Driving FAST! should I worry?
#31
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Join Date: May 1998
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Driving FAST! should I worry?
Which rental company you use also matters (assuming these fines will be pursue from non-EU violators). When I rented from Sixt, they photocopied my passport. Hertz and Avis only asked to see my drivers license (did not photocopy).
Didn't slow down fast enough as the speed limit went from 80 to 60. Was caught at 83 around 12:30AM.
A month later, Sixt charged an administrative fee. Good thing about the Sixt website is that they make the letter available online. 3 weeks after that, I got a letter from the authorities (I live in the US). I ignored it (yes, I'm now a fugitive). Several weeks after that, I got a second notice. This time the envelope had what appears to be a Deutsche Post return receipt except the US postal service had no idea what it is and left the receipt attached to the envelope. Have not heard from the authorities after that. Since they never got the return receipt back, I'm guessing they believe that got a bogus address from Sixt.
Didn't slow down fast enough as the speed limit went from 80 to 60. Was caught at 83 around 12:30AM.
A month later, Sixt charged an administrative fee. Good thing about the Sixt website is that they make the letter available online. 3 weeks after that, I got a letter from the authorities (I live in the US). I ignored it (yes, I'm now a fugitive). Several weeks after that, I got a second notice. This time the envelope had what appears to be a Deutsche Post return receipt except the US postal service had no idea what it is and left the receipt attached to the envelope. Have not heard from the authorities after that. Since they never got the return receipt back, I'm guessing they believe that got a bogus address from Sixt.
Last edited by seawolf; Dec 6, 2012 at 11:07 am
#33
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 52,709
@seawolf: don't be fooled by the RR left on the envelope, USPS nowadays provides tracking info back to the German postal system. Last year I mailed a camera that a FTer had forgotten in MUC to Illinois by registered mail and saw the delivery info a few weeks later using the German tracking site. Pay the 70 fine and move on...
#34
Original Member




Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
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Driving FAST! should I worry?
Already been back to Germany several times since the ticket. No issues.
And as for return receipt, I don't see how any information is provided given no bar code or numbers are on the return receipt facing the outside of the envelope. All the identifying information is on the side pressed against the envelope.
And as for return receipt, I don't see how any information is provided given no bar code or numbers are on the return receipt facing the outside of the envelope. All the identifying information is on the side pressed against the envelope.
#35
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Driving FAST! should I worry?
Just took another look at the receipt. No article number or bar code whatsoever. This is a old fashion return receipt. The mail carrier was suppose to detach upon delivery and return to Germany.
#37
Moderator: InterContinental Hotels and Germany




Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,199
@seawolf
In this case, I suggest you avoid renting Sixt again, because they have you in their system for sure.
I do not comment on doing something against the law and not taking the responsibility (= paying the fine), but I had the pleasure to hear by a colleague, that Police in Dsseldorf waited for someone from UAE as he picked up a rental car at Dsseldorf Airport. He had open fines for some 350 EUR excluding costs. He had rented again and the rental company had informed the police the renter would pick up the rental car at a certain station and he also had notified the rental agency of his incoming flight. It must been a nice surprise for him to be set back close to 600 EUR after arriving in Germany and his diriving license was suspened for one month and he was not allowed to drive on German streets.
On another occasion police in Munich waited for a US driver who drove with more than 120 km/h where only 60km/h were allowed (city limit) and did not stop as the driver was requested to do so. The rental company informed the local authorities when the rental car was scheduled to be returned and waited for the driver at the airport in MUC.
Beeing lucky once or twice does not mean you are lucky all the way in the future.
In this case, I suggest you avoid renting Sixt again, because they have you in their system for sure.
I do not comment on doing something against the law and not taking the responsibility (= paying the fine), but I had the pleasure to hear by a colleague, that Police in Dsseldorf waited for someone from UAE as he picked up a rental car at Dsseldorf Airport. He had open fines for some 350 EUR excluding costs. He had rented again and the rental company had informed the police the renter would pick up the rental car at a certain station and he also had notified the rental agency of his incoming flight. It must been a nice surprise for him to be set back close to 600 EUR after arriving in Germany and his diriving license was suspened for one month and he was not allowed to drive on German streets.
On another occasion police in Munich waited for a US driver who drove with more than 120 km/h where only 60km/h were allowed (city limit) and did not stop as the driver was requested to do so. The rental company informed the local authorities when the rental car was scheduled to be returned and waited for the driver at the airport in MUC.
Beeing lucky once or twice does not mean you are lucky all the way in the future.
#38
Original Member




Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
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Driving FAST! should I worry?
I have not rented from Sixt since for the reasons stated but I'll find out next week in Munich. Not sure if Bavaria will try to collect a ticket from NRW.
#39
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 52,709
If you just received the second letter so far you are probably not on any watch list yet. Such lists are maintained at a federal level in Germany and the Bavarian state police are known to be the nastiest enforcers of the law. So good luck to you when your ID is checked with a database for some reason 
Immigration cross check your details with the SIS, though I doubt that has records of non criminal offenses.

Immigration cross check your details with the SIS, though I doubt that has records of non criminal offenses.
#40
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Driving FAST! should I worry?
Back from Germany. Non-event. Even rented from Sixt using my membership number.
I'm not a lawyer but I think if they have 3 months to prosecute and 3 years to collect.
Statue of Limitations information (page 10).
German Road Traffic Law
Act on Regulatory Offences
This is how it went down.
Penalty authority sends questionnaire sent out to owner (Sixt). No fine information since this is not the Bußgeldbescheid.
Sixt sends my info to the penalty authority.
Penalty authority sends questionnaire to me. Again, this is not the Bußgeldbescheid.
Penalty authority didn't get response from me and assumes I'm guilty and sends me the Bußgeldbescheid. This had the return receipt. They need the return receipt to prove that they served notice within the 3-month period of offense else statue of limitations runs out in 3 months vs. 6 months from when Bußgeldbescheid was issued.
USPS did not return the return receipt. So it seems to me they can't be sure the Bußgeldbescheid was served.
Bottom line is if you know you're not going to be back in Germany within 3 years, you probably don't need to respond to their correspondence.
I'm not a lawyer but I think if they have 3 months to prosecute and 3 years to collect.
Statue of Limitations information (page 10).
With respect to most traffic law violations § 26 para. 3 StVG (“Straßenverkehrsgesetz”, German Road Traffic Act) calls for a 3-month period only as far as the limitations of prosecution are concerned. The Administrative Fine Order (“Bußgeldbescheid”) has to be issued within a 3-month period. If done, a 6-month period follows before the Statue of Limitations runs out ON CONDITION that the Administrative Fine Order was served within 2 weeks after its issuance (§ 33 No. 9 OWiG).
Act on Regulatory Offences
This is how it went down.
Penalty authority sends questionnaire sent out to owner (Sixt). No fine information since this is not the Bußgeldbescheid.
Sixt sends my info to the penalty authority.
Penalty authority sends questionnaire to me. Again, this is not the Bußgeldbescheid.
Penalty authority didn't get response from me and assumes I'm guilty and sends me the Bußgeldbescheid. This had the return receipt. They need the return receipt to prove that they served notice within the 3-month period of offense else statue of limitations runs out in 3 months vs. 6 months from when Bußgeldbescheid was issued.
USPS did not return the return receipt. So it seems to me they can't be sure the Bußgeldbescheid was served.
Bottom line is if you know you're not going to be back in Germany within 3 years, you probably don't need to respond to their correspondence.
Last edited by seawolf; Dec 6, 2012 at 1:07 am
#41
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany
Programs: Miles & More, Amex
Posts: 678
This is how it went down.
Penalty authority sends questionnaire sent out to owner (Sixt). No fine information since this is not the Bugeldbescheid.
Sixt sends my info to the penalty authority.
Penalty authority sends questionnaire to me. Again, this is not the Bugeldbescheid.
Penalty authority didn't get response from me and assumes I'm guilty and sends me the Bugeldbescheid. This had the return receipt. They need the return receipt to prove that they served notice within the 3-month period of offense else statue of limitations runs out in 3 months vs. 6 months from when Bugeldbescheid was issued.
USPS did not return the return receipt. So it seems to me they can't be sure the Bugeldbescheid was served.
Bottom line is if you know you're not going to be back in Germany within 3 years, you probably don't need to respond to their correspondence.
Penalty authority sends questionnaire sent out to owner (Sixt). No fine information since this is not the Bugeldbescheid.
Sixt sends my info to the penalty authority.
Penalty authority sends questionnaire to me. Again, this is not the Bugeldbescheid.
Penalty authority didn't get response from me and assumes I'm guilty and sends me the Bugeldbescheid. This had the return receipt. They need the return receipt to prove that they served notice within the 3-month period of offense else statue of limitations runs out in 3 months vs. 6 months from when Bugeldbescheid was issued.
USPS did not return the return receipt. So it seems to me they can't be sure the Bugeldbescheid was served.
Bottom line is if you know you're not going to be back in Germany within 3 years, you probably don't need to respond to their correspondence.
#42
Original Member




Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
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Driving FAST! should I worry?
Based on the research above and again, I'm not a lawyer so don't take this as legal advice. This is just a my interpretation. I leave it to you to come to your own conclusion based on the regulations above.
There are two different documents sent. One was to find out who the driver is. The first one is always sent to the owner. It will refer to the law which was broken, has no fine amount and asking for identity of actual driver. This is to identify the person in the photo.
One they get the driver information (or no response) they send the actual fine notice. If they don't issue the fine notice within 3 months, they have to drop the matter. The fine notice, once issued and uncontested (seems like you have a 2 week period) is valid for 3 years. During which time they can collect on the fine, hold your license, or ask a judge to throw you in jail and/or seize your property. (I think this is where a lawyer would come in and ask for proof that the fine notice was issued and served within the statue of limitations.)
As for USPS, again there is zero identifying information on the return receipt facing the outside of the envelope. So unless USPS is using RFID on a return foreign return receipt (when they don't use on US return receipts), I don't see how they can say to Detusche Post, it was delivered. Additionally, the return receipt had a section for addressee delivered to and signature of addressee. This is hard paper proof that the fine notice was served on actual date to person accused but it is here in the US and not in Germany.
One thing to keep in mind is that this process was designed for domestic drivers. It would be difficult not to run into law enforcement within 3 years if you were living there.
Another interesting note is that according to the US State Department, serving notice across borders is governed by treaty. Germany prohibits foreign plaintiffs from serving to a German defendant directly by mail. So if the situation was reversed (German driver with US ticket), the US authority probably can not serve the ticket to the German driver directly through the postal system. It has to go through a process specified by treaty.
There are two different documents sent. One was to find out who the driver is. The first one is always sent to the owner. It will refer to the law which was broken, has no fine amount and asking for identity of actual driver. This is to identify the person in the photo.
One they get the driver information (or no response) they send the actual fine notice. If they don't issue the fine notice within 3 months, they have to drop the matter. The fine notice, once issued and uncontested (seems like you have a 2 week period) is valid for 3 years. During which time they can collect on the fine, hold your license, or ask a judge to throw you in jail and/or seize your property. (I think this is where a lawyer would come in and ask for proof that the fine notice was issued and served within the statue of limitations.)
As for USPS, again there is zero identifying information on the return receipt facing the outside of the envelope. So unless USPS is using RFID on a return foreign return receipt (when they don't use on US return receipts), I don't see how they can say to Detusche Post, it was delivered. Additionally, the return receipt had a section for addressee delivered to and signature of addressee. This is hard paper proof that the fine notice was served on actual date to person accused but it is here in the US and not in Germany.
One thing to keep in mind is that this process was designed for domestic drivers. It would be difficult not to run into law enforcement within 3 years if you were living there.
Another interesting note is that according to the US State Department, serving notice across borders is governed by treaty. Germany prohibits foreign plaintiffs from serving to a German defendant directly by mail. So if the situation was reversed (German driver with US ticket), the US authority probably can not serve the ticket to the German driver directly through the postal system. It has to go through a process specified by treaty.
Last edited by seawolf; Dec 6, 2012 at 7:28 am
#43
Original Member




Join Date: May 1998
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Adding the following so that if the links in post 40 were to be ever be removed, the information can still be Googled.
StVG = Straenverkehrsgesetz = German Road Traffic Act
Bugeldbescheid = Administrative Fine Order
OWiG = Gesetz ber Ordnungswidrigkeiten = Act on Regulatory Offences
Bugeldkatalog = Traffic Fines
PDF document containing fines (in German)
StVG = Straenverkehrsgesetz = German Road Traffic Act
Bugeldbescheid = Administrative Fine Order
OWiG = Gesetz ber Ordnungswidrigkeiten = Act on Regulatory Offences
Bugeldkatalog = Traffic Fines
PDF document containing fines (in German)
#44
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Another interesting note is that according to the US State Department, serving notice across borders is governed by treaty. Germany prohibits foreign plaintiffs from serving to a German defendant directly by mail. So if the situation was reversed (German driver with US ticket), the US authority probably can not serve the ticket to the German driver directly through the postal system. It has to go through a process specified by treaty.
By the way: There are ways to extend the three month period. And there are ways to serve documents on you (if your currents domicile is unknown) validly even without you getting aware of it. WE WILL GET YOU - even without two policemen with a gun


