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Question Concerning COVID and Germany (Schengen)

Question Concerning COVID and Germany (Schengen)

Old Apr 26, 20, 7:08 am
  #1  
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Question Concerning COVID and Germany (Schengen)

I really have to get to Europe. Probably Germany, but it could be Austria or Holland too. This is for my economic well being. I cannot do a zoom meeting. My business activity involves me actually being there, inspecting, ensuring things are done right, the right people, and executing things correctly. I am also self employed.

Iím wondering if I get on a plane right now, arrived to mainland Europe, and told the border agents that I was there visiting a friend/family member (not untrue) what would happen? Iím a US citizen, and carry a US passport. Iíd also self-quarantine and I have no problem with this.

My question boils down to: what happens if I make my way to mainland Europe and get to a border? Can anyone with recent experience (if there is anyone with only US citizenship) give a story of successful entrance or denial?
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Old Apr 26, 20, 7:58 am
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What makes you think that the airline will let you board the TATL flight if you're not (legally) allowed into the country you'll fly to? For what it's worth, if you tried the reverse and assuming the airline would have let you board, you'd be put on the next available flight back. At the very least, you'll face a 14 days long quarantine in whichever country you arrive to, at your cost. The current Covid-19-related rules are there to be followed by everybody, irrespective of any potential income loss. Millions of people are in the same boat like you!
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Old Apr 26, 20, 8:41 am
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You keep asking the same question and the answer has not changed. You will not be permitted to enter Germany, currently, until at least 15 May. It is reasonable to expect for that date to get pushed out.

Details are here:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info...ial_travel.pdf

Unless you are a citizen of German, or have prior established residence, you will not be permitted to enter Germany (or Austria). There are some very few exceptions to this, namely providing an essential service (to Germany, not to yourself), and you don't get to define what constitutes exceptional, and in the event that you need to care for someone who is sick or dying (don't try to fake this.)

There is plenty of information here:

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/f...97140bodyText3

The Federal Minister of the Interior urges citizens not to travel unless it is absolutely essential. Travellers without an urgent reason for travel are no longer permitted to enter or leave Germany. This also applies to travellers with symptoms that could indicate infection with the coronavirus. In such cases, the necessary measures will be initiated in coordination with the health authorities.Cross-border travel for urgent reasons (such as medical treatment or death of a family member) will be allowed on a case-by-case basis, regardless of nationality. EU citizens (including UK citizens), citizens of Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Norway and Iceland and their families, as well as nationals of non-EU countries returning to their country of origin or country of residence (for which they have a long-term residence permit) are allowed to travel through Germany to reach their destination or their place of residence in Germany.

The cross-border flow of goods and cross-border travel or transit for work purposes or to carry out professional contractual services is permitted, regardless of nationality (including for commuters, members of the European Parliament and accredited diplomats). In such cases, the need to cross the border for work must be proved by carrying appropriate documentation (e.g. work contract, project contract/documents, permit for frontier workers).

But travel for tourist purposes by non-EU nationals with a Schengen visa is no longer permitted. Whether to continue operating cross-border public transport (local and regional) is a matter for the relevant federal states to decide.

The decision of whether a personal journey is an urgent ground for crossing the border is at the discretion of the border official.
(My bolding)

The determination of whether a journey os essential or not lies with the Bundespolizei, and there is no way to avoid a face-to-face meeting with one of them assuming you are permitted to board the plane. My reading of all of the literature published on this is that private non-essential work does not qualify, and I am certain the border police will send you back, even if you managed to get that far.

You could come up with some crafty plan, such as flying to the UK today (but could get quarantined there), then buying a separate ticket to Germany, but you will not get around a meeting with the border police.
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Old Apr 26, 20, 9:24 am
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This question gets asked regularly. For the most part, you can expect to be denied boarding at your US or other departure point. At least if you purchase an LH ticket, you get a credit for future travel if denied boarding.

You should also evaluate the consequences to your future prospects of entry to Germany or elsewhere if you have been deemed inadmissible or deported for violating an Order.
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Old Apr 26, 20, 10:47 am
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Let me qualify what I said earlier after speaking with a friend who works in the foreign ministry.

I have no idea what you do, but let's say you are an expert inspector of turbines, and you are the person most qualified to inspect the turbines installed in a city's municipal water system, you would be granted admission. You'd need to go through some pretty rigorous steps, though. Let's say the mayor of Stuttgart issued a supporting document that stated that they installed special tubings which only NWplatinum of the USA could service, and that service was essential to the citizens of the city of Stuttgart, you'd be admitted to Germany. You would probably need to clear it with the German Embassy in Washington, but it is unlikely you'd be denied boarding and certainly not by the BP once you were on German soil. However, if it is a case of 'I have a contract to look after some stuff that really isn't massively relevant in the bigger picture' (sorry, not trying to be smarmy), then no chance.

Send me a PM if you want to discuss further.
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Old Apr 26, 20, 11:08 am
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It's interesting that the UK is an outlier. I checked a couple of weeks ago, and there were 130+ countries with travel restrictions in place on entrants. The UK seems to have no such restrictions, you can fly into LHR from pretty much anywhere (COVID-19 hotspots included), and from what I've heard there isn't a great deal of testing being done on arrivals at LHR.

Mind you, this is a country which still tells its citizens that wearing masks is inadvisable. Apparently, requiring that people wear masks - even of the basic paper or cloth mask kind that are totally unsuitable as PPE for medical staff - would suddenly threaten the totemic NHS with PPE shortages. This is not an issue anywhere else in Mainland Europe, because governments apparently realise that the kind of basic masks that ordinary citizens wear aren't displacing the supply of much higher standard masks used by healthcare workers.
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Old Apr 26, 20, 11:24 am
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UK is in the process of initiating a 14 day quarantine.
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Old Apr 26, 20, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by LondonElite View Post
UK is in the process of initiating a 14 day quarantine.
Damn far-right Tories, the horse has bolted!
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Old Apr 26, 20, 5:01 pm
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Same question, but, different profession. Private Pilots needing to get to Germany from LAX to turn around and fly a private aircraft back to LAX (same day). Ive reached out to the consulate but havent heard back on this.
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Old Apr 26, 20, 5:35 pm
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Originally Posted by DLATL777 View Post
Same question, but, different profession. Private Pilots needing to get to Germany from LAX to turn around and fly a private aircraft back to LAX (same day). Ive reached out to the consulate but havent heard back on this.
Donít get your hopes up to get a response. LondonElite Yes, I have been asking this question a lot because things are literally changing week by week, and day by day. So Iím curious if people have any experiences to share? On Monday Colorado is suppose to open up. Georgia has opened. Iím not in Europe, so I donít know whatís going on there. The rules and deadlines are constantly changing faster than published public information. So the best is to go straight to the source. From what I heard, Latvia has closed their borders till the end of the year? We are in a constantly changing time that is unprecedented. I appreciate the advice you gave up thread.

but given this importance for me, Iíll probably continue asking this question again in a few weeks to see whatís changed, and people can give some experiences and definitive information. Given this is the first time in history something of this magnitude has happened, desperate times call for desperate measures.... Again I appreciate anyoneís help in sharing the constantly changing environment youíre in.
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Old Apr 26, 20, 5:57 pm
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Originally Posted by DLATL777 View Post
Same question, but, different profession. Private Pilots needing to get to Germany from LAX to turn around and fly a private aircraft back to LAX (same day). Ive reached out to the consulate but havent heard back on this.
That's a tricky one. Are you employed as a pilot and doing it for money, or are you bringing back your own airplane for fun?

"Transport personnel" is exempted from the EU entry ban, and the wording doesn't imply you have to be transporting essential goods. So in theory, you should be able to travel if you are employed as a pilot and going to fly the plane.

(*) Note that I am not a lawyer.
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Old Apr 26, 20, 6:10 pm
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Originally Posted by cockpitvisit View Post
That's a tricky one. Are you employed as a pilot and doing it for money, or are you bringing back your own airplane for fun?

"Transport personnel" is exempted from the EU entry ban, and the wording doesn't imply you have to be transporting essential goods. So in theory, you should be able to travel if you are employed as a pilot and going to fly the plane.

(*) Note that I am not a lawyer.
Individual in question is an employed private pilot, going to FRA to bring back a US registered Gulfstream owned by a US citizen who will be on board. I saw that as well, Im more curious what proof would need to be furnished?
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Old Apr 27, 20, 1:31 am
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Originally Posted by NWplatinum View Post
Donít get your hopes up to get a response. LondonElite Yes, I have been asking this question a lot because things are literally changing week by week, and day by day. So Iím curious if people have any experiences to share? On Monday Colorado is suppose to open up. Georgia has opened. Iím not in Europe, so I donít know whatís going on there. The rules and deadlines are constantly changing faster than published public information. So the best is to go straight to the source. From what I heard, Latvia has closed their borders till the end of the year? We are in a constantly changing time that is unprecedented. I appreciate the advice you gave up thread.

but given this importance for me, Iíll probably continue asking this question again in a few weeks to see whatís changed, and people can give some experiences and definitive information. Given this is the first time in history something of this magnitude has happened, desperate times call for desperate measures.... Again I appreciate anyoneís help in sharing the constantly changing environment youíre in.
At the moment the date is mid-May. The sense I get is that this will be extended, rather than shortened, but as you say it is quite fluid at present. Any arrivals should expect to self-isolate/quarantine, at their own expense, for two weeks upon arrival. That will undoubtedly run well into June.
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Old Apr 27, 20, 1:34 am
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Originally Posted by DLATL777 View Post
Individual in question is an employed private pilot, going to FRA to bring back a US registered Gulfstream owned by a US citizen who will be on board. I saw that as well, Im more curious what proof would need to be furnished?
I really don't know about this one. The US citizen owner is currently in Germany waiting for a pilot to come from the US to fly him back? And is just waiting for his pilot in the US to be given the ok to come to Germany? My gut feeling is no, but it is an odd case.
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Old Apr 27, 20, 4:43 am
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Originally Posted by NWplatinum View Post
...{long snip}...Given this is the first time in history something of this magnitude has happened, desperate times call for desperate measures...{snip}...
You have to realize that the world (and the human race) existed long before you were born. Without going back to the times of the Justinian Plague or the Black Death (combined, more than one hundred million deaths), just take a quick look at what kind of "significant" flu pandemics there were during the last 100 years:
* 1918-1920 Spanish flu: ~500 million cases, ~50 million deaths worldwide.
* 1957-1958 Asian flu: ~2 million deaths worldwide.
* 1968-1969 Hong Kong flu: ~ 1million deaths worldwide.
* 2008-2009 Swine flu: 150-500 thousand.
* 2019-2020 Covid-19: as of today 207,265 deaths.
Add to those cholera, typhus, tuberculosis, malaria and a few more, and you get the picture: In 2016 the global burden of all kinds of infections was 471,092.000 DALYs (Disease-Adjusted-Life-Years lost), a value that takes into consideration deaths, and both long-term and short-term incapacitation. This is 17.65% of the total DALYs lost to all causes, diseases, wars, crime, accidents, etc.!

The biggest difference from all previous pandemics is the speed of information transfer...
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