arrivals should expect to self-isolate/quarantine, at their own expense, for two weeks upon arrival. That will undoubtedly run well into June.

I really don't know about this one. The US citizen owner is currently in Germany waiting for a pilot to come from the US to fly him back? And is just waiting for his pilot in the US to be given the ok to come to Germany? My gut feeling is no, but it is an odd case.

You have to realize that the world (and the human race) existed long before you were born. ;) Without going back to the times of the Justinian Plague or the Black Death (combined, more than one hundred million deaths), just take a quick look at what kind of "significant" flu pandemics there were during the last 100 years:
* 1918-1920 Spanish flu: ~500 million cases, ~50 million deaths worldwide.
* 1957-1958 Asian flu: ~2 million deaths worldwide.
* 1968-1969 Hong Kong flu: ~ 1million deaths worldwide.
* 2008-2009 Swine flu: 150-500 thousand.
* 2019-2020 Covid-19: as of today 207,265 deaths.
Add to those cholera, typhus, tuberculosis, malaria and a few more, and you get the picture: In 2016 the global burden of all kinds of infections was 471,092.000 DALYs (Disease-Adjusted-Life-Years lost), a value that takes into consideration deaths, and both long-term and short-term incapacitation. This is 17.65% of the total DALYs lost to all causes, diseases, wars, crime, accidents, etc.!

The biggest difference from all previous pandemics is the speed of information transfer...

My gut feeling is that it should work. He needs a written proof (pilot's license and maybe a written order from his employer to bring back the plane). This is purely from the coronavirus perspective - I don't know what documents are needed by an U. S. private pilot in general to fly in Germany.

Maybe worth giving the German Federal Police responsible for the border control in FRA a call (+49 69 34004999). Don't know how well they speak English though.

Another thing to be concerned is whether the airline bringing him to Germany would let him board at all - again maybe worth checking with them.

I suspect it could make a difference whether the pilot is an actual employee versus a freelancer. He says employee and doesn't specify whether it's a corporate jet (where he might be an employee of the corporation) or an individually owned aircraft (where he might be employed by the owner, do freelance work for the owner, or be employed or function as a freelancer for some company that services private aircraft and provides crew for them). In the latter case, as well as the corporate jet and corporate employee case, I would expect the corporation or private aircraft servicing company to be responsible for checking entry requirements, providing documents, and making any applicable arrangements in advance.

I'm trying to imagine circumstances that would have a USA private aircraft on the ground so long in Germany during this time. Someone doing specialized medical treatment not available in the USA (would that be optional) or a long visit to a specialized spa? (Wealthy) private individual with a foreign residence, dual citizenship, or European spouse? I don't think a rock star or celebrity athlete would stay away from home in one place for so long.

Just as an update, I was able to get clarification directly from the Border Force at FRA. Provided pilots remain in transit area (dont clear customs) they will be allowed to clear with normal documents and flight plans for return flight. The only thing that is unclear is how they will reach the aircraft parked at the FBO. I was able to get clearance for them to use the transit hotel at FRA to get the required rest.

This is good news. Just remember that if he is flying commercial to Germany, he'll also need to convince the airline to let him board his flight to Germany. So he needs supporting documents for that too.


Have you tried contacting the FBO about it and asking? They probably know how to arrange this (or whom to contact). It's probably easier to get it done this way than trying to find the right contact at Fraport (the Frankfurt airport operator), which is not a very efficient organization.

I don’t think you understand what I meant when I said “first.” Our world has never been as globalized as it is now. During the “Spanish Flu” as an example you couldn’t hop on a plane and go from Beijing to LAX, and depart the same day you arrived non-stop.

None of the pandemics you listed had a global shut down to EVERY state and facet of the developed world, and turned all our countries into hermit states.

This is the first time in history when commerce- the entire world- is at a total standstill. The entire developed world has been ordered to stay indoors, and essentially not leave your residence except for health, or another reason of necessity. THIS pandemic and the ramifications of it are a first for history.

I did understand the meaning of what you wrote. I wrote my last sentence to show what the reason for this "first" was. Does anybody (other than professionals in the field) know that in the year 2000 there were more than 28 million cases of measles resulting in 535,000 deaths? (They were down to ~150,000 in 2018, the newest figures are not yet out). So, it's not the pandemic and its severity that is a first, it's the reaction to it. As a matter of fact, without the social media presenting a great platform for the spread of fake news, conspiracy theories, etc., there may have been more children vaccinated against measles and the number of deaths might have been lower. Who knows...

For that “private pilot” trying to get to Germany let us know what happens I am curious.

Also it looks like Germany is opening things back up May 4th. Though with the social safety nets they have there, I’m assuming people aren’t as eager to get back to work as Americans. (Then again they are Germans...)

Anyway, my flight is booked for June 2nd to Germany and I’m assuming it wIll operate but I’m not expecting anything.

The foreign ministry has just announced that its travel advisory for Germans traveling outside the country will be extended until at least 14 June. Now, this is not the same thing as extending the entry restrictions, but it is reasonable to assume these will follow in lockstep. Your comment about eagerness to get back to work was unnecessary. Let me assure you, everyone is eager to get back to business.

Thank you for that information.

Condor canceling flights to the US until June 27 makes more sense now. I had to rebook everything so thanks for bringing this up. When the German government announces something, please feel free to post it.

One other question: I read somewhere Belgium is opening their international borders. If I get into Schengen, can I get into Germany without a passport check or being denied entry.

No, German land borders are closed with the same restrictions as posted above.

Correction; the border with Belgium is open but the restrictions on entering Germany remain the same as above. You are not permitted to enter. Doing so for anything other than the permitted reasons will have consequences.

Documentation showing employment as a pilot and credible indication of being a pilot operating a private repatriation flight that is going back to where it came from in rather short order would probably fly ok on arrival.

I thought they kept their land border with Holland and one other country open. Meaning no stops to enter if you go by land from Holland to Germany (and I forgot if it was Belgium or Luxembourg too?)

It is common for BP checks to occur at all land borders in normal times (illegal immigration controls). At the moment it is a certainty that at all land borders there will be BP stationed and possibly inspecting cars. These checks sometimes occur as much as 30km inland.

For your plan to work, you’d have to get into Belgium or the Netherlands, rent a car or take the train across the border, and hope that you are not subject to a random check. If you are checked, you will most likely be deported immediately, given a fine, and possibly restricted from entering Germany in the future. The decision rests with the BP. This all ignores whatever quarantine you’d be subject to. This could all change in two weeks, but I see many flaws with this plan. The risk, of course, is yours.

So what happened to this 14-day quarantine that you claimed the UK was in the process of initiating?

The consensus on that is that it was leaked to two newspapers as a test ballon that popped.

Would that be Torygraph and Mail perhaps?

Correct

No, while Germany has not closed the border to Belgium like they did with France, Denmark, Luxemburg, Austria and Switzerland the border is not open to non-essential travel and border controls are in place. The Belgian police will only let German citizens leave Belgium but not let them enter Belgium. This rule is in place until May 8th but I think the will extend it.

Traveling to Europe for is only allowed for EU, UK, Swiss, Lichtenstein, Norwegian, Iclandic citiziens or people having residence permit of are a family member of such a citizens. In addition the right of free movement within Schengen is mostly temporarily suspended. This rules is in place until May 15th. We have to see what will happen in the next week.

German industry never shut down, the only thing that closed was travel, retail, automotive and restaurants. Unlike America, where 70% of GDP is driven by consumer sentiment, German Manufacturing drives the economy and stayed open. What is coming online this week is school, retail and some services. International longhaul travel is very unlikely to resume until late summer.

Having given this a bit more thought, it should be clear that the strategy of entering Germany via Belgium or the Netherlands is doomed to failure, unless there is a complete relaxation of rules in the near future.

Firstly, at some point if you are going to get into Schengen, you'll get a Schengen stamp in your passport. To get in to Germany via these two countries (presumably with the car you rented), you'd have to hope that the border is open on both sides and you are not stopped, especially on the German side. As I've said above, that is not guaranteed. You'd then have to hope that you are not stopped by police during your entire time in Germany. With a foreign license plate, I'm not sure you can avoid that. And the hotel you stay in will probably ask for your passport. At some point you're going to have to leave Schengen. You won't be able to do it from Germany (the BP at the airport will see your entry stamp from when you were not permitted to travel to Germany, you'd then have to lie about when you entered Germany, possibly having to show evidence of this, which you won't be able to) or tell the truth and face the consequences. Which means you'll need to go back to where you came from, which in turn means crossing the border again.

I think you need to face the fact that this trip will not be possible until non-essential travel is once again permitted.

Not to mention that all hotels in Germany are currently closed for leisure travellers ;)

Well, and that small detail too!

Not so anymore. Germany is opening hotels May 28-30, business associates there told me today. I’m wondering if the German border will be easy (easier?) to get into when hotels open, especially if you self-quarantine? I’d just wonder if I have a month long hotel stay, they’ll allow me to enter and tell me to self-quarantine which I am happy to do. I really wonder if there’s a way to talk your way into the country assuming you have a negative COVID test to prove your health. Then with a long duration hotel booked will self quarantine?

Until border restrictions are lifted (absolutely zero talk about that now) there is no way of blagging your way into the country.